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What Kind Of Logs Should ISPs Keep?

Effugas asks: "An engineer at a rather large ISP recently asked me a rather simple question that I didn't have a particularly good answer for: What logs should they be storing? He wasn't asking about the simple question of whether their own servers should be watched closely--that's obvious. He was asking about his routing infrastructure. I told him they of course musn't record the actual data being routed through their network; however, endpoint to endpoint route logs(since the establishment of those routes is the ISP's raison d'etre) did seem viable. But now, I'm not so sure--if there's one thing we learned from Kenneth Starr's subpeona of Lewinsky's book purchase records, it's that Barnes and Noble stored such records in the first place! But on the flip side, I've certainly had friends be harassed and threatened online, and turning a blind eye to everything but attacks directly against the network doesn't seem right either. So I ask, without passing judgement in either direction: What options does a network administrator have for retaining forensic evidence in case of abuse, which ones are ethically justified, and what are the actual router configurations which implement such ethical systems?"

3 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Crypto by Signal+11 · · Score: 5
    That depends. You could get in trouble for taking this advice, depending on what form of tyranny^H^H^H^Hgovernment you happen to live under...

    Personally, I would encrypt them all using public-private key crypto. The "public" key is what is used to feed the data into syslog, and the private key can be used to decrypt it if you need it. If your systems are physically or otherwise compromised, the attacker still cannot derive the private key as long as you maintain due diligence in maintaining the security of the logging host(s). This means you can log everything to your hearts content and not worry about privacy concerns, as much. Just make sure to put the standard disclaimers in your AUP.

    I suspect, however, that wasn't quite the answer you were looking for. Honestly, in order to compromise most people's privacy requires an ungodly large harddrive to store all that information. Simply monitoring a T1 with a packetsniffer doing decent filtering can easily trash a fast 30GB HDD. The security industry is replete with stories of how crackers were caught because their packet sniffers went amok trying to log everything, and crashed the system trying.

    I'd recommend logging the source and destination of mail, and when it was retrieved. If you are using RADIUS servers, log the times they signed on and off, and keep the system clock religiously on-time. Have the facilities to monitor each user (ie, be familiar with how to use a packetsniffer, and have a box on standby if you need to use it). A quick cheat would be to configure the RADIUS server to tell $SUSPECT connection to only use $MONITORED_IP and then tell the packetsniffer to dump everything from $MONITORED_IP to disk. It's simple, but it works.

    As far as advice on law enforcement.. it depends on your situation. If you have been compromised, it still may do you more harm than good to report it due to the administrative overhead involved in prosecuting them. Generally, however, they are quite helpful on getting you the information you need to prosecute. Don't expect them to get too involved though unless your SMTP logs say that a message was sent from l335h4x0r@yourisp.com to president@whitehouse.gov with a subject line mentioning what he's going to do with a box of cigars and a can of surgical lubricant. In that case, you probably won't have any choice but to cooperate. :)

    Hope this helps,

  2. Transparent Web proxies: are you being logged? by peterw · · Score: 5
    Last year, my ISP, without any announcement, began using a transparent Web proxy. Most of my outbound traffic to TCP port 80 gets re-routed through machines running some Inktomi transparent HTTP proxy software.

    Naturally, my ISP keeps logs for that traffic (Inktomi boasts that its Traffic Server can write many different log formats), in part to deal with abuse.

    As you might also expect, the privacy policy does not directly cover these logs. It makes promises about some very specific types of information, but does not make any general statements that obviously pertain to types of information not covered in the enumerated, specific types. Result: I think most lawyers would say my ISP could sell access to DoubleClick, the FBI, or anyone else.

    Checking your system

    So are you using a proxy, but don't know it? You can check pretty quickly (though I should warn you, while a positive/proxy result is conclusive, a negative/no-proxy result may be a result of the proxy configuration, as the systems can be set up to bypass the proxy for certain sites, or to only use the proxy for certain sites, etc.).

    Step 1: what's your address?
    Check your current address for whatever network adapter (ethernet card, PPP/dialup device, etc.). In Unix or Linux, something like '/sbin/ifconfig eth0' will do; in Windows 9x, run 'winipcfg'; in Windows NT, 'ipconfig'.

    Step 2: what address do web sites see?
    Go to a URL that will show you the environment variables passed to CGI scripts, like http://www.cgihost.com/cgi-bin/env.cgi or http://www.ualberta.ca/htbin/dumpenv.pl . Look at REMOTE_ADDR. Reload several times. Does it change? You might see some other proxy-specific variables like HTTP_CLIENT_IP and HTTP_VIA, depending on the proxy server's configuration.

    Step 3: interpreting the results
    If you ever see a REMOTE_ADDR value in Step 2 that doesn't match the local address from Step 1, yet you don't have a Manual or Automatic proxy configured in your browser, then congratulations, you're behind a transparent proxy, and should assume that all your Web traffic is being logged.

    http:// vs https:// For regular HTTP, there's a lot they can conceivably record. The URL. Your cookies. Where you came from. Etc. For https:// it's a bit better. All they can do is record where you connected to, and when. Even this information might be deemed valuable, e.g., someone frequently connecting to many banking sites probably isn't eligible for low income tax credits. https:// is somewhat like encrypting your email: they can't tell what you're doing, but they can tell who you're contacting.

    I've complained via email a few times, and received a couple polite emails from the technical staff. But nothing has changed in the official policy, so my ISP is still free to share my complete Web usage history with whomever they wish. Highest bidder? Most pushy government agency? I can't say.

    -Peter

  3. Re:Logs, none, incorrect by thesparkle · · Score: 5

    Maybe some of you have not worked at an ISP, but ISP's keeping logs is very important, if only to combat SPAM and other forms of abuse.

    These logs should include:

    * Radius logs - username, port, and time, (Caller ID or npanxx info if you can get it), and IP assignment.

    * SMTP logs - SMTP ID. Actual copies of emails would require too much space than available to any ISP.

    * NNTP logs - again ID information only (NNTP post ID, date, time, etc).

    * Accounting logs as relevant to specific devices - for instance, shell and web servers which allow for telnet/ssh access, ftp servers, etc. This is not spying, this is good system administration.

    * DNS - knowing about those lame delegations is a big help. Especially when your customers routinely register domain names with your name servers as authoritative but fail to alert you!

    * Most important, accounting logs for root level commands as executed by the system's administrators. This can be a sore spot with some admins, but logging into a machine as root or su'ing immediately to root after login does not present accurate data as to what the admins are doing on a box. Using sudo or one of the other packages and maintaining an adherence policy to its' use should be expected. (Yes, yes there are ways around it..).

    Most of these things are standard practices for any of you who have worked for an ISP. I could care less what people were doing online unless they were violating our TOS/AUP and generated complaints. At that point, we needed to know who was doing what in order to fufill our contractual obligations to all of our customers.