Broadband In Rural Areas?

MStirling asks: "OK, here's the deal. I live in the middle of nowhere. DSL is out of the question because the CO is like 27k feet away from my house. Cable is out of the question because the cable company would make me pay to run the line half a mile over the highway and after I paid this inital cost, they'd proceed to let my neighbors steal my bandwidth without having to pay the same gigantic fees. We're talking several thousand dollars just to get the line, not including the all important arm and a leg for the installation fees, monthly service, or what the one local ISP (who currently holds a monopoly on the cable modem market) charges. Right now I'm stuck on a 56k dialup, which has never seen a connection rake higher than 28.8k. What I want to know is if there is some other option I haven't looked at (Besides DirecPC because that's one way service and they charge by the hour) or something in the pipeline that will solve my problem. Any info you could come up with would be appreciated."

Comments

A rural sysadmin speaks out

[GW Hayduke]

As a sys admin for a rural ISP who is delving into Broadband shortly it's been really nice to hear some of these posts. At least the majority of these rants are going to telco/cable companies and not the ISP. Really, our hands are pretty much tied as it comes to getting access to most people.
We work with 2 local/small telcos and 2 larger ones (corporate conglomerate types). The local ones are pretty hip with maintaining a QOS and are self proclaimed "fast followers". I think our biggest mistake (the ISP) was when we jumped on the v90 bandwagon too soon. It has been my experience that

1. Internal Modems are pretty much shitty across the board... granted some companies (3com/USR and Supra to name a couple) are pretty good at keeping their modem firm/software up to snuff.

2. RAS server companies are pretty hesitant about "upgrading" their TAOS/COMOS to keep up with "new"/"cheap" industry standard modems that keep coming out on these machines that you can get for free, etc...

3. You might buy an expensive machine, but nine times out of ten the modem might be a $10 POS..
( My analogy to the less savvy customers is What Kind of Tires did you buy on your car?..... Look at the recent recall of the tires on your expensive Ford Explorer for further insight)
Granted the average or even = average /.er pretty much knows their system / drivers, but then again the internet access business has grown from a "toy" of the hacker types into a must-have god-given right of everyone it seems

4. Wireless/satellite might be an option for some, but I know my DSS goes out in bad weather occasionally, but do I call DirectTV???? nope... I just know it's the weather and do something else. Most of our customers are immediately on the phone to our help desk during a friggin hurricane wondering why their connection is crappy/cut short... and then that's after the phone lines are finally restored !!!!

and I guess my point is "yes" dialup is going the way of the 8-track/BetaMax/and regular gas, but there are still going to be areas that will ONLY be able to do dialup, and even with the best equipment (on both the user and ISP end) will get less than optimum connection/throughput speeds due to phone companies. Most telcos will only "guarantee"(and I say that loosely) a 9600 connection.. Hell with that sort of guarantee here's a suggestion for those with REALLY Bad service...
get a buddy with a fat connection ISDN/DSL/etc...
setup a couple old supra 33.6 modems on serial ports and run pppd (you can even tweak W98SE to do the same thing).
56K can't work without digital RAS, but a 33.6 to 33.6 connection is pretty solid, and the throughput is much better than a shitty 56K connection.

Eventually the telco's are going to catch up with their empty promises, but please remember there are some unscrupulous (sp?) ISP's out there, but a LOT of us are out there trying to help.. but our hands are tied by the telcos, as they always have been.
Standard troubleshooting procedures have found that the "problems" with most internet connections have to do with the medium that they are running through. Telco's hardly ever setup their network considering that connection times would be greater than the average phone call (~5-10 minutes) and in some locations we still have customers with party lines... try that one on for size!!!
Well I'm just letting off steam, but thanks guys.. after hearing these posts, I'm glad to hear that not EVERYONE thinks that It's always the ISP's fault

BTW I've also noticed that the customers who lose $40K on the stock market after AOL/IM's server crashed or a backbone provider had a fibre cut are also those who have problems paying $19.95 a month :)

Thanks for listening

Modem Up/Satalite Down

[tolldog]

I have seen where some satalite companies offer such a service and the rates seem to be decent... not much more than to use a cable modem or dsl...
And the down stream rate is supposed to be good as well.

how creative do you want to get?

[chuckfee]

rural internet access is a pain. However,
if you can get creative and use some solutions
to your benefit you might have a chance. Most
of these ideas are off the top of my head but
a lot of them depend on how big your pocketbooks
are. If you don't mind spending the money then
it is possible. whether it's worth it is
another story completely.

1.) wireless. I'm talking some sort of line
of sight. microwave will cost a couple grand
but sometimes you can lease it. It's a line
of sight deal so you might need a tower.

2.) have friends in town? You could piggyback
on their cheap broadband line by installing
a NAT box (linux of course) and sharing the
cable/dsl line. Once you have the IP access
get a 56kb or t1 line from your friend's home
to yours. A point to point 1.5mbit line in
the same LATA usually costs about $200 a month
plus $10 - $20 per mile. throw in a pair of
used cisco 2501's from ebay and you have your
own WAN for about $1500. It's expensive but
it will sure look good on a resume.

