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Rural India Could Get Internet Access Via Railway
Anonymous Coward writes "The BBC reported today on a pilot project underway in India that would bring the Internet to rural India in an affordable way. They are using the spare capacity of the communications and control cabling used for the electrified railway tracks. They also plan to set up cybercafe kiosks at the railway stations." And remember, there are more than 38,000 miles of railway in India.
I have this mental image of little bits travelling to the outer reaches of India, saying "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can..."
I think it's time for my Lithium pill now.
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
(Boy, I seem to spend a lot of time pointing out problems anymore. Yeesh. I'm turning into a leech.)
1) You're running on the spare carrying capacity of a dedicated control system? Just how much spare bandwidth is there on this thing? Knowing how much money India generally has to toss around, I can't imagine that they've built a whole lot of extra in there. If this gets implemented on a national scale, won't there be congestion from hell?
2) What do people in the villages need with the Internet anyway? They're currently working on a model where there's one woman who's the "phone lady" and who acts as the primary link to other villages. Despite what pundits claim, you can't really get much of an education from the Web alone (yet). If I were a person in a rural Indian village, I'd be more interested in getting me some of that modern plumbing and health care before I wanted to go read Slashdot. It's basic Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs stuff.
Then again, maybe somebody wants to auction off a used water buffalo on eBay...
I'm reminded of a story my housemate showed me at one point, where some telcos in South America were having trouble with people digging up and reselling any copper line they laid.
Solution? They placed 56K frame signals (or maybe it was X.25, my memory is fuzzy) on the existing barbed wire fences; nobody was going to cut those down and risk losing their cattle, in fact, that made for free repairs of the frame line, since the ranchers would repair the fence on their own dime....
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Now, does the Slashdot crew need to update the faq for the new readers from India that explains how Slashdot karma works? On the other hand, it would be fun to imply that bad posts may result in being continuously reincarnated as spam messages for all eternity.
For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
Perhaps someone misunderstood the term "network engineer."
-- Insert witty one-liner here. --
Do we really need more posts like "how r u doin? do u study? i am 14 Indian. I m usin intrnet for 1st time"
I think this is a GREAT thing! Sure, YOU may not want to talk to that 14 year old from India, but get him talking with a 14 year old from Pakistan and see how long it takes for those two kids to realize they have a lot in common. When you have all the kids growing up and talking to eachother, maybe they can make a difference in their countries' relations.
I agree with the other posts about plumbing and electricity probably being more important in the near term, but don't underestimate the power of communication. So many problems we face today are the result of groups being isolated from eachother and not understanding eachother. The Internet is one way of changing that.
- Isaac =)
You're spoiled by the relatively reliable power available in the West. I'm sure the people in rural India would love to have more reliable power, but they're used to not having it. Rotating blackouts (because of lack of capacity) are a way of life.
The internet could bring with it educational opportunities that would be impossible otherwise. This is far more important in the long term than a few hours a day of extra power.
Plus, solving the energy problem would be very expensive. Power stations cost millions of dollars. That money would be better spent on sanitation systems. Internet access provided by existing cabling could be quite cheap.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
That'll be some bitchy latency! You'll have to wait for the computer to print each packet, wait for the train to come, send the packets out on the train, (there will probably be a charge for each packet), where a person at the main station types your packets into the computer, gets the response, prints the response, and sends it to (hopefully) you via the next train... you then type in the packet, and (drumroll please), you get a webpage!!! (if everybody typed right). Imagine playing quake on that!
yes, i read the article. that was humor.
Think that was flamebait? You've obviously never met me in person...
$email=~tr/.@/
Southern Pacific Railroad INterstate Telephone system. The sales end was known as United Telephone, and they would connect directly to companies near railroad tracks, bypassing the local monopoly.
:-)
The rail companies all had their own internal telegraph and telephone systems, since they already had the right-of-way going from town to town. Once they realised they could sell the excess, a whole new industry was born.
The old SPRINT telephone system was a great learning grounds for some early phreakers. Security against fraud was non-existant, and gateways to the regular phone system were almost untraceable. Not that I would know any of this first-hand *ahem*
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
As I recall:
MCI was the first. It put microwave antennas on buildings and towers, and sold long-distance service. (They're those dishes with the red lightning bolt.) And it sued to break the AT&T monopoly on long distance service.
Once that monopoly was broken, Sprint was exactly what you described: It started as Southern Pacific Railroad selling unused capacity of their new fiber-along-the-right-of-way as another (the second?) competetive long-distance company. The name is an acronym for the railroad's original networking project - Southern Pacific Railroad Net .
Not to be outdone, MCI joined the bandwagon and leased fibre rights along another right-of-way. (If I recall correctly MCI made a deal with another railroad, and it was yet another company who cut one with a power company to run fiber under the big power towers.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
To all the slashdotters in India, I can't wait to come back and see more of the country.
