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FTC Seeks Battle With Toysmart
wrenling writes: "Toysmart promised to never share their customer's data. They lied. They are seeking to sell their customer databases. The FTC voted today to begin a court battle with Toysmart to block them from doing so. CNN has more details in a CNNfn article."
Assuming that the FTC didn't enter into a court battle, couldn't we (the users) enter into a class-action lawsuit against Toysmart? I mean, getting cash cost for damages, etc., above and beyond what they were paid for the database would send out a better message, IMHO. I would think that to be a better deterrent.
"I'm not even supposed to BE here today!"
I actually read a similar article about this initially at news.com talking about companies doing ths all the time when they go bankrupt. Of all the hardware and everything they have (as much as an internet company CAN have) customer databases sell for the most and oft times get them out of debt the most. It's good to see a government organization standing up for the people for once.
For the attentive (like me) check news.com from Saturday, I believe, and see which OTHER companies are currently auctioning off customer databases. You may have done business with them at some point.
Excercise your rights or loose them.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Just how binding was Toysmart's promise? Was it a "Above subject to change without notice" or was there an explicit contract between user and Toysmart?
In the former case I doubt that anything will happen, but it will be very exciting if somebody goes down because of this.
--
Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
marotti.com
Don't moderate this as "off topic" just yet - allow me to get around to my point.
I am a libertarian - so don't accuse me of libertarian bashing, because that's not what this is about. And when I say "libertarian," think "political party", not "crypto-anarchist". Do that for the sake of this article, whatever you really believe.
There, now that is out of the way.
So, as a libertarian, I have a problem here.. An inner conflict, if you will. One one hand, I believe (like a good libertarian should) that there should be less government. That the government should keep its hands out of just about everything. But on the otherhand, without the government, toysmart can violate my rights. Microsoft can crush my company. And I cannot stop them.
Of course, we can talk about standing up for your beliefs, and organizing this and that, etc. etc., but right now, toysmart is all set to disclose private information trusted to them - after they said they wouldn't.. and it looks like the FTC is the only thing with enough force to stop them.
So, knowing there are a lot more involved libertarians out there, what is the answer in cases like these - where the government stands between us and toysmart, or microsoft...
What is a libertarian supposed to think about it?
wish
---
This is definately a case of a company breaking an agreement, which warrents civil action at the least, and possibly criminal liability.
IANAL, IAAl (I am not a lawyer, I am a libertarian).
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
This is the way to stem and break the trade in customer data.
Enforcing contract law is a vital role of the government. Without it, there's no recourse when one doesn't get what one pays for (in this case, I consider Toysmart's privacy policy to be a part of the terms of sale).
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Let's see...
The Federal Trade Commission has a cadre of crack investigators backed up by masses of professional bureaucrats.
Toysmart has warehouses full of Sooper Soakers and a legion of G.I. Joes with Kung Fu Grip[tm].
My money's on Toysmart.
k.
--
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people
are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
So you tought that coming here and buying our crap merchandise ONCE, a miserable one time in your life was enough?
Look at what you acomplished, you moron! We are out of business now, thanks to you! Why haven't you come back? Why haven't you told your wife, your husband, your neighbours, your friends to come and buy from us? Why?
Know what, we will get even with you. Yes, just wait and see. We have you by the hand. We know where you live, we know your credicard number, we know your phone number.
We will go out and sell all this to highest bidder. No, I have a better idea yet. We will sell it to MEANEST bidder.
Your phone number will go to the worst direct marketeers in the country! Your address, to every church in your area. Your children's names will go directly to alt.sex.pedophilia.children.offer.themselves. Your wife's name we have already sent to a scort's online site. And your boss will be hearing about that sex toys you bought.
You made us suffer. Now taste our revenge. Next time you will thinking twice before failing to help an honest and good online store to trive.
I'm all about that, but this is getting impossible in this increasingly connected world. I was off the junkmail...er...DMA...lists for nearly a year until I moved. I was assured - several times, mind you - by US Postal Service staff that my new address would not be bought or sold.
Just think of all the people who have your info already: creditors (revolving credit), other creditors such as the phone company, power company, cellular service provider, cable company, magazine producers, banks, your ISP, InterNIC - the list is so long I can't name them all.
