Samba Runs Into Naming Problems In Germany

roadrunner2000 writes: "Some German company claims to have the right on the brandname "samba", so they try to sue everyone in Germany which uses the open source project "Samba". Get more information from Heise Online" From the Fish Translation, it seems that the acronym SAMBA stands for something else in German. If you can add more information, post it below.

Comments

What SAMBA means

[s1r_m1xalot]

In this context SAMBA seems to mean Sue Anybody that Might Be Alive

Here's What The German SAMBA Is

[Omicron]

Okay, like the post said, SAMBA is an acronym. It stands for Standard Anmeldung Meldewesen Banken, which essentially says something like "Standard log-on procedures/protocols for banks". It's a standard method for banks to communicate w/ each other....apparently proprietary and German. Anyway, I just thought a few people might be interested in knowing what it was from someone that actually is fluent in english and german instead of a translation from a web site. Have fun...

Re:Here's What The German SAMBA Is

[Joao]

Okay then. As a Brazilian, I hereby announce that my people will be suing Germany's Standard Anmeldung Meldewesen Banken, for using the name of our trademarked musical style. Our layers will be contacting the German company, as soon as we're finished dancing. ;)

Nothing wrong with protecting a trademark.

[BaronM]

How would we all feel if some foreign company started distributing "GNU software" in the US, assuming that since they had been calling their software GNU in their country for some time they should be able to sell it under that name here, too? I expect we'd feel that they should call it something else, since the GNU name is already taken in the US software market where it has a particular meaning. If they persisted, I daresay a lawsuit might be files to compel them to stop.

So, there is a preexisting product in the German software market called 'SAMBA', and the company that makes it wants to protect it's investment in that name. I think they're right. The SAMBA project should refer to the product be a different name in the German market. Even Anheiser-Busch has to refrain from selling a beer called Budweiser in some markets, because that name was already taken.

There are good reasons for protecting trademarks, and OSS should play by the same rules as everybody else.

Explanation (from a German)

[at-b]

Okay, here's the deal:

In Germany, a firm called CMG seems to have registered a trademark for the word 'Samba'. That trademark refers to banking software, which seems to handle all kinds of banking transactions, using forms, etc. If you feel like wading through a longish list of features in German, see their product site.

CMG, makers of that software, have sent out snail mails to all people subscribed on a German Samba mailing list (i.e. the UNIX SMB software), and have demanded that all users immediately stop using, distributing, or advertising said software. Yeah, that's right: if you're using it, you have to stop doing so right now.

CMG is doing a so-called 'Abmahnung', i.e. a non-judicial process in which a private business/person can demand money from someone disrespecting their trademarks/trade laws. The total value of this process - CMG wouldn't say how many people are affected - is said to be about 100 000 German marks (DM), which is about $60,000. Their lawyers are also demanding 1900 DM from each of the parties involved. That's right - you were using Samba, you got the letter, you have to pay their lawyers about $1200 - until August 8. They'll probably sue the involved parties for that sum of money afterwards.

The c't article adds that Volker Lendecke, one of the German Samba developers - in order to avoid such trademark issues - had already registered a Samba pictorial logo trademark in Germany last year.

Such 'Abmahnung' demands are pretty common in Germany, lawyer firms routinely search advertising directories, etc. for anything that may be considered ambiguous in any way, or infringing on anyone's trademarks, and send out ludicruous demands out, often to people who have no way of acting against them. Whilst it's easy to claim that Germans are idiots and no such thing would ever happen in the US (free speech, etc), please remember that frivolous suits are pretty uncommon in Germany: people claiming money for eating peanuts and suing because they were allergic to nuts and there was no 'WARNING: May contain nuts' label on the box, or people suing because they spilled hot McDonalds coffee on themselves, would be laughed out of court in Germany. This is a fairly normal thing - the same would happen in the US if, say, I created a mySQL spin-off and called my new database 'Oracle' or 'Interbase', I'd be in a lot of trouble for trademark infringement. *shrug* It's that simple. Firms have to defend their trademarks, or they lose them if they become diluted.

Alex T-B
St Andrews

FYI: This is a current major problem in Germany

[Hanno]

This is part of an ongoing problem here in Germany. I am not a lawyer, so here's my layman's summary.

It is possible to register the commercial use of a product name for a certain business category. This is a good thing, of course, since this is meant to help you protect your trademark. Once you have registered your product's name, you can sue anyone who abuses this product name.

E.g., as in this case, there is a company who owns the right to use the product name "Samba" with computer-related services, and thus, they can threaten to sue anyone who abuses "their" product name in the same category.

However, they cannot go after any dance school here in Germany that happens to be named "School of Samba" or something like this. It's a different business category.

Now, the government agency that is registering these names is obviously rather clueless, as are several courts here in Germany.

A few years back, a (very) controversial German lawyer started to sue any computer reseller who mentions the "Triton" motherboard chipset in his ads or price lists, because he was defending a client's rights to the product name "Tricon". Strangely enough, because of the "striking name similarity", this lawyer has won several times.

Right now, this lawyer is helping another client defend his rights to the computer-services related product "Explorer".

Yes, if your product is named "Explorer" and you sell or distribute it in Germany, you'll have to pay a hefty fee to this company. "To distribute" also means linking to it(!) and this lawyer is sending out numerous bills to website owners running a list of Shareware links to products such as "FTP Explorer".

Yes, it is claimed that Microsoft has paid a fee to be "allowed" to use the word "Explorer" in Germany, too.

This is a big major pain in the *ss here in Germany and an obvious abuse of German law. They are going after the little guys by sending their bills to site owners and those who merely mirror a site. Recently, c't, a major German computer magazine, put a few applicates which used "Explorer" in their name on a CD-ROM that came with the magazine. This has promptly started a legal battle which began by threats to sue every single newspaper shop in Germany selling c't.

This lawyer has become a bit of a persona-non-grata in the German net community, but he himself really enjoys this fame and status and brags a lot about his new "Explorer"-related court cases in the German usenet groups de.soc.recht.misc or de.soc.recht.datennetze. In fact, I am sure that he'd love to know that folks talk about him on a foreign forum.

Anyway, all this madness has lead to a disturbing trend of everyone threatening anyone else to sue about a product name. Try to search for "Abmahnung" on Dejanew or in the Heise Newsticker.

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