3.) Use a point-to-point DSL line and combine it
with #2. Here in uswest land you can get a
DSL line from point to point. Make one end
your house and the other end your IP service
and you might be in business. On the other
hand I think this stuff goes through the
CO too so distance might still be a concertn.
on the plus side it's 1/4 the cost of a t1.

bottom line is that this stuff tends to be
expensive. Living in the country has its
rewards sometime but being on the technological
bleeding edge ain't one of them. Do you have
anyone nearby who could help shoulder the
cost? one you've got a connection out in the
sticks I'm sure you will be the envy of your
neighbors (at least until the cable company
strings line anyhow and then you're the proud
owner of a white elephant WAN.)

good luck.

--chuck

Re:how creative do you want to get?

[dattaway]

1.) wireless. I'm talking some sort of line of sight. microwave will cost a couple grand

Wireless can be done cheaply too. Here's a low cost wireless network howto someone did after a slashdot article on the subject a few moons ago. In my experience, microwave networks work and are cheap too.

Frame relay?

[Russ Nelson]

I'm 27K feet from the CO as well. I've got a frame relay connection that costs me $400/month plus what my ISP would charge if I didn't work for them. :) They're using a pairgain 384Kbps DSL with a repeater part-way. I used to have a 2Mbps wireless connection to Clarkson University which worked fine, but they shut that down. :( I got T-1 speeds out of that. If I didn't have the frame relay, I'd start my own wireless ISP, to serve myself and share the cost with others.
-russ

DSL isn't *totally* out of the question..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm at about 29k ft from my CO, and I'm sitting happily on my iDSL line. iDSL unfortunately tops out at 144k, but all the good routers let you bond multiple lines together for double the speed. (My Netopia allows for up to 4 iDSL lines bonded together for a theoretical max of 576kbps)

If all you're looking for is low pingage, with a bit (hey, it's a few steps up from 56k) of a bandwidth increase, you might want to look at iDSL as an option. My access runs at about $69/mo.. price may vary in your area.

And as others have already commented, you could go with wireless as an option. Find someone close by who wants high speed net access as well, and split it with them. I've always discussed doing such things with friends, but so far it hasn't really panned out. (First problem being that I'm surrounded by hills on all sides, and most of my friends are on the *other* sides of those hills.. no line of sight)

If you get enough friends in on it, you could even splurge for a T1 or higher.. :-)

Good Old ISDN

[InitZero]

Yes, ISDN is old technology and not all that fast (only 128kbps raw and I generally get 170 kbps compressed) but it's better than 28.8kbps. I get ISDN for $59 a month. Add to that a 3Com OfficeConnect ISDN router with built in four-port hub, NAT and a bunch of other nifty features for $300 (or close) and you've got a nice setup.

In my area I get a 200 channel hours of use a month for the base rate and a penny a minute per channel above that. In the two years I've had ISDN, I've never used more than 200 channel hours. (If I ever spend more than 200 hours online a month from home, I've got bigger problems than a per-minute charge; I've got a lack of life problem.)

I've looked into DSL but since I'm 20,540 feet from the CO, I'm limited to 144 kbps. For comparable cost at the number of hours I use, it just ain't worth the hassel of changing the server over.

Have you looked into ISDN?

InitZero

Hurry up and wait.

[FPhlyer]

I also live in a rural area that does not have high-speed access. The name of my community is, quite literally, "Slapout, Alabama". Yes. Someone really named the place "Slapout." I have looked at several options in the past (ISDN, DirecPC, etc.) and have not found an option that is totally agreeable. However, there is some good news for me. Recently, our cable television service was interupted and we had the pleasure of watching several hours of beautiful "snow" instead of the History Channel (the only thing that my cable company provides that is worth watching.) When we called the cable company (Time Warner), we were informed that they were upgrading our cable service and we would soon have the option of both Digital Cable service and, of course, Cable Modem internet access. So the answer might be to forego spending too much money on a solution that you won't be happy with and just waiting for the access to come to you. 56Kbps dialup connections aren't the greatest thing in the world, but at least it's not too pricey.

I'm trying to start a wireless ISP

[bluGill]

Interestinly enough, just this week I've conceived the idea of starting a wireless ISP in my town. Even though I'm Add to the above: within a few mile radius is farm country, but with many lakes that "rich" folks live on. I'm thinking put a radio on some poor farmers Silo, in exchange for his internet access, and sell to the city folks so they have a the ability to work from home.