You have to tell every one of these companies that you don't want them to sell or rent your name. Companies are getting around that, however. They still share your information - but this time it's with "business partners." Look - don't fucking give my information to anyone without explicitly asking me first.
And even if you do tell everyone to not sell your info, you'll probably still get junkmail and telemarketing calls - especially if you have a legitimate address in your InterNIC record. There are some jerks who poll InterNIC WHOIS records for addresses to add to junkmail lists. Also if you try to sell a car in a newspaper you'll get calls from people all over the country who use computers to poll online classifieds and -- illegally, mind you (see Junkbusters regarding the TCPA) -- use automated systems to call any phone numbers listed. I know - I got over 10 calls -- ALL automated -- from businesses trying to get me to pay them 40 bucks to have my vehicle ad blasted all over creation.
I'm sure it's no wonder to you that I'm all about the FTC going after these pricks.
There is a parallel, in my view, between this and "click-through" and "shrinkwrap" licensing schemes.
From a common sense standpoint, the FTC has to win this battle. If they don't, this would not only make privacy policies essentially unenforceable, but other types of non-signature contracts as well.
If a company is able to arbitrarily go against their posted privacy policy, then consumers should be able to do the same in reverse for any other similar type of contract. IE, I should be able to click on one of Microsoft's "I Agree" buttons on one of their click-through licenses, and then feel free to go against it at a whim. They are both equally valid contracts, requiring exactly the same effort to "agree" to them (clicking on a little button on a webpage), and both employing the same tactic for proof of identity (they take your word for it).
It would be in any software company's best interests to fight on the FTC's side on this one.
>about it?
You aren't *supposed* to think anything about it.
Go ahead... think any damn thing you please. No one'll burn you at the stake. Form an opinion for yourself, and don't wait for the libertarian gurus to form one for you. Just because you belong to a particular political party/religion/group does NOT mean you MUST adjust your entire thought processes to fit it's doctrine.
OTOH, some of those same entities *DO* beleive that everyone MUST think alike. And will go to great lengths to silence/excommunicate their critics. Which is why I will never support groups like the republican or democrat parties, the christian church, peta, cult of scientology, micro$oft, etc.
But, the last I checked, there was nothing in the libertarian philosophy that said you MUST accept, beleive in, and think in line with, EVERY aspect of the philosophy.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
National Public radio news had a long story on this on Friday.
One of the possibilities identified is that a judge might allow the sale of the very valuable data (this sort of thing goes for 15 bucks a name,) to a company that agrees to uphold the same garauntee.
The issues are complicated here, as the shareholders want some return of their investment, and this is one of the most valuable assets the company has.
Our promise
At toysmart.com, we take great pride in our relationships with our customers and pledge to maintain your privacy while visiting our site. Personal information voluntarily submitted by visitors to our site, such as name, address, billing information and shopping preferences, is never shared with a third party. All information obtained by toysmart.com is used only to personalize your experience online. This information is received via the following areas of our site: My toysmart and the Gift Center. When you place additional orders, our site will update your order history, which you can view in My toysmart. If you sign up for the gift registry, information you submit will be added to your personal profile. Other than these two instances, the information that you provide us is not supplemented in any way.
Right Now, our government is doing things you think only other governments do.
Even if they promised, in no uncertain terms, not to sell your info?
If they break a straightforward promise like that, what other things are they going to be dishonest about?
Too bad the corporate structure prevents executives, managers (AND SHAREHOLDERS) from doing a little jailtime for violating the law.
There would have to be a way to link the answers to people if it is going to sell. But a free software organization could collect such information from people willing to volunteer it and sell it, using the proceeds to fund projects. And a summary of the data could be a powerful argument for the size of the free software community whether or not it is sold.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
I just posted the following to the Toysmart Feedback Page. Feel free to copy/paste my message - let the departing officers of this failed business know that they will not get off the hook so easily. So, you think you can quietly sell of my private information just because your incompetence lead to your failure? I will not give any private information to any web sites or businesses with known associations to the following privacy policy violators, at anytime in the future: David N. Lord Mark S. Reese John Puckett Roy Liu Sincerely, A Former Customer CC: slashdot.org
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo