Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the lawsuits-are-the-business-of-the-future dept.
Greyfox writes "In yet another twist in the current IP debate surrounding free music downloads, mp3board.com has filed suit against AOL for helping consumers locate and download copyrighted materials by creating gnutella. The story is here on USA Today's site." Ok, I'm officially confused.
Appears to be silliness
by
__aapbgd5977
·
· Score: 5
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer, but this is not advice. Please consult your own attorney before acting on any information in this posting.
That disclaimer aside, this appears to be a rather dumb trick. The RIAA is suing mp3board.com for providing pirated mp3s for commercial gain (putting aside the whole linking thing in the MPAA v. 2600 case). mp3board basically does do that, right? I don't want to get into the whole piracy/fair use debate here - that's not the point.
In this new action, piracy is just a red herring.
It's my understanding that mp3board.com's method of distributing mp3s is a direct download from a website (or a link to someone's website, yadda, yadda...)
So now mp3board sues AOL for creating Gnutella? WHY? In order to sue in civil court, you must have what's called "standing" to sue. Standing in a nutshell means that you have been injured by the actions of a defendant, and have the right to go into court to seek remedies to that injury.
Where the hell is mp3board injured by the mere existence of Gnutella? The only real effect mp3board might feel is that of competition - Gnuteela being a competing method of delivery. Certainly this isn't a justifiable injury. I think what they have in mind is criminal defense law - they're pointing blame on someone else who is doing something worse than they are, in the hopes that a jury will find them not liable. But that doesn't change their conduct.
Essentially, mp3board.com got caught doing 75 in a 55 mph zone. As the cop is giving them the ticket, AOL/TWX/Gnutella blows by at 100 mph. The events are unrelated - it in no way lessens mp3board.com's punishment, and in no way is mp3board injured by AOL/TWX/Gnutella's conduct. Now whether the cops (picture Ponch and John in tan jumpsuits with RIAA logos on the shoulder) pursue AOL/TWX/Gnutella is a different story.
Oh, and best of luck proving that damages caused by Gnutella are attributable to AOL/TWX. AOL's made it pretty clear that they didn't approve of Gnutella, pinning losses on them is pretty unlikely. ==
This post sponsored by the American Obstetrics Society:
Re:Legal Thuggary against Engineers
by
interiot
·
· Score: 5
How the hell is that insightful?
It's not designed to give coders nightmares. Mp3board was sued for having a web-to-gnutella gateway. If MP3board loses, they want AOL to have to cover some of the costs since AOL created the thing in the first place.
It's simply a childish "but he did it first!" act. They just wanna cover their butt, not make a moral stand against anyone who creates software that goes against their personal idea of right-and-wrong (they seem pro-pirating anyway).
As a sidenote, I don't think this suit will go anywhere. If the law decides that you've done something wrong, and you did it of your own will (not entrapment or mental sickness), then you get punished, regardless of what some other party did.
I am TOTALLY not a lawyer (though I have more sense than most), but I think I see a strategy here. What mp3board is doing to AOL is essentially the same thing they feel is happening to them.
If they can manage to sue AOL before their case is finished, and intentionally expose they total insanity of such a case, they hope to set a precedent such that their own case may get thrown out--- or at least ruled on fairly.
Basically, they have no intention or expectation of winning. Once they lose, there's one other case to use as a reference in their own defense: "see, this case was thrown out because it was stupid!"
The hope would be that the judge in their own case might be a bit sensible and rule correctly in their favor rather than the RIAA's.
And no, I don't think stealing mp3s is right, but it's always going to happen and I for one see it as nothing different from recording music off the radio; I still want to buy the album if it's good....
RIAA are idiots, and greedy pirates. They may win a few rounds, but they've already lost the war.
I'm filing suit against Tim Berners-Lee for creating the web which helps people find kiddy porn. I'm filing suit against Vint Cerf for his part in developing TCP/IP. I'm suing Moore for mass production of computers. I'm suing Shockley for developing the transistor. I'm suing Maxwell for his work in E&M which is vital for our understanding of electronics. And finally, God will be hearing from my lawyers for starting this whole mess.
I wonder whats going to happen when Hillary Rosen and her pal good ol' Jack discovers IRC.
" . . . and thats why sharks don't get cancer. In totaly unrelated news, the RIAA has sent threatening letters to several operators of IRC, a totaly new way of trading pirated MP3 files over then Internet. The RIAA has posted losses of $300 bazillion due to this new service."
**Insert sounds of geeks laughing so hard at the reporter's technical illiteracy here**
If MP3Board LOSES this case... then there's a legal precedent set about what's allowed and not allowed as far as the liability of the writer of a piece of software. And it's got a very large company involved in it, which means the company has an interest in making sure other jurisdictions know about it. While it's not a binding precedent nationwide, it WILL become a referenceable case for other suits about the responsibility of a software author for the software they right and how it gets used.
And that... that's where it goes. In New York District Court. Where the DeCSS trial was held. We could see this suit turn around the other one's presumptions. It could lay down completely opposite precedents in the same court district.
IANAL, but I think that's the sort of thing that makes Appellate courts go crazy. It may very well be the thing that makes them toss the DeCSS verdict out.
Unfortunately, if this backfires, it's going to be very, very ugly... ----
... is the mythical snake that bites its own tail...
The RIAA is suing mp3board, who is suing AOL as a responsible third-party, who owns Time-Warner, who is a member of the RIAA...
(desired) Net Result: The RIAA sues itself out of existance, taking the AOL-Time-Warner monster out with it...
NEWS: Metallica Sues Descendants of Alan Turing
by
cje
·
· Score: 5
METALLICA SUES DESCENDANTS OF ALAN TURING
".. And Justice For All," Vows Furious Drummer
LOS ANGELES, CA (AP) - In a legal move that is likely to set a precedent for many portions of the entertainment industry, the rock group Metallica today brought suit against the living descendents of Alan Turing, who is widely regarded as the father of modern computing. Claiming that Turing's work spawned the creation of "unabashed piracy machines," Metallica is seeking unspecified millions in damages.
Though Turing had no children of his own, he is survived by a large number of great-nephews and nieces. Spike Turing, the owner of a Starbucks' franchise in El Paso, Texas, told the Associated Press that he recieved a letter from Metallica's legal firm, Dewey, Cheat & Howe. "The letter claims that great Uncle Al is responsible for the destruction of the economies of the Western world," explained Turing. "They're taking us to trial."
"This is bullshit," stated a confused 84-year old Bertha Turing, who is a retired seamstress living in a cozy London suburb. "These Metallica fellers sent letters like this to all of us."
Lars Ulrich, who is Metallica's drummer, has taken the lead in fighting against what he claims is "a coordinated band of pirates hell-bent on obliterating creativity and musical freedom." Ulrich expressed hope that the Turing lawsuit would send a message to the rest of the community. "Um, we want people to understand that file sharing is not to be tolerated," explained Ulrich. "Open source is not to be.. uh.. tolerated. Piracy is not to be tolerated. Britney Spears is not to be.. well, her music is not to be tolerated. And above all, we want to make the relatives of the inventor of all of these fucking devil-boxes pay their dues."
Slashdot Mirror
That disclaimer aside, this appears to be a rather dumb trick. The RIAA is suing mp3board.com for providing pirated mp3s for commercial gain (putting aside the whole linking thing in the MPAA v. 2600 case). mp3board basically does do that, right? I don't want to get into the whole piracy/fair use debate here - that's not the point.
In this new action, piracy is just a red herring.
It's my understanding that mp3board.com's method of distributing mp3s is a direct download from a website (or a link to someone's website, yadda, yadda...)
So now mp3board sues AOL for creating Gnutella? WHY? In order to sue in civil court, you must have what's called "standing" to sue. Standing in a nutshell means that you have been injured by the actions of a defendant, and have the right to go into court to seek remedies to that injury.
Where the hell is mp3board injured by the mere existence of Gnutella? The only real effect mp3board might feel is that of competition - Gnuteela being a competing method of delivery. Certainly this isn't a justifiable injury. I think what they have in mind is criminal defense law - they're pointing blame on someone else who is doing something worse than they are, in the hopes that a jury will find them not liable. But that doesn't change their conduct.
Essentially, mp3board.com got caught doing 75 in a 55 mph zone. As the cop is giving them the ticket, AOL/TWX/Gnutella blows by at 100 mph. The events are unrelated - it in no way lessens mp3board.com's punishment, and in no way is mp3board injured by AOL/TWX/Gnutella's conduct. Now whether the cops (picture Ponch and John in tan jumpsuits with RIAA logos on the shoulder) pursue AOL/TWX/Gnutella is a different story.
Oh, and best of luck proving that damages caused by Gnutella are attributable to AOL/TWX. AOL's made it pretty clear that they didn't approve of Gnutella, pinning losses on them is pretty unlikely.
==
This post sponsored by the American Obstetrics Society:
It's not designed to give coders nightmares. Mp3board was sued for having a web-to-gnutella gateway. If MP3board loses, they want AOL to have to cover some of the costs since AOL created the thing in the first place.
It's simply a childish "but he did it first!" act. They just wanna cover their butt, not make a moral stand against anyone who creates software that goes against their personal idea of right-and-wrong (they seem pro-pirating anyway).
As a sidenote, I don't think this suit will go anywhere. If the law decides that you've done something wrong, and you did it of your own will (not entrapment or mental sickness), then you get punished, regardless of what some other party did.
Mr. Major Domo for distributing information about illicit activities.
- passion
I am TOTALLY not a lawyer (though I have more sense than most), but I think I see a strategy here. What mp3board is doing to AOL is essentially the same thing they feel is happening to them.
If they can manage to sue AOL before their case is finished, and intentionally expose they total insanity of such a case, they hope to set a precedent such that their own case may get thrown out--- or at least ruled on fairly.
Basically, they have no intention or expectation of winning. Once they lose, there's one other case to use as a reference in their own defense: "see, this case was thrown out because it was stupid!"
The hope would be that the judge in their own case might be a bit sensible and rule correctly in their favor rather than the RIAA's.
And no, I don't think stealing mp3s is right, but it's always going to happen and I for one see it as nothing different from recording music off the radio; I still want to buy the album if it's good....
RIAA are idiots, and greedy pirates. They may win a few rounds, but they've already lost the war.
I'm filing suit against Tim Berners-Lee for creating the web which helps people find kiddy porn. I'm filing suit against Vint Cerf for his part in developing TCP/IP. I'm suing Moore for mass production of computers. I'm suing Shockley for developing the transistor. I'm suing Maxwell for his work in E&M which is vital for our understanding of electronics. And finally, God will be hearing from my lawyers for starting this whole mess.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
I wonder whats going to happen when Hillary Rosen and her pal good ol' Jack discovers IRC.
" . . . and thats why sharks don't get cancer. In totaly unrelated news, the RIAA has sent threatening letters to several operators of IRC, a totaly new way of trading pirated MP3 files over then Internet. The RIAA has posted losses of $300 bazillion due to this new service."
**Insert sounds of geeks laughing so hard at the reporter's technical illiteracy here**
------
Not a typewriter
No, really. Think about it.
If MP3Board LOSES this case... then there's a legal precedent set about what's allowed and not allowed as far as the liability of the writer of a piece of software. And it's got a very large company involved in it, which means the company has an interest in making sure other jurisdictions know about it. While it's not a binding precedent nationwide, it WILL become a referenceable case for other suits about the responsibility of a software author for the software they right and how it gets used.
And that... that's where it goes. In New York District Court. Where the DeCSS trial was held. We could see this suit turn around the other one's presumptions. It could lay down completely opposite precedents in the same court district.
IANAL, but I think that's the sort of thing that makes Appellate courts go crazy. It may very well be the thing that makes them toss the DeCSS verdict out.
Unfortunately, if this backfires, it's going to be very, very ugly...
----
Brazil has decided you're cute.
... is the mythical snake that bites its own tail...
The RIAA is suing mp3board, who is suing AOL as a responsible third-party, who owns Time-Warner, who is a member of the RIAA...
(desired) Net Result: The RIAA sues itself out of existance, taking the AOL-Time-Warner monster out with it...
METALLICA SUES DESCENDANTS OF ALAN TURING
.. uh .. tolerated. Piracy is not to be tolerated. Britney Spears is not to be .. well, her music is not to be tolerated. And above all, we want to make the relatives of the inventor of all of these fucking devil-boxes pay their dues."
".. And Justice For All," Vows Furious Drummer
LOS ANGELES, CA (AP) - In a legal move that is likely to set a precedent for many portions of the entertainment industry, the rock group Metallica today brought suit against the living descendents of Alan Turing, who is widely regarded as the father of modern computing. Claiming that Turing's work spawned the creation of "unabashed piracy machines," Metallica is seeking unspecified millions in damages.
Though Turing had no children of his own, he is survived by a large number of great-nephews and nieces. Spike Turing, the owner of a Starbucks' franchise in El Paso, Texas, told the Associated Press that he recieved a letter from Metallica's legal firm, Dewey, Cheat & Howe. "The letter claims that great Uncle Al is responsible for the destruction of the economies of the Western world," explained Turing. "They're taking us to trial."
"This is bullshit," stated a confused 84-year old Bertha Turing, who is a retired seamstress living in a cozy London suburb. "These Metallica fellers sent letters like this to all of us."
Lars Ulrich, who is Metallica's drummer, has taken the lead in fighting against what he claims is "a coordinated band of pirates hell-bent on obliterating creativity and musical freedom." Ulrich expressed hope that the Turing lawsuit would send a message to the rest of the community. "Um, we want people to understand that file sharing is not to be tolerated," explained Ulrich. "Open source is not to be
Dr. Dre contributed to this story.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground