Slashdot Mirror


Inside Transmeta

Quite a number of people have written about this story - here, ContinuousPark writes: "IEEE's Spectrum magazine has an interesting article with a step-by-step account on Crusoe's design process. It also talks about how they got the venture capital by creating the term 'code morphing,' how they hired their staff and how is it to work there, among other details."

8 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. Even trickier than we thought by ZetaPotential · · Score: 3

    "Apparently Windows95 still had a lot of old 16-bit code in it, whereas Unix (as well as Windows NT) used a flat memory model with pure 32-bit code. Supporting 16-bit code was something that Transmeta had decided to offload into software... The redesign process added about a year to Transmeta's development time."

    Transmeta would have been done a year ago, except that Win95 was apparently designed so badly that it took them a whole year to get their technology down to that level. Yet another example of Mr. Gates thwarting the competition!

    --
    Unhappy? Kill your television.
  2. Crusoe has substantial merits. by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 3
    But what have they actually got to show for all of their venture capital and demonstrations? Not a lot, just a fair of fancy chips that run at about a quarter of the speed of most chips today. Sure, they use less power, but their performance is a joke, and their oh-so-fancy "code morphing" technology looks a bit overrated since the chips are just running Linux.

    There are a few things that you seem to be overlooking, here:

    • Crusoe chips also run Windows.
      Anyone who feels like dual-booting to Windows on their Crusoe notebook is perfectly free to. They aren't Linux-only. They're emulating the x86 _architecture_, not just a particular operating system.
    • Power consumption is very, very important for notebooks and palmtops.
      If you want to play Quake III, use an Athlon or a Pentium III. Power consumption is not an issue for game machines. However, the Crusoe is not _targetted_ at game machines. There is a vast market for extremely low-power, reasonably good chips for PDAs and notebooks, and this chip looks perfectly targetted to that market.
    • Code morphing gives Transmeta an "in" on Arm and Dragonball territory.
      Most PDAs do not use x86 chips at the moment. You could build a PDA around a Crusoe with x86 binary translation and bash Linux into shape for PDA work - or you could write a new code morphing later for ARM and/or Dragonball emulation, and use PalmOS et. al. without modification.


    Summary: Crusoe does many things well, and is well-targetted for its niche. You seem to be assessing the chip purely from a desktop standpoint, which leads to questionable conclusions.
  3. is it even faster "native"? by swinge · · Score: 3
    Transmeta seems like it must have been a really fun place to work over the past few years. I've been lucky enough to find a few great groups of people to work with, but Transmeta seems to have all the ingredients. I like smart people, I like a large number, and I love it when they bring dinner in! Cool.

    Code morphing looks to be a very clever trick, building support for optimizing compilers into the processor architecture for runtime compilation of machine code.

    So, let's say it's successful (it isn't guaranteed). Once this architecture (actually, I guess it's a family of architectures from what I've read before) establishes itself, wouldn't code written to run "native" run better? By this I mean, code that does not do the things that are harder or more "heat" expensive to emulate. Aren't they neglecting an opportunity for OEMs to create even zippier devices by pitching it only as an x86 emulator? Using the Palms formerly known as Pilot for the standard, there's not a lot of software there, the apps aren't very rich: a device that did that by default, with WinCE running as an app would be kinda cool.

    1. Re:is it even faster "native"? by dadith · · Score: 3

      Well I've posted an article aboout that somwhere in this discussion but I think we overlapped a bit ;)

      Before reading this article I thought pretty much the same reagardless how nicely and efficent codemorphing is, it causes overhead and slows execution down. The fact that Crusoe still (seems) to keep up with real natice implementations of the instruction set hints a a very high potential for native applications. So far so good.

      But

      As I read it (please correct me if I'm wrong) the crusoe does not have a MMU at last not a fully functional. So some part of that is loaded off to the Software layer as well, which makes sense since the morphing software does not need an MMU and we need to filter memory access anyway (for those virtual devices). There are other things as well. Does the Crusoe have a privilege system? I doubt it, because it's not needed. These things can be handled solely in software.
      The engenieers at transmeta took quite a lot of shortcuts when designing this CPU and as a result it's quite possible that an OS implementation on the bare Transmeta Instruction set would not be possible without seriously compromising the OS.

