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Helix Code Profiled in Boston Globe
bluebomber writes "The Boston Globe profiled Helix Code this morning on the front page of the business section. Here's the online version." Interesting tidbits: 250,000 copies of helix gnome downloaded so far. Also talks about how Helix hopes to make money.
Not only "works like Windows" but also "has personal information manager that looks like Outlook" -- and the whole *cough*FREE*cough* thing adds to the attractiveness of it all.
Can mass corporate acceptance be far behind?
This is supposed to be great art. So why does it look like a bunch of decapitated naked people? -- Calvin
Helix is doing two great things from what I can tell here. The first, and one that most people will see, is that they are producing a product (or at least helping produce a product) that is doing good for the whole community, or for any computer user actually -- assuming they will eventually use the product, or indirectly through competition. Even though Gnome isn't completely their baby, they are doing alot work for it.
The second thing that I see them doing, which is perhaps more important, is offering another example of the open source buisiness model. They are producing something open source and giving it away for free, yet they have a model for making money, which attracts investors. If they succeed this does nothing but give credibility to open source as a viable option for buisinesses and start ups. If they fail, this could have some repercusions, but then again, its not going to hurt open sources look to the buisiness world.
I had honestly never heard of them until the blurb a few weeks ago on here about their admin tools they were working on.
I headed over, saw one screen shot, and thought it was the coolest looking thing I had seen. So I grabbed it. Then I grabbed it for my other boxen.
The thing is slick. It correctly shuts down the LCD on my laptop when the screen saver kicks in - unlike KDE which just turns the screen black but does not turn off the backlight. It has not crashed once on me. It comes with gnapster, which totally rocks. And it has the coolest install/updating method in existance.
I love it.
Now how long has X been around? How long have window managers been there? How long have window managers had icons? Anyone remember fvwm95?
Friedman says "There's nothing new about any of this technology," - and he's right.
wish
Vote for freedom!
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I think these guys are wildly optomistic if they think that they can get 30 mil a quarter by 2002. I went and looked at redhat and they only did 16 mil their last quarter. I think redhat will be doing good to reach the 30 mil target by 2002.
I certainly hope they succeed though. HelixCode Gnome sure has impressed me. Maybe with any luck these big guys will license Helix Gnome for thier boxs. (maybe that's how they might reach 30 mil)
My Weblog
masks the drab, complex text interface of Linux with rich and colorful images [...]
Pssh. Obviously they've never heard of bashprompt.
(Actually, also an example of why complex is good too.)
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Mmmmmm. Here are some screenshots Screenshots. Looks like the phoneline is going to be busy tonight.
You are a unique individual...just like everyone else.
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Sig it.
I'm always glad to see mainstream press pick up a positive story - other Linux companies should learn from them. Not necessarily how to make something, but how to talk to press people and get a positive impression on the FRONT page :)
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They were showing Evolution and the new "red carpet" installer at LinuxWorld. They both look GREAT. They mentioned that native Exchange server support would be in the second release of Evolution and the first release would use IMAP.
:)
The new installer is very nice. True point and click app install. While not to everyone's liking, I'm sure it will help a lot of new users. They also gave out cool shirts and some stuffed Helix monkeys.
It's a valid concern. After all, they're giving away all their products free, gratis and for nothing. You have to, really. Unless you've got a kick-ass game, it's tough to sell Linux software.
It sounds like they want to be a combination of portal and information pusher (remember Pointcast?). I think if they can get almost all free information, plus some exclusive information, assembled in one point they can succeed. If I want to know when Courtney Love is coming to town (per the article) I can check hole.com. However, if they want to tell me that Courtney Love is coming to town on the 17th, I have no plans that evening (according to Evolution), I have enough in my bank account (according to Gnucash) to buy a ticket from TicketMaster, and it was all done on my box so their server didn't have to know any of that stuff, that might be useful.
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E_NOSIG
"how they hope to make money". 250k downloads and making money is still a question? ha ha ha ha Maybe RMS's communist government will take over in November and support GNOME developers on a collective farm.
...E? Did it just fall off the face of the earth? Last I heard whatshisname left RedHat in a huff and moved to California. Does GNOME still use E? Does anyone?
