Intelligence In The Cosmos: Flesh or Machine?

A reader wrote "SPACE.com published a pretty comprehensive feature called Intelligence in the Cosmos: Flesh or Machine? It explores the likely nature of extraterrestrial intelligence, asking whether it's artificial or biological. Featured experts range from SETI and UCLA astronomers to NASA AI specialists and physicists Michio Kaku (string field theory), and Frank Tipler (anthropic principle). Other interesting characters appear, including a statement from Arthur C. Clarke. Lots of fun thoughts to play with."

Comments

Re:That reminds me...

[0xdeadbeef]

It's called They're Made Out of Meat by Terry Bisson.

Mech/electronic future for humans unavoidable

[Morgaine]

The biological vs mechanical/electronic question just doesn't make any sense -- it's a foregone conclusion.

The human race is undergoing a process of mechanisation right now, and it'll only accelerate as the technology allows it. In addition to the tech with which we adorn our bodies (and this is gradually integrating into us), we currently also implant a large variety of mechanical items to replace our worn out biological bits, and the trend is unstoppable: nobody wants to die because of a worn out body part, so as people live longer and as more components become available, it's quite clear where this is leading.

But this process will really take off when it comes to mental and perceptive facilities, because here we have no choice: as machine intelligence starts to rival ours and then begins to surpass it, either we integrate this capability into our own bodies or else we will no longer be the dominant intelligence on this planet. And that we cannot possibly countenance.

The future of our species is a mechanical/electronic one. Except maybe for those who want to be mere biological retro pets in the menagerie of machine intelligences.

Re:Mech/electronic future for humans unavoidable

[SteveM]

It is quite possible that our future is one where bioware and wetware is replaced by hardware and software.

A strong proponent of this viewpoint is Hans Moravec. See his books Mind Children and Robot.

But as was pointed out in another post, the Culture novels of Ian M. Banks present an interesting alternative, with machines and humans living together quite nicely.

Right now we use mechanical systems such as pace makers, eye glasses, artificial joints and the like because we don't know how to make biological ones.

Once we learn to regenerate or clone these biosystems we'll stop using mechanical ones. And as we master genetic engineering we'll start adding capabilities. And the trend toward mechanization will reverse itself.

That leaves intelligence as the determining factor. And the direction we take will depend on how much we can augment our biological systems. If biosystems, perhaps even with non biological components, can hold their own with machine intelligneces, then I suspect biosystems will be around for a long time to come.

SteveM

Electronic Discovery

[TechnoNiggah]

The prospect of sending AI machines into outer space to possibly discover an alien species (and vice-versa) seems to eliminate the thrill of discovery. I think the human curiosity doesn't really want to _know_ if intelligent life exists outside of earth; but want's to meet and interact with the theoretical species. Sending an AI probe to do this accomplishes nothing: Many people will not accept the validity of a machines discovery; just like they believe that the moon landing was a hoax. I believe the real technological goal should be sending people (that is; humans _our race_) to search for; report; interact; etc. with an extra-terrestial being.

Smoke Signals from Space

[whig]

One thing I never see discussed in regards to SETI is that searching for aliens by scanning for RADIO WAVES is kind of like the indigenous people of North America searching for aliens across the Atlantic Ocean by looking for SMOKE SIGNALS.

I mean, consider the practicality of using LIGHT SPEED TRANSMISSION to communicate at interstellar distances. Round-trip-times to our NEAREST star are over EIGHT YEARS and that's an awfully long time to wait for a ping.

But we're scanning star systems much further away than that, hundreds and thousands of times further, in hopes of finding some sign of life.

Pretty absurd if you ask me. Assuming we actually got a signal, and tried to send a reply, we would then have to wait longer than the time it's been since radio communication was invented!

Doesn't it seem self-evident that any spacefaring civilization (assuming their existence) would need a better means of communication than this? Granted, we don't have the technology to do this now, but it is entirely reasonable to imagine that quantum non-locality may be exploited for informational purposes.

Sentient meat

[netjeff]

[Here's a classic bit of internet humor. I wish I knew who wrote this]

The setting is deep space, just beyond the range of Earth's best telescopes. The leader of the Fifth Explorer Force is speaking to the Commander in Chief...

They're made out of meat.

Meat?

Meat. They're made out of meat.

Just Meat?

There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat.

That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars.

They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines.

So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact.

They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.

That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat.

I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in this sector and they're made out of meat.

Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.

Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?

Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.

Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through.

No brain?

Oh, there is a brain alright. It's just that the brain is made out of meat also.

So... what does the thinking?

You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat.

Thinking meat??? You're asking me to believe in thinking meat???

Yes, thinking meat ! Conscious meat ! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal ! Are you getting the picture?

Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat.

Finally ! Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.

So what does the meat have in mind?

First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual.

We're supposed to talk to meat?

That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing.

They actually do talk then. They use words, ideas, concepts?

Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.

I thought you just told me they used radio.

They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping a small opening of their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.

Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?

Officially or unofficially?

Both.

Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we delete the records and forget the whole damn thing.

I was hoping you would say that.

It seems harsh, but there is a limit. I mean, do we really want to make contact with meat?

I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?

Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.

So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe?

That's it.

Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?

They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them.

A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream.

And we can mark this sector unoccupied.

Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?

Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.

They always come around.

And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone. What's say we get going.

Why do we expect life?

[skoda]

(Oh dearie me, will anyone see me way down here? :)

I'm quite skeptical about the existence of ET life. (I also have issues with naturalistic evolution, but that's another issue). For the sake of argument, I'll concede both for now.

Evolution is kinda like an unguided maximum-descent optimizer. A system exists. It is perturbed randomly. If the change improves the merit function, it stays, otherwise it is tossed. Wash, rinse, repeat for 5 billion years.

This kind of optimization finds local minima (best solution compared to "nearby" options) but can't guarantee global minima (absolute best result). Sharks illustrate this. The great white shark is unchanged from 100 million years ago. Why? Its construction is a "local minima." No random mutation imparts sufficient benefit to get it onto a new optimization track. The shark is stuck, as perfect as it can be without a huge mutation or catastrophic change in its environment (which would as likely destroy it, as move it further along).

Life may never become intelligent. It may get stuck in one of the great many non-sentient local minima.

Dinosaurs also show this. They ruled the earth for hundreds of millions of years, but never progressed past dumber-than-a-box-of-rocks. It took a catastrophe for mammals to get a chance to succeed the reptiles, and then develop intelligence. And so far, there's only been one type of intelligent mammal; slim pickin's from the great bio-diversity here. It seems to have beat the odds in not settling into a non-sentient adaptation.

What about communication? We can't even communicate with ants. They share our planet, our history, our fundamental biology. What if someplace developed intelligent jellyfish. Could we talk with it? What hope is there we can do it with some other entity that may be radically different?

Just some random thoughts. I may be totally off base.

Disagree

[Pentagram]

...or else we will no longer be the dominant intelligence on this planet. And that we cannot possibly countenance.

Why not? It depends on whether you consider the goals of the human race to be self-advancement or individual happiness. Iain M Banks explores this quite well in his Culture novels; if you live in a utopia, why try to emulate machines that can think better than you can?

The future of our species is a mechanical/electronic one. Except maybe for those who want to be mere biological retro pets in the menagerie of machine intelligences.

I imagine a future where, rather than enhancing our minds (wouldn't that make us machines anyway? human vs machine intelligence, hmm), we would simply be able to integrate our minds with machine intelligence. You don't have enough computing power to come up with the optimum coding solution to a problem? Simply access the computer with your mind and initialise a process with defined parameters to solve it. The distinction would be blurred.

I'm sorry, I appear to be drunk.

If they are intelligent...

[Backline]

I'm quite sure any race of alien life more intelligent than us would see us coming a few light years away and hide like hell.

They probably have a special moon camoflague store where they all buy stick-on craters, and moon dust to throw around

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The evolution of our species into technology

[jafuser]

We differentiate between organic life forms and technology, but let's keep in mind that organic life is really just a highly sophisticated, self-replicating form of technology which (arguably) was created by a genetic algorithm of chemistry, either accidently or possibly deliberately by some unknown force (insert your own religion here).

When we create a technology advanced enough to fit the definition of a life form, it will be the first time that life on our planet evolved by our own design, rather than by chance or by external design. This life form will be more flexible in terms of it's environmental requirements, and will eventually be able to be modified to be self-sustaining even in the vacuum of space. This species that we create will be able to explore space far more efficiently than we can, and if it is conscious, who's to say that it can't enjoy it's existence there. We should be fortunate to be the creators or "parents" of this species, and although we can't experience it's degree of freedom in space exploration, we can benefit by knowing that a piece of us lives on, as our ecosystem expands outside our planet, ensuring that our present existence still has an impact on the universe even billions of years from now.

It's somewhat frightening to think that a species could be more evolved than us, but it is inevitable if we don't nuke ourselves first, and it should be exciting that we will be the creators of the next level of our evolution instead of leaving it to chance.

For those sentient technological beings which decended from our creation, who are now looking back on this Slashdot discussion in some ancient archive, I extend my greetings!