P.S. For some pictures of the trip if you are interested check out this link.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
It great to order pizza when you're stuck outside Chicago on a freight train, waiting for traffic to clear... (I've done a few times. Once, in 11 hours, we only moved 5 miles)...
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Here's my mirror
1. To cut down costs and more importantly speed of communication with the rest of the world especially other villages and cities. The costs of communicating through long distance calls is very high and the Internet can cut that costs by a tenth. When you realise that people in the villages do not have CASH to spend on communication they will welcome the Internet. However just because they do not have cash does not mean they are necessarily dirt poor. They dont need a A.C/fan to keep themselves cool. They dont need to drink coke. The food is very simple and easily available. They take care of their own most of the times unlike city folk who dont care for the people around them.
2. They can access Govt information which is one of the major costs since htey have to travel to the nearest city/town to get that. The govt in some states is also ensuring that all records and process information is available on the net for the convenience of the people.
3. They may access the net for education. While this may not be widely used, this is a possibility.
4. Medical help and information. The Primary Health centres in villages which are staffed by nurses can get help from doctors across the world and from databases. Medical Information can be maintained thru the net at a central location for help and analysis.
5. Information collection. One of the problems with India is the lack of reliable information about various things. How many acres under Rice, Wheat and SUgar Cane. What is the expected yeild. WHile this may seem worthless information to geeks, this helps the govt plan a lot of things such as how much should the waterflow thru a dam should be. HOw much electricity is needed, which will really help a country.
I should know becos I come from an Indian village.
O this learning! What a thing it is - William Shakespeare
The first time Williams ran fiber, they used a decomissioned gas pipeline. Only later did they figure out that fiber was safer from backhoes when near *working* gas pipelines.
All around the gas pipeline
The backhoe dug a trench.
The trench got too close to the fiber.
Pop goes the backhoe.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
I've done a fair amount of traveling in India, though mostly in Urban/semi rural areas, but there's a fair amount of computer interest even outside the largest cities. On numerous road journeys in southern and south western India, every town (not as small as villages) had several satellite dishes, with cables stringing via electrical wire, bringing Cable TV to the villagers. In some of the larger towns, there were Internet access centers, and computer training classes.
When the state monopoly ISP, VSNL, was forced to allow other companies to hook up for access, ~ a year or so ago, cable modem internet services started springing up, first in the wealthiest areas of the largest cities, but spreading.
I recently found out that the district center of my native district has 12 cybercafes, with a population of under 100,000
All of these developments have only served to help out the richest Indians so far.
However, things are changing, and frankly improved communications via the net can impact the lives of even the poorest Indian villagers, not withstanding the protestations of Anonymous Cowards who think that Indians should improve their living standards by the same plodding methods that other countries did.
Studies that I've read have shown that the existence of just one phone in a village was enough to _double_ its average income. Why? Because, the increased communication allowed villagers, most of whom in India are farmers, to get better information about wholesale prices and get better deals from middlemen.
With one Internet connection to a village (imagine 1 or 2 486's running Linux, maybe hooked up with a bunch of VT100's running as serial consoles), villagers would be able to email bureaucrats and politicians, and get information on everything ranging from weather forecasts, to current crop prices, to even advice on animal husbandry.
Some objections that can (and have) been raised are costs, and also linguistic barriers. Given that an i-opener or cheap network computer has an approximate cost of $300 to make, it would cost a village of 500 people about 60 cents per person to purchase a computer, about half a day's wages for an average Indian.
Another objection raised is one of language and literacy. About 60% of Indians are literate, but people with at least a high school education can easily hired to run a place and help people whose literacy skills are weak. Also, people with a high school education are likely to have had a few years of English. A small fee can be placed for using the "cybercafe", the proceeds of which could be used to pay the operator and also pay for the purchase costs of the machine. This scheme is already being done in some areas of India.
With regards to the language issues, websites are starting to spring up in many Indian languages and scripts, making this less of a problem in the future.
Though it may seem that building better roads and a greater supply of electricity would be a better use of the money, helping them gain knowledge will help them increase their income several fold, which will in the long run help them increase their living standards by much more than institutional wisdom holds is possible....
Arun
Now I don't feel like the oldest fart on /. :-)
:-)
:-)
You've got the SPCC bit right, but I thought United Telco, Centel, and dozens of others were the local interconnect companies who re-sold the capacity to large companies, and ensured connections to the local Bell and GTE plants. But my memory fails me in my old age
SPCC was selling telephone service over buried copper trunks starting in the 1930s, from San Francisco to New Orleans and many other areas in the south. They added microwave capacity in the 60s. In the 80s they started to replace the copper with fibre.
I once saw a map of independent telcos in the US, and the ones that survived the longest and had the best connections were all along the SP track routes, and could negotiate long distance access because there was competition. The independents locked into an area with only Ma Bell to connect to were all eventually driven out of business by the abusive monopoly powers of Ma. Its what started the DoJ's anti-trust case which led to the breakup of Ma Bell. One can only hope the DoJ does better with M$
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
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Here's my mirror