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
IMHO, the publicity of GNOME and Helix could lead to a maintaining (or even an increase) in the rate of growth of Linux, currently standing at about 100% per year.
This still hasn't varied significantly, for many years now, which prompts me to repeat my prediction that Linux will overtake all versions of Windows combined as the most popular platform within 4-5 years.
In the end, it's the growth in Linux that'll make or break GNOME, Helix, KDE or any other Linux project. People burn out, die, develop new interests, etc. New blood fuels Open Source. Without that, the Open Source movement will die, in time.
By boosting interest, publicity and quality, GNOME may get that new blood in. And, with the hostility between KDE and GNOME fading (finally! - did Tux knock sense into them?), we might see code borrowing and idea exchange - the very essence of the Bazaar model.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Yay!
We are just like windows now!
I stopped reading the article right there.
BTE: I think HELIX is great, and it will shake up the other linux desktop solutions
--- I hate my sig
Actually, due to all the differences between KDE and GNOME, they can easily be considered two different OSs. In corner you've got KDE/Linux, and in the other, GNOME/Linux. Let the fights begin!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
gnome is a desktop, with underlying infrastructure of libraries and gui tool kit, plus some applications based on said libraries and tool kit (gnucash, gnumeric, gedit etc. etc.), it has been around a while now (refer www.gnome.org)
helixcode, which hasn't been around so long, is a distribution of gnome (much like redhat is a distro of gnu/linux) so it bundles up the desktop, libraries, tool kit, apps etc. etc. checks for dependencies and then offers you a nice gui based update mechanism to make your life *so* much easier... (refer www.helixcode.com)
tell me, when was the last time you checked what updates were available for your distro / desktop ??
HTH
marty
"I can't buy want I want because it's free. Can't be what they want because I'm me." -Corduroy, Pearl Jam
Friedman says. ''We hope to make no money off the software.''
It's a great statement. It runs so counter to the current software industry that I couldn't resist quoting it. But it is a sign of the changing world model for IT business. Even here at IBM, that amount of money made from software and hardware is starting to be dwarfed by the income generated by the Services sector, and that seems to be where Helix Gnome is heading.
I used to have the impression that there would be some sort of subscription service to use Helix Gnomes update features or some integrated help-desk type solution. Reading this article seems to suggest a different path - it looks like the revenue stream that Helixcode is aiming for (they are a company after all) is based around providing a convenient integration layer between the user and whatever business out there exists trying to sell the user something, be it technical support, event tickets, book sellers or whatever. Handled right, this could be a fairly amazing utility - imagine planning a holiday trip by selecting the dates in your calendar and then calling up a travel planner which integrates buying plane tickets for the right days, booking hotels in the destination cities using advance search tools and having all that information written back into your electronic diary, along with maybe even collating responding emails from booked events as links. Then click the "Print Itinery" and get the complete information at the touch of a button (working printer not withstanding :-) ).
Why is this important? This is the sort of integration that MS's .NET project dreams about - complete integration of the available technology to make handling information more integrated and easier to access. Having an alternative to this underway NOW strikes me as of critical importance as Linux works its way onto more and more people's computers in order to prevent the .NET integration turning the commercial internet into a closed-off MS-only zone. We already see the spread of IE-only sites - I don't want a balkanized internet.
And if you don't want all those services, Helix Codes' extremely well organised and structured Gnome distribution will still be for free, complete with source code. So we can have the best of both worlds.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Helix Gnome is a Gnome distribution. It's analogous to the concept of Linux distributions, where vendors customize the kernel, integrate everything, do bug fixes, decide what packages they wish to include, and make it easy to install and use. That's what Helix Code is doing for Gnome. They've written utilities like the installer and updater to facilitate the installation/upgrading process. They've decided which packages they wish to include in their distribution of the Gnome Environment. And they're doing application development. They have some of the best Gnome hackers around working for them, writing Evolution (the Fifth Preview Release is out now, btw!), the Helix Setup Tools, and improving the desktop and development environment in general.
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Celebrate the finer things in life
Will a GNOME application run on KDE? (Without compatibility libraries.) Can you write an entire GNOME application without making a single POSIX call? Does GNOME include a VFS layer? I rest my case.
