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Embedding Ads In MP3s?
icqqm writes: "According to this Wired article, a company called Digital Payloads is planning to embed small ads into MP3 files to generate revenue for the record labels. The advertisers would pay a one-time fee (since MP3s can't be tracked) and then the file would be relased to be Napster-ized, etc. The company is betting that people would rather listen to ths small ad than go through the trouble of having to remove it." OK conceptually this isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it would take about one hour before software existed to automatically strip it out: and open source gnapster clients would simply add a plugin interface to offer post download filtering before playing... which would strip the ads. I want a way to make MP3s kosher, but this ain't it.
"It's no more obtrusive than an FM DJ announcing a song."
Have you ever heard a DJ talk and talk and talk over the intro to a song, only shutting up right before the singer starts the first verse? So that's what this might be doing...
Therefore, even if you could come up with software which strips the ads (and is able to tell the difference between ads and the "real" music), you still lose the entire intro to the song.
To within half a percent, pi seconds is a nanocentury. -- Tom Duff
This is the START of a cool idea, but you'd need some kind of transparent and strong digital signature scheme; otherwise, any wiseass out there could render your MP3 out to a wave file, and then re-encode and re-release it with /HIS/ PayPal information encoded, and the listener would have no way of knowing the difference.
As soon as you start talking about sending money over the Net, you come up against the same issues of authentication and certification that have us all paying Verisign et al to vouch for the fact that we are who we say we are.
Nobody has a perfect scheme yet that is both strong/reliable and easy to use for Joe Average. Once that happens, this kind of idea will be cake to implement.
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That said: I know who my competition is. It's the same major labels that have brainwashed generations into thinking that only majorlabel-signed acts are worth hearing, even though this is less and less plausible every year. As an indie musician (btw- buy one of my CDs for $5.99? Please? :) ), my mp3s compete against the 'unauthorised' mp3s of major label acts distributed through services like Napster.
If the major labels want to make their products more unpleasant through building ads into the mp3s or other annoying practices, I say great, go right ahead and do it. If they can magically replace _all_ the existing majorlabel mp3s (hah!) with ad-laden ones, woohoo, go ahead and do it! I am delighted to observe any method by which the music biz can destroy itself through arrogance and greed. I would love to be known as 'one of those people who makes mp3s which DON'T have annoying ads on them'.
Because here's the secret- the majors don't have a lock on worthwhile music. They don't even have a lock on well-produced, expensive sounding music- you just have to be enough of an audiophile geek to know how to make things sound right. I rejoice and dance about chortling smugly at every sign that the biz is going to leverage their supposed lock on all good music by building ads into the mp3s, or making their music SDMI-only, or making the CDs unrippable (and unreliable). They are only hamstringing themselves and doing great damage to the quality of their product, thinking that nobody can replace them. And today, you don't need to have the same kind of distribution networks to replace them... the rules have changed...
(do please go listen to some tunes of mine at the URL given above- they're free and they're up there to be heard, and there will be more and more of them)
Same way we do it with TV. Advertisements have a distinct signature audio-wise - the volume usually is higher than the TV programming. Simply normalize the output, and chop the high point. But that may only be effective for, say, classical music - Fear Factory might not have the same approach. Now most music has a prelude, a quiet opener, or atleast a distinct silence. You can't put that ad in the middle of the song or people will scream murder. So it has to be at the beginning or the end.
There's also the encoding - they might mismatch the bitrates. They will almost definately use 1 encoder - and probably not the one the MP3 has. So you can just analyze the MP3 and determine when the encoder changes - non-trivial, but considering how much geeks detest forced-advertisement, I'm sure it's possible. It's a BIG itch to scratch.
Another method I can think of is to simply visit the advertiser's site. Most of them are MORE than happy to provide ALL of their releases. A few waveforms and an FFT calculation later, and all your mp3's have had that signature removed.
Given that the primary method of MP3 distribution is currently online, someone could simply md5 sum the "bad" mp3's, and blacklist them. The servers (or clients) could then automagically purge them from the network. THAT is a trivial programming exercise.
Cheers,
Yeah, keeping with that theme, cutting off the advertisement-end of every MP3 is akin to a bris.
Btw, IANAR. (I am not a rabbi.)
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I like to watch.
Napster is a real problem for the record biz. It cost way too much to litigate all those little hosts of illegal music appearing and disapearing daily.
If ISP's had an easy way to log the MB's of MP3's(or DVD's) downloaded by people and combine that with an analysis of the popular bands by download sampling (ala Nielson ratings from server logs at random), charge a premium for MP3/DVD downloads to the customer and the ISP's pay a "protection from procecution" fee to the MPAA et.al. that gets redistributed to the artists and I think we could have a system that allows artists to get revenue for their creations and let people pay as they play.
I think it is likely that people would end up paying relatively little for their MP3's (~20cents a download) and ~$1DVD. People could even install programs that monitor downloads by content type and even whether the file was played >50% of content to allow people to settle disutes with their ISP.
Of course this would stratify ISP's along the lines of MP3/DVD enabled/legal and those that can't afford to keep track of such data.
So, a question to the network gurus out there....Is it possible to monitor net traffic of MP3's/DVD's in real time? Any other ideas for a fair system that allows certain data types to get charged a bandwidth fee?
Cheers
no sig.
"The question comes up how then can we legitamize mp3s and allow all this discussion to stop about illegal copying. It seems that either it will manifest itself in advertisements, much like some streaming radio and video providers are doing or else creating a highly encrypted limited use format of encoding."
:) Remember when places like barnesandnoble.com were offering Stephen King's e-book for free on the day of its' release? People had already cracked the weak encryption on the e-books while they were still being offered for free. Unless you're talking about tossing something like 128-bit encryption on these files, forget about it. Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'll bet the farm that somebody will find a way.
Time to respectfully disagree...
For one, slapping ads on MP3s isn't going to work well. As somebody already mentioned in this forum, people have practically become desensitized to ads on the Internet, just look at the click-thru rates for banner ads. And when you throw that banner ad into a pop-up window, you've already given yourself the kiss of death. Besides, what is going to stop someone from finding ways to removing the ads from MP3s? There are already filters out there that remove the banner ads and pop-up windows from your browsing experience, a filter that removes ads from your listening experience may not be too far off.
As for the encryption...you aren't new to Slashdot, are you?
IMHO, there's really only one solution to this whole problem of MP3s: the artists, the industry, and the companies like Napster have to work together to find common ground, because there is money in MP3s. I believe that the musicians out there should be compensated for their hard work, but taking the "Shut down Napster" route that Metallica is on is just counter-productive and very stupid. Everybody knows that if Napster goes down, then programs like Gnutella and Freenet will just take it's place, and the "Sue 'em 'til they die" mentality of Metallica and the RIAA isn't going to work. The cat's out of the bag on MP3 trading, and unless everybody is willing to work together, find some common ground, and adapt to the changes, this problem will remain, no matter how many Lars Ulriches, Hilary Rosens, and Howard Kings there are out there.
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The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
The results shocked them. VCs go for bad ideas. Real-world feasibility, profit potential, and technological innovation all showed ironclad negative correlations with VC interest. Impossibility, incorrect assumptions, marginal gain, and large capital outlay all drew VC capital in droves. In retrospect, it was obvious -- good ideas haven't been tried before ("It looks pretty risky..."), require technical savvy ("Tell me again about the packets."), and are often cheap and easy to implement ("What do you mean server software is free?"). Bad ideas are simple, and run entirely on their own internal logic ("People don't mind commercials on TV."). They're easy to understand. VCs always want to invest in The Internet, but they startle and confuse easily. Bad ideas help keep them calm and make them feel technological: I GET it! Selling ads on MP3's! Why has no one thought of this before? Why were all those other guys babbling about pier-to-pier and data covens?
With their newfound knowledge, these four geniuses used their remaining $2500 to start BII, which has been tirelessly working to plumb the depths of badness an internet idea can achieve. Although their standard fare is web-porno filters and pay-per-use software, they do come out with a real gem every now and then... I have to admit, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. Rumor has it they're planning on starting a web site after they retire, showcasing for posterity their most stunningly awful ideas. I'm looking forward to it.
Forget the ads.
Develop their own napster-like system, which is 200X better than the current one:
More reliable servers
better search mechanism
wider selection
etc...
Then advertise on the website and in the client software, as seen in Apple's Sherlock.
Think of the targeted ads you could develop. "Do you like the Beatles track you just downloaded. Buy it now by clicking here!"
The problem is they're too stuck in the old ways to consider this solution.
tcd004
Go search on Napster for "Barenaked Ladies Pinch Me" and up will come a song by them that they've added ads for their new album in. I thought it was actually pretty cool that they'd decided to use Napster like they did.