I'm still in the early stages, but it looks like the above plan is workable. (Anyone know a good upstream ISP for me work from? I've already found a buisness T1 customer and I'm not up yet)

I almost forgot COBRA/MULTILINK

[GW Hayduke]

The other thing I have done for some other offices in the middle of the Styx is setup multi-link (If your ISP will allow it) or grab yourself a WebRamp 310i and set it up for a couple different lines/accounts (Webramps use both Multilink and Cobra protocols to bond the lines) I've seen some people connect better with 2 analogs bonded than with an ISDN connection not only that, the webramps are a little pricey (~$500 U.S.D.) , but they come with built in NAT support as well as a built in 4-5 port HUB.. Perfect for the home LAN
They are also SNMP Based with a built in web interface so you can truly use them cross-platform-wise :)
But that only really helps if the price of the second/third phone line will pay off, but hey!!! It's an option!

Re:Wireless

[heliocentric]

Note: I'm not the orig. poster, but a little web surfing found these links that are probably what he or she was refering to:

gilat is gilat.com

and isky is isky.net.

I hope these are what the orig. poster inteded, but to help you out here I can tell you that isky is has no price on the site stating, "Exact pricing will be finalized nearer to our late 2001 service launch," but they have all sorts of neat info on their satilite locations in the sky so you'll know where to aim your playstation missle if you are upset at the service.

Gilat didn't jump up and hit me in the face with pricing or any ordering informaion for that matter, but I'm probably just not clicking on the right silly-sounding-word-that-sounds-like-every-other-c hoice (TM) (choices are things such as SkyBlaster, SkySurfer, WebSat, etc..)

Consider IDSL

[recklessNomad]

At 144K up/down it's not exactly broadband but it's a whole lot better than dialup. It can be supported at up to 36K feet from the CO. I recently got a line for which I pay $50/mo, no installation fees (didn't even charge me for the "modem") and that includes both the line and the ISP charges. I also got a static ip address, and have been very pleased.

You can check out http://www.dslreports.com to see whether idsl is available in your area.

Wireless

[Mr T]

Gilat has a 2 way satallite solution, it's pretty nice but only works with windows as of yet.

iSky has something, I'm not sure where it is though.

Microwave can be cheap once you have it set up, I know people in towns that are getting it because the telco won't give them DSL yet. It's point-to-point and line of sight so it has limits. In some rural areas this seems like it should be a great potential business. Collectively buy a T1, hook it to the local school and then do point-to-point microwave.

In the meantime...

[Remote]

You know what really pisses me off? These Telcos keep advertising how they are changing the world and connecting every single corner on the planet when in fact they provided little more than a lousy service, as a rule, and only where it is profitable.

Apart from this rant, in the meantime I think you should take a look at how to improve your modem connection. I have a 56k PCI card that never gave me more than 14.4k. Theres no ISDN where I live and DSL is US$150,00/mo (not guaranteed to work above 64k!). No cable either (half a mile away). I can't afford a direct connection for home use.

So I bought an external USR and I could get 28,8k. I then replaced some 100ft of old wiring by a new twisted pair (which I overtwisted mysef) and went after what was going on. I had to replace my voltage stabilizer (you know, those switched bastards) and I could get 33,6k during the night and anything between 40 and 49k during the day. Odd, isn't it? It turned out that the dimer I have in my room (which probably works by generating a square PWM) was injecting a hell of a noise in the electrical circuit of the entire house. Turn the damn thing off and the connection gets clean. Unplugging the phone from the line when you connect is also reported to work in some cases. I saw a page about modem fine tuning a couple of months ago, I think it was 4 or 5 links away from the modem How-to, but I can't find the link now.

Good luck.

It's in the works

[Metuchen]

Last December, there was a story here on Slashdot about broadband access over power lines; The link is below. It looks like it is still in the works, but maybe you would be willing to be an alpha tester :-)

On a side note, lately I've seen a lot of modems fried by electrical storms; I would sure hate to see what would happen to your computer if you had one of these things plugged into it.

http://www.dmagazine.com/magazine/bd feature.html

Bonded lines? Microwave links?

[Wise Dragon]

From what I understand, with multiple phone lines it is possible to have 2 dialup sessions going at once, if the ISP will support it. I don't know what (if any) linux solutions exist for this, and it really isn't the same as an always-on connection, but it sounds like it would be cheaper by far!

Locally, we have a wireless (microwave IIRC) internet provider called XSpeed. They have an antenna up at a (lit at night) ski resort that overlooks the valley. They say "If you can see the lights at Bogus Basin, you can get XSpeed." I don't know if that is really the case, but I've considered trying. (I live approximately 50 miles from the antenna, but I can see the lights quite well).

Hope this helps

buy the new cable?

[Stephen Samuel]

Cable is out of the question because the cable company would make me pay to run the line half a mile over the highway and after I paid this inital cost, they'd proceed to let my neighbors steal my bandwidth without having to pay the same gigantic fees.

In this case, I'd say that -- If they're charging you to install the cable, you should claim ownership, and be able to collect charges from anybody else in the neighborhood who latches on. Either that, or pre-emptively request a share of the charges from your neighbors for the cost.

A second possibility might be to get permission to put 'your' cable modem right on the existing line, and get something like an air-port to beam the link across the road (personal wireless).