PS> If you include compatibility layers, then you can consider Linux and FreeBSD the same OS because FreeBSD can run Linux apps using a compatibility library.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Something that's designed completely different from the ground up, something that incorporates real cutting-edge concepts that have incredible usability and makes everything I do as a programmer/sysadmin/enduser efficient and powerful. Is it possible to have a user interface that's both powerful like bash yet still slick looking and built on modern computer concepts like OO? I have been thinking about this issue for quite a long time now yet it is really hard to think outside of the box that is the GUI we have today.
One thing I have been pondering about is windows. Really, why do we need windows on a GUI? I can understand if it was a CAD program for example because you need to look at different views at once or something like that; but for day to day tasks I have always thought that the concept of "virtual consoles"(Ctrl+F1-6) is far more powerful and intuitive. Personally 99% of the time when I have multiple programs running at the same time, I never look outside the focused window I am using anyways, and when I want to switch between them I almost never use the mouse to select them. Instead I use the hotkey combo I have set up, which now I think of is really just a emulation of virtual consoles!!
That bring me to another thing about modern GUI: the mouse. I really really hate that thing. Like hate it with a passion. It is just not a very good designed piece of hardware in my opinion. And I don't think it's because I am a fast typer; I have seen my mom(who has no computer experience whatsoever) struggle with the mouse, and my conclusion is people who are afraid of the keyboard are even more afraid of the little rolly thing that controls that tiny cursor which always seem to move either too fast or too slow. And there seems to be a trend toward abandoning the keyboard even in the Open Source world recently. I don't understand it. Why can't there be a GUI that will still be 100% functional even when you unplug that damn rodent from your desktop without turning into Emac?
Anyways previewing this post I realize it has gone way off topic, but just something to think about. Maybe I should just stop complaining and start coding ;)....
sure I'll have a sig.
No, you've got Gnome confused with Emacs again. Gnome is a very large program with pretentions to be Windows 98.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Their graphical update and secondary xml files which track installed updates makes automated systems management of Helix-gnome systems a complete nightmare. I need scriptable tools. The Helix web page makes no attempt to provide easy access to the .rpm files. They use a secondary database, other than rpm, to track which packages are installed with the helix-updater. They don't document how this all works in plain english. And finally, they plan to use this system to force ads down my throat.
I'm planning a large rollout of Helix at a University, and frankly, I'm not impressed. Where do I find a complete list of updates? Where might I find those rpm files? Where is the helix-updater database located? Why is it separate from rpm? Why do I need yet another package manager???
I want scriptable tools so that I can maintain consistency across a large number of workstations. I don't need a cute GUI updater, and I DON'T want to force my userbase to manage this stuff by hand.
I ordered Helix Code's Gnome on CD, and I was impressed with the broad support of many Linux distributions. (As an aside it's gotten to the point where I order rather than download, primarily because it makes for a high-quality convenient storage medium. Too many large downloads result in some minor corruption somewhere, causing installation problems later.) I was very impressed with 1.2 over 1.1 and earlier, specifically with its installation, usablity, and overall stability. This release makes up for the first Gnome release. I was not at all happy with that release, believing it had been pushed out the door far too soon.
In comparison to KDE 1.x and the soon-to-be released KDE 2, I believe Gnome has a much better look-and-feel. The look, in particular, is very professionally done, reminding me of Irix and the MacOS. However, I find that programatically I prefer the KDE APIs over the Gnome APIs. There is nothing wrong with QT, C++, or OO design and programming in general.
It is interesting to me that Motif/X/CDE gave us a butt-ugly UI and API. Now Gnome and KDE have split that 'paradigm', with Gnome giving us a very good UI and a merely ugly API, while KDE gives us a merely ugly UI and a very good API.
And finally, on the support of various Unixes, it would be nice if a Gnome package for OpenBSD were there along with the others. If Helix Code can support Solaris, then perhaps they could support OpenBSD and ship that as well.
Helix might just be one if the coolest Linux things around. Maybe it will be one of the key players in making Linux a universally acceptable desktop OS.
Until that happens, though, Helix code isn't going to make much money. I know plenty of free software users who rejoice in the freedom from market-spin and consumerism that seems so abundant in the popular desktop OS of today.