I doubt this would be possible unless the MP3 format were changed to allow for some kind of ad header to be applied to the front or back. If it's just some audio that they encode and stick on the back or front of the MP3, how are you going to know which frames contain the ad audio and which contain the audio you want to hear?
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
I'm so sick of the advertising angle. Er maybe that's because I work late hours and arrive home to nothing but infomercials. Still...
I realize people feel the need to make money but this isn't the way to go about it. I'm even more amazed that advertisers would go for such a scheme. Look at the low click through rates on web banners. People are almost desensitized to this continual bombardment.
If the music industry (or small artists -- whoever) want to turn a buck off of downloadable music, I think selling individual songs is the better way to go about it. Charge more for the really popular tracks. But time and time again, people have shown that when you charge a fair price, many will cough up the $$ honestly. Many people dislike buying CDs because they get a song or two they like, and a bunch of filler crap.
Advertising in songs would just piss people off more IMO. I'm certainly not going to put up with that if I'm shuffling a large number of songs randomly all evening, for example.
Best regards,
SEAL
Now, what the modification does is put a little "buy me" button on the player. When you are listening to a song, you are offered a chance to send a little money to the artist who made it. You don't HAVE to send the money, but basically you make it such a small amount that people won't mind sending it. Then you just have the system bill your credit card.
I've noticed that PayPal allows increments as small as 1 cent to be charged, so I had the thought of using Paypal somehow as the charging system. Basically it would allow a small band to start distributing, getting some money back, and would require no significant infrastructure to process.
If you wanted to take it a step further, you could provide a way for the people to buy a related CD, T-Shirt, etc. Or maybe have a contest where if you chipped in your money your name would be entered to win something cool. A personal performance of the band maybe, or autographed band items.
The trick to all this is to insure that the system is neither intrusive nor restricting. Requiring a plugin is no big deal as long as the effort to install a plugin is more effort than it is to reverse engineer it away. Asking for payment, but not being intrusive about it, insures that nobody has an incentive to break your system.
Sure, with such a system nobody is guaranteed to get a dime, but I think most people would honestly be happy to send 50 cents to an artist if they liked the song. If you get your music distributed broadly enough, the 50 cents can add up quickly.
By the way, if you want to make such a system, go right ahead. My idea is now out there in the public pool of ideas for you to use as you see fit. In fact, I beg of you to make such a system because I think artists should get money, but I want it to be easy for them to get it direct from consumers without a bunch of money glutton corporations in the middle.
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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I mean, Ghandi didn't say "screw peace -- it just upsets people".
Jimmy Hoffa didn't say "Bullocks to the ruthless company-boars, but ya know -- fighting for unions just gets people all edgy and stuff".
Martin Luther King never said "Damn. Maybe I shouldn't bring up racism anymore. It just makes people cranky".
Rob Maldo never said "Bah. This Linux thing is starting to get old and boring. Let's talk about the Ron Popiel Juicer!"
Not that MP3's rank anywhere near those issues, but they are at once controversial, interesting, popular and newsworthy. Thus, they are worth reporting.
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seumas.com
MP3 is one of the best promotional tools a band could wish for. Here's a few ideas as to how to use it.
Place all your songs on your own website for people to download for free.
In the comment tags of each MP3 place your website address so that those who get it from other sources (eg napster etc) get the address.
On the same website announce tour dates, ticket prices, and where to get tickets.
Sell merchandise from the website.
Sell CDs from the website (the quality is better than MP3 and if the price is right and ordering is easy then those of us stuck in 56kbps land will snatch them up). Without a blood sucking record company you'll find you can sell CDs really cheap, and yet make more money per copy than any of the well known artists.
Other things you may like to try include:-
bombarding local and national radio stations with demo tapes and include the website address with the tape
including MP3s on your site that contain say 20 seconds of music from each track. That way we get a taster before either downloading the whole thing, or ordering the CD, or deciding that you're the greatest band ever and I'll be at that gig when you play near my town.
I honestly think that we'll find that the new music business will contain many artists who make a good living, rather than the current few who make a fantastic living.
Phil.
It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock n roll! - Bonn Scott 1976
I have a solution: product placement! E.g.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try.
Air-sole Nikes below us
Above us only sky.
Imagine all the people
holidaying in LA.
Woohooo
You may think I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope one day you'll try out
An Acme matress and have some fun.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
Check Steinberg.com or any one of the Audio DSP places. They've got plugins for a variety of different recording progarm which strip out "noise"
Personally I still think Corporate Rock Sucks (including SST)
when they ban enctryption only criminals wi$21*J *#JF$%!@#$':