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A Clean Linux Install?
linux_penguin asks: "I've been using Linux for a few years now, and have only just hit the wall I believe most intermediate users hit at some time... I hate RPM and all of its idiosyncracies, and I hate all the clutter and unnecessary junk most distributions install. I wanted to compile Enlightenment from CVS, and it turned into a major hassle due to RPM dependencies and libraries being spread everywhere. What I would like to achieve is an absolute basic install, and then build the system up slowly with source (with most stuff being installed into /usr/local hopefully, leaving the basic install clean and untouched). I know this is a fairly tall order, but has anyone achieved this to any degree and can anyone give me advice? What's the best distro for *this purpose*? Or am I better off building my box from the ground up, to the point of compiling *everything* from source? I would like to use this as a learning experience to gain greater knowledge of Linux and how it works."
First thing I did was use Debian, imho it has a better packaging system. But I don't think that will solve your problems.
Though debian does come with a resonable base system (~50megs I think). And if you setup your partitions right, you can install your base system, then mount
However, I don't do that, I just use debian, and when I want to compile something from source, I usually create a
eg:
I also do it totally non root, so that there is no chance of me writting over anything else.
The problem comes if you want to install a package that depends on something you compilied yourself. The packaging system doesn't know you have it. When that comes along, I usually just compile the desired program from source, and it finds the libs it needs.
In the end, if you want to use package management, you really need to use it all of the time, or hassels will develop.
One point though. "Alien" is really handy. Its an app that converts between binary tarballs, rpms, and debs. I use it to convert RPMs to Debs all the time. It seems to work okay.
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I use to have a funny sig, but slash cut it off, and I forgot what the punchline was.
You should check out linuxfromscratch.org They tell you how to compile *everything* from source, and you also get instructions on how to create boot scripts, among other things. I just spent the better part of a weekend doing this, and it is a great learning experience. It also gives you a great feeling of control over your system. .nizram
This is the exact reason I started to use FreeBSD. I was tired of all of the extra junk and a coworker mentioned that with FreeBSD, I'd have complete control over everything installed and the dependencies and everything would be handled automatically. It's pure magic.
I know this is off the Linux topic, but I really wish the Linux distro people would take notice.
There was some previous discussion on a similar topic a while back (The Perfect Distribution), where many of us had the same lament. The general concensus seemed to be a minimal Slackware.
My advice, if you don't want package managers, would be to avoid RedHat like the plague. Avoid Debian. Use Slackware, or use the Linux From Scratch resources to make your own distribution. This route is guaranteed to make you happy (in the long run, at least), but is significantly more difficult than just installing an "established" distribution.
Freshmeat has had a few editorials on package managers, incidentally, like The Universal Source Package, which might be of interest to you.
darren
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)
The problem with the FM is that not only does it not tell you how to handle interactions between RPM installs and source installs, there is no way to handle it. If I install Perl from source, every other RPM I install complains that the Perl dependency fails, and I have to install with --nodeps. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Yup, it does.
Most software doesn't come in RPM format, and when it does, it often comes without the required parameters or options. What then?
darren
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)
and put together RPMs yourself. (Or debian packages, as is your preference.)
The increased ability to manage software and keep track of what's there will be worth the added hassle of writing or modifying specs.
Really, I don't understand why everyone hates package managers so much, unless it's because they don't have enough machines to administer. With one machine, it's fine to have a huge mess of binaries, no good means of removing all the files associated with a package, etc. You can stumble along fine, with only a little wasted effort. But when you have more than one machine, the hassle of keeping everything up-to-date makes package managers nearly essential.