      Plus I could imagine that Crusoe would be a real pain to program. But if I'd be in a position to know that the only pain would probably result from all the glue I put on my chair ;)

      Ciao, Peter

  4. Things that make me hunger for this pie... by SuperKendall · · Score: 3

    If you would read the article, you would find that Linus is not even mentioned.

    As for the product, I'm a believer. Here are some of the things that exite me about the product:

    * Variable power consumption depending on the task at hand.
    * Code morphing means that they can change the hardware completeley to enhance specialized tasks without recompiling the software.
    * Can run binaries for multiple architectures at the same time.
    * First really new chip design in some time.
    * Dynamic optimization of running code to improve application performance.

    The last point has been proved quite well in my mind my Sun's HotSpot technology for Java. I've seen my own code, my own examples greatly increase in speed using HotSpot.

    Dynamic compilation con provide great speed increases as it can improve speed of code that you run the most - No matter how much a developer profiles an app ahead of time users always end up using the application at least a little differently than anticipated. It also fits the way I've seen most users (including myself) using computers, where you spend a long time working with a small set of applciations.

    The chips may be a little slower now, but especially in the area of portable devices speed may not be your primary concern. I really don't care how many FPS I can get out of UT on a laptop as much as I'd like to run it a week on the same battery.

    That's where the hardware improvement flexiblity comes into play. By redesigning software and hardware, they could design to go a lot faster if they want to - or, they could design for a lot lower power consumption than they have even now. One of the critisms of the chip has been that the ARM chips run with even lower power usage, but that may not stay true forever. Remember, it wasn't until the last year of design that they even considered low power consumption an important goal at all! Lower power chips are probably the first goal they have in mind now. for the next chips they produce.

    I haven't bought a laptop yet because of the terrible battery usage. A Transmeta laptop would be very appealing to me if it could make battery use last a whole 24 hours, and also provide a good level of performance for Java and Linux applciations (so I could do design work with TogetherJ on a plane or in a hotel room, for instance).

    Do you not think there is a HUGE market for laptops (that can also run Windows stuff) with a battery life "only" three times greater than the nearest competitor? Sounds like a pretty level headed plan to me.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. Laughing all the way to the bank by Forge · · Score: 3

    Venture Capitalists who put money into Transmeta are liking there chops already. It's going to take some major goofups for this baby to do anything but rake in vast piles of money.

    Sure it's not the fastest chip out there but it is fast enough for most things. iNTEL will over the next few months have to market it's laptop chips as a way to play Quake on the road. There is a good chance that they will make an offer on Transmeta. There is also a good chance that Transmeta will say no.

    Why no ? Because after reading up on how these chips work I have come to realize that this "It's a low power chip for portables" argument is just to get a leg in the door. The way Code Morphing works suggests that it will be possible to gang several chips together and have them perform like a single, very fast CPU. All it takes is modifications to the code morphing software.

    Do SMP at that level then again at the OS level and you will have 16 and 32 way machines that scale like 2 way or 4 way boxes even under Linux 2.0 or Windows NT 4.

    When ( not if ) Transmeta moves into the high end they will dominate it for a few years just as they will gradually come to dominate the portable market.

    --
    --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
  6. More confident about Transmeta by rjamestaylor · · Score: 5
    After reading the article (which everyone does do, right?) I am more confident about Transmeta's technology and future (in the current market dynamics, of course). Why? Because the article does nto mention Linus Torvalds once (except. perhaps, in general reference in the "we hired people straight out of college" section).

    Don't misunderstand, I am a fan of Torvalds.

    It's just that Transmeta is not Linus' idea, it's his employer.

    The fact that this article details the vision (and results of the working-out of that vision) rather than hyping it's Most Famous Employee(SM), is a Good Thing(TM).

    Go Transmeta! (And, go Linus!).

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  7. Crusoe articles? by Chalst · · Score: 3

    There has been a dearth of good technical analyses of the Crusoe
    available on the web. There is this official White
    paper (PDF), and I liked this
    article by Jon Stokes at at Ars Technica, but apart from that I
    have seen very little quality information. This essay is much needed.