Using technology used to be so simple. Now when we install a program or use a browser we have to deal with sales pitch, banner adds, gimmicks and tickers. We are presented with every possible opportunity to buy, buy, buy. Some of us just want to use our PC.
I find this akin to the various free Internet providers out there. They provide the access in hopes that the end user will eventually be interested by some of the constant ads.
Not that I think this is wrong, I just don't see the current Linux community buying it. Helix needs a new sort of Linux user before they get their millions. They need people who are more interested in using their PC as a consumer's tool rather than as an intellectual tool.
folks,
am i the only person who noticed that the helix gnome office does not include abi word anymore? see helix's webpage if you dont believe me. they even say that their next project will be a word processor for gnome (!!!!).
i am all up for this foundation thing but what will happen if someone decides to do a nifty spreadsheet or mailer? will they still get included in gnome even though there is a *default* one?? the foundation will watch over us but who will watch them, an unspecified number of "gnome hackers"?
i know gnome will kick (even more) arse and i think the gpl will protects us from almost all evil - but lets get this small issues clear before taking the jump, heh? better to be safe...
soup
soup, the dragon.
dna.h:include "std_disclaimer.h"
Dude, Evolution doesn't just look like outlook, its as if they have taken screenshots of outlook, and then made them work.
This is a Good Thing(tm), I use outlook everyday at work, and it is actually pretty good. But Evolution will be better because it will be easier to script with, plug things into etc etc.
I seem to recall that the people who coded Gnumeric open admitted that they copied the interface directly from Excel.
Because lets face it, some MS apps are actually pretty good, untill they fail, and then they suck. But in terms of UI, they mostly have it right, so why re-invent the wheel?
--- I hate my sig
It isn't that hard to work with slackware. Honestly, all the installer needs to do is suck down tarballs (or even RPMs, since that comes with slackware, too), and untar them! It's easy! Viva la Slackware!
The way I do it is to run rsync every night to pick up any new packages. That way, I see in my email each morning whether new packages are available, and I then have the actual RPMs that anyone else in the office can use if they want.
d Hat-6
It wouldn't be hard to write a script that then noticed the new packages and installed them on all your machines.
The rsync URL I use is :
rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/Re
Since Apple has trademarked the look of the Imac, has Microsoft trademarked the look of Windows programs?
If Gnumeric looks just like Excel, and Evolution like Outlook, can a lawsuit be far behind?
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
No, you really can't write any sizeable app without using a POSIX call. And many of GTK+/Gnome's wrapper calls just aren't always flexible enough to use. And you confuse VFS layers. The Gnome's layer is completely different from an OS. Their layer is to give you the same filesystem on different protocols ... i.e. ftp and http. They still need the OS to actually access a disk.
And the whole compatibility layer comment is bullshit. Show me how to run mysql without a threads library. Show me how to run any X app without the X libraries. Does that mean they are compatility libraries? No, certain apps rely on certain libraries to run. To run a Gnome app you need the Gnome libraries, to run a KDE app you need the KDE libraries (or statically link either and that goes away). Either way, you can run Gnome apps under KDE and KDE apps under Gnome without any problems, assuming you have the libraries that they require installed.
Your FreeBSD comment falls apart under the same logic. FreeBSD has a linux loader/executor. But, linux apps need glibc and company to run. They aren't compatibility libaries, they are just the standard libraries an app needs to run cause that's how their author ran them.
If you really want to give a good example, Wine is a compatibility library. Now, do you want to say that Windows and Linux are the same OS with linux running Wine?
I think it's fallout from the GNOME Foundation announcement of a week or so ago. The backing of big names like Sun means that GNOME is suddenly an editorial hot topic.
This is raising the hackles of some in the Qt/KDE camp. Most notably TrollTech, with their infantile comments on the Qt Developer page, and Matthias Ettrich, with his off the mark comments in a recent interview. This is a shame, because both projects should benefit from each others publicity. As long as both projects are producing great things, then people will want to use them both, if only to be different. Perhaps this is the only benefit of the `tribalism' that often surrounds software. The BSD's benefit because they're seen as a different `tribe' to Linux, and the same happens with KDE and GNOME. In the long run, they each feed of off the popularity of the other.
