Old Macs As Terminals

batwingTM asks: "Hey, I've have this old Mac Classic (the first computer that was completly mine) that I really wanted to do something with... It was suggested that I make it an aquarium (I remember After Dark for the Mac with "fish") but I also heard that it is possible to turn it into a simple terminal. I have a few Linux powered machines in the house and the thought of being able to access them from a terminal in the kitchen and/or bathroom seems appealing. So, I was wondering is anyone out there knows how this can be achieved?"

Comments

SCSI to Ethernet

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I've done this before. I turned a Mac Classic into a telnet console and an email machine for my kitchen. You can search on Ebay for a SCSI to ethernet adapter. They work well will system 7.1. There are some good SCSI to ethernet adapters manufactured by ASANTI. After you get this setup, get a cheap 10baseT card for your linuxbox. Construct a crossover cable, if you don't have a LAN. You can search the net for details on a crossover cable. They emulate a hub, so to speak. Once the two computers are connected, you have many possibilities. You can install netatalk on the linuxbox and mount your home directory on your mac desktop. If your linuxbox is only connected by PPP, you can setup ip forwarding and give the old mac net access. You can also download an old version of "better telnet" for the Mac. All in all, with your two machines connected by Ethernet, you can go much further than a simple "terminal". If you have any more questions about it, mail me at pdholden@mac.com.

Remote GUIs

[ecloud]

There is a version of VNC for the Mac, and also MacX. Either will allow you to view X programs running remotely on your Linux box. VNC is slow on old 68K Macs, though. It works better with uniform color schemes as opposed to fancy bitmap E schemes and pretty backgrounds.

Unfortunately I have not found a free MacOS X server which runs full-screen. With MacX, you can have an X root window in a Macintosh window (with its requisite title bar and menubar) or you can have a separate window for each X client and no root window.

I have also successfully run Debian on my IIci but it's kinda slow and it hung for some reason. I haven't gotten as far as installing X yet, because I can't seem to install anything with dselect or apt... it hangs while "resolving dependencies". Granted, the installation is maybe a year old, so maybe this is an old bug that's since been fixed.

Old Macs as Macs

[Otter]

I have more Mac Pluses than I need for aquariums and an original Mac I would never cut up. Of course, those 68000-based models won't run Linux/*BSD. I'd like to get them back into use as Macs. Is there any place to download the OS? I don't see anything before System 6 on Apple's FTP site.

And then there's my plan to fit a G4 cube inside a Mac Plus shell...

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[Karrots]

System 6 will work on Mac Plus's. You can download it from apple. I would suggest 6.0.8.

<a href="http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support _Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-Nor th_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/">
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Are a/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_Ame rican/Macintosh/System/Older_System/</a>

Karrots

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[Karrots]

Actually what I also wanted to say was that up to System 7.5.5 will work with a Mac Plus but it needs to have at least 4megs of ram. But I would stick with 6.0.8.

Karrots

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[GW Hayduke]

i still have my original Mac 1984 running somewhere at home with the system on an external 20MB HD.... If you'd like the system software, I'd be more than happy to send you a copy, but I need to get it on 800K floppies, and I'm having a tough time finding them. I also have a bunch of old 5 1/4's for my Apple II, Infocom stuff, Bards Tale, etc... but I'm REALLY looking for a copy of the old Galactic Trilogy (Empire,Trader,Revolution).... oh the memories

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[Jason W]

i still have my original Mac 1984 running somewhere

Jeez, thats a long uptime! 16 years? With a Mac?

Psst.. its a joke

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[lynk]

If you're looking for old 800k floppies you can make them.

Just cover up one of the holes in a "normal" floppy and your mac should be able to format them fine. It's just like changing 720k disks to 1.44Meg by drilling a hole in the right place...

Have Fun!

Lynk

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[edwazere]

But upgrade the ram ASAP those old
1 Meg 30 pin sims have a use!

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[scruffyMark]

Won't system 6 run on a Plus? That's what's running on our classic (or would be, if anyone turned it on).

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[MrBogus]

Running 7-anything on a Plus/SE/Classic is a huge mistake.

Download 6.08 from Apple's web site, and you will be much happier. (Dig around on the old printer disks to find the TrueType extention for System 6.)

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[iPerson]

Yes, that's true. Yet, for some reason 7.6 is still locked down as non free, and in fact is more expensive than a new copy of OS9. I have never been able to figure this one out, and countless Macintosh reps I have talked to have no idea why Apple continues to cling so tightly to thier remaining copies of that version.

Any ideas?

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[SFaulken]

Dude, system 7.0.1 runs fine on Mac Plus's from a floppy, I usta do it in the HS Mac lab, ALL dual-floppy Plus's, never had a problem, just gotta strip a few things from the old system folder =]

Re:Old Macs as Macs

[am 2k]

Maybe because it was crap. I never saw a more unstable os from any company before and after system 7.6.
I believe they don't want anybody to use it, btw it doesn't even work on a MacPlus because it requires a 68040 processor.
7.5.5 is good.

Not an ideal machine for a terminal ...

[Etyenne]

Considering that text terminal can be salvaged from dump for free, why you would want to use a Classic Mac for terminal is beyond me. The keyboard is stiff and too small, and the screen is TINY ! However, I admit that having a terminal that has a SCSI interface has a good geek-factor ...

Apple IIe

[unitron]

Someone gave me an Apple IIe--console, 2 floppy drives, color monitor (temporarily using it as VCR video display)--but no manuals or software, not even OS. Any constructive* suggestions for making use of it?

*Any that involve the words "boat anchor", "landfill", or "stick it..." do not qualify as constructive (or original).

Re:Apple IIe

[gmhowell]

You used to be able to buy tons of Apple IIe stuff from Sun Remarketing. Now they seem to specialize in Macs. But in the past, they have sold manuals, serial cards, etc, etc, etc.

It's funny you mention the Apple IIe. I just saw mine while at my parents' over the weekend. If I can find my copy of EA's Space Station Construction set (or whatever it was called) I think I'd bring it to my house. But now that you mention it, it could be fun to use as a Linux terminal for controlling an MP3 jukebox. It already has the video output to let me plug it into the TV...

I should have a spare manual for either a serial or parallel card (I can't remember which it had two of). Also, might want to check eBay.

Re:Apple IIe

[gmhowell]

PR#3 should switch you over to 80 columns (if you have the 80 column card) PR#6 is for floppies one and two (usually) and PR#7 is normally for the second pair of floppies (although I never saw such a beast). PR#1 is normally the printer. PR#2 would have been the serial card where you plug in the modem. Not sure about the rest.

BTW, anybody remember the DuoDrives? Looked nifty, but damn if you weren't screwed if one went down.

Re:Apple IIe

[scruffyMark]

There's a UNIX that'll run on a IIgs, but I think with a IIe you're basically stuck with one of Apple's DOS systems.

Not that that's necessarily bad - start scouring FTP sites, and you can probably come up with the software to turn it into a terminal pretty easily. And the darn things look so cool!

Re:Apple IIe

[arete]

I've heard not too long ago that there was still a brisk trade in Apple IIs for schools that still had Apple II based systems. I am personally (slightly) involved in a project that actually ships Apple IIe's around the US, because that's cheaper than hiring a programmer to redo the app.

(well, it's only like 5 of them, but still.)

Re:Apple IIe

[BigBlockMopar]

*Any that involve the words "boat anchor", "landfill", or "stick it..." do not qualify as constructive (or original).

Hmmm... I've got an old one where the motherboard was completely trashed, the keyboard had several bad keys, and the case was done. (It was from my high school, and had spent a number of years first in the computer lab, then was retired to the electronics classroom.) Suffice it to say that it was trashed.

I welded the little holes on the bottom of the case shut, painted the inside with POR-15 epoxy, and filled it with kitty litter. My cat loves it, and it's a real conversation piece in my bathroom.

not even OS.

If the ROM chips are still socketed on the motherboard, you still have an OS.

Type "pr#3" at a command prompt. If that doesn't make the floppy drive try to read, then type "pr#6". It one of the pr numbers, I can't remember which. If you try all of them in sequence, you'll find the floppy controller, the 80-column card (if you have it), etc.

From there, all you'll need is a little bit of software in the drive. I'm sure someone somewhere has written a program that will allow you to use a modern computer to format a 5.25" disk in Apple II format, then you should be able to download and copy something to it.

Re:Apple IIe

[BigBlockMopar]

PR#3 should switch you over to 80 columns (if you have the 80 column card) PR#6 is for floppies one and two (usually) and PR#7 is normally for the second pair of floppies (although I never saw such a beast). PR#1 is normally the printer. PR#2 would have been the serial card where you plug in the modem. Not sure about the rest.

Wow. That takes me back. I knew it was either pr#3 or pr#6.

I can't believe that last time I actually used one of these things, I was in Grade 3. 1983. And I can't believe that I still sorta remembered the command. Spooky, ain't it?

I remember running Bank Street Writer, Gertrude's Boots, and a couple of video games that we'd snuck in. Man oh man, that takes me back.

I remember that the disk drives were attached to the controller with small ribbon cables; no additional leads for power. And, looking back at it now, I know the drives were just modified Shugarts with Apple stickers glued on.

I also remember one of them failing once. As improbable as this sounds - and maybe I remember it wrong - I remember the classroom started to stink of plastic burning. And I remember the teacher pulling a smoking diskette out of the drive. I don't remember if the disk was melted or not; looking back on it, I suspect someone stuck something metal into the drive and it fried something, and the smoke just happened to be around the diskette as it came out of the drive.

It took me years to get over my fear of 5.25" disk drives. 8" and 11" drives still give me the heebie-jeebies.

BTW, anybody remember the DuoDrives? Looked nifty, but damn if you weren't screwed if one went down.

Yup. But there are lots of things like that now. I never used a DuoDrive, but I can imagine that the mechanism just mates up to a custom faceplate. How is that different from the disk drive on any notebook computer, or for that matter, lots of the highly-stylized HP Pavilions and stuff today? I agree it's still icky, but proprietary parts obviously have a long history in the computer industry.

On the other hand, I'd love to put a power eject floppy drive onto my computer, a la Macintosh.

When I used a Mac, they laughed because I had no command prompt. When I used Linux, they laughed because I had no GUI.

When I used an Amiga, they laughed because my command prompt was in my GUI.

And I had to mount and unmount my disks.

And the disk drive ticked every two seconds.

Bastards.

Starting point

[Koffe]

Please check out these HOWTO's

http://www.linux.org/help/ldp/howto/Text-Termina l-HOWTO.html

http://www.linux.org/help/ldp/howto/mini/Mac-Ter minal.html

The latter answers your question!

To all people writing to Ask Slashdot:
Please check the HOWTO's before asking these silly questions, or in other words RTFM.

Re:Starting point

[Cable]

They rejected my submissions but they accepted this one? WTF?

So like, do I have to ask stupid questions to get accepted as an article writer? :)

MacOS 6.0.4

[GW Hayduke]

I believe that is the OS that I am running on the machine mentioned below this thread... Sorry....

Re:Get Kermit, ZTerm of PPP

[gmhowell]

Is WhiteKnight/RedRyder still available anywhere?

Get Kermit, ZTerm of PPP

[jarkko]

If you want to keep running MacOS you basically have two choices:

1. Get a terminal program and a suitable null modem cable. Follow the text-terminal howto (or whatever) and you're go. I've tried old SEs with ZTerm and Kermit (ZTerm was nice:)

2. Get ConfigPPP and the works and set up a PPP link. Then fetch NCSA Telnet or BetterTelnet.

Re:linux for old Macs.

[MaxVlast]

Keep in mind that the Classic is a 68000 machine. I don't know if there are any UNIX or UNIX-like OSs that run on the m68000. Probably NetBSD if anything.

--
Max V.

i was just researching the same thing!!

[yomoma]

here are some sites you may want to check out:

• http://www.lowendmac.net
• http://www.edprint.demon.co.uk/se
• http://weitzman.net/classicmacs

there are of course, many more similar sites. If anyone has done anything cool post it here! Also a great resource if you live in the SF bay area is Weird Stuff, they have tons of old macs for sale and the salespeople are quite knowledgable.

Re:linux for old Macs.

[gaudior]

You don't need ethernet to use it as a dumb terminal, just Zterm and a serial cable.
--

Nah

[scruffyMark]

The only UNIX that's even close to working on a 68000 is NetBSD, and that won't even work on a Classic either.

Further Confusion, old macs, and terminals...

[chipuni]

Close to the topic... People have already posted how to use Macs as terminals.

Further Confusion is a yearly science fiction-like convention devoted to anthropomorphics. Since most of the members are computer addicts, we wanted to set up a computer room.

One friend of mine, Richard Penner, heard that the local Weird Stuff Warehouse had a special on old Mac IIs. $5 per machine, as is.

My VW Vanagon was pressed into service, and we filled it with ancient Macintoshes. With each old Mac having about 5 Mhz of power, we barely fit about 350 Mhz of computing power into my van.

Of the seventy, Richard put together about forty fully functional terminals. That, a good Linux server, and a hub, made for a good, cheap terminal room.

Re:linux for old Macs.

[Phr3n3tik]

I've heard that Linux for the 68Ks requires an FPU add-on card for the current bulds... That means 030 ore higher, no LCII support without an expansion card.. Not to mention you've got to get an ethernet card... (External for a classic I'd assume..)

Re:linux for old Macs.

[Phr3n3tik]

I think I'd be a KarmaWhore, if anyone read these articles... :P

Classic Series
Status on some of these machines is unknown. In specific, we have confirmed boots of the SE/30 and Classic II. SCSI and serial should work on all these machines. CUDA-style ADB (all but SE/30) is working in several kernels. At this point in time, all models must have a FPU. Please note that a Classic II is also known as a Performa 200.
Current status on Color Classic is unknown.

linux for old Macs.

[grammar nazi]

I recommend Linux.

PowerPC with a PCI bus? Go with Yellow Dog Linux or LinuxPPC.

PowerPC with a NuBus bus? Go with MkLinux. That's what I use.

Old mac like the one that you mention? Try out Linux m68k.

The m68k is the processor of pre-PowerPCs. Supposedly, Red Hat, Debian, and Whiteline have distributions with the Linux m68k processor. I'm anxious to try these out because I have a old Mac beast that has three 68k processors. This thing will fly!!!! I doubt that you'll get any window manager to run. It may only be useful as a terminal. My triprocessor will be useful as three terminals ;-)