Chris
I worries me that Helix-Code want's to make money of placing advertisements and other stuff right into my personal calendar. This article raises some doubt about the intention of this company.
So don't use their software. KDE isn't going away anytime soon, and, there will still likely still be a "pure" GNOME distribution out there, maybe something controlled or sponsored by the GNOME Consortium.
Or, better yet, since it's all GPLed, pull out the offending modules and make a "Helix-free" GNOME distribution. In the article Nat Friedman says that the software itself is a commodity and unimportant to their business model.
Jay (=
Actually, Gnumeric doesn't look just like Excel. And Evolution doesn't look just like Outlook.
They're close, yes, but not that close.
IMHO, this is pretty iffy. Sounds a lot like web banners if you ask me. (Yeah, I know, you didn't ask me.) Also, it depends on people needing to spend a lot of time on system maintenance downloading and installing updates, like Windows. The problem with that is that Open Source software tends to eventually get pretty well debugged. What are the Helix guys going to do when their code finally works? Why will people keep coming back for more ads?
I'm pretty sceptical that Helix's investors are going to get their money back. I hope they have some other tricks up their sleeves as part of their "open source business model", because the revenue sources that were mentioned in the article, aren't going to work. Good luck, Miguel, you're going to need it.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
They use a secondary database, other than rpm, to track which packages are installed with the helix-updater.
/var/lib/dpkg/status file, depending on what type of system you are on.
I'm afraid this just isn't true. The current updater uses the rpm database alone, and the next generation updater we demoed at LWE uses either your rpm database or the
If you need technical assistance, please send mail to spidermonkey@helixcode.com.
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Ian Peters
itp: Thank you for your quick response to my post. If there is no secondary database for helix-update, then I ask: how is it that helix-update tool doesn't know if one manually installs a helix update via rpm? I've tried this and then run helix-update to find that the updater doesn't recognize that my previous install with rpm just occurred, and then blindly presents the update as one among the list of available packages. If selected, the updater will then download the package and attempt to install it again. This suggests to me that helix-update is keeping track of what packages it downloads in a separate database from rpm (even though it downloads rpm files and installs them through the rpm tool). I recognize that I may be factually incorrect about this assumption, so please inform me and everyone else how the updater works with written documentation published on your web site.
Second: Where do I download current updates? I notice that not all the mirror sites are in sync with Helix's Akamai site. I'd like to know a URL for exactly where to download current rpm files for helix packages.
I don't expect Helix to write my tool, if that's not in your business model. I DO expect Helix to provide adequate documentation so that I can easily write this tool.
For offical stable releases, KDE almost always has KDE PowerPC RedHat packages at the time of the offical release. Debian, on the other hand -- well the packages alienate fairly well :)
Many PowerPC users use KDE, if you don't believe me, stop into irc.kde.org's KDE development channel - #kde, you will see several PowerPC Linux users.
Nobody is currently making up cvs-snapshots of KDE 2.0 right now, mainly because it takes alot of time and effort to do so, and nobody exactly wants to bother.
Don't worry, I can almost assure you that there will be PowerPC binaries on the offical day of the KDE 2.0 release.
Ian Gerser had made up ppc.rpm for 1.91 soon after the release, he never did get 1.92 up, but he may do 1.93 packages (I don't know).
At any rate, KDE 2.0 is near, doing beta snapshots all of the time is almost a waste of effort.
actually, my wifes computer crashed, and mine was in dire need of some new parts, so i had to comprimise with her... ....damnable windows box... since she can't play her games under linux.....soon though...oh yes...very soon i will have my linux box back....
erm...sorry bout that. Little bit of frustration surfacing.
I Will definatly be checking out Helix then very soon as well...but first I have to get a linux box up again.
You've stumbled across one of the limitations of the current updater system. The current "updates" we ship are represented as a group of packages inside of an xml file. Unfortunately, this means the updater may continue to represent some updates as still being available for your system when you've already installed everything you're interested in from that update.
The new updater we're currently finishing up, Red Carpet, takes care of this calculating full tree dependencies for packages, making it a full package management tool. In addition, we plan to add features to support your type of situation, namely, a single person managing a large number of machines which should be kept in sync.
If you're looking for our files, check out our ftp site (ftp.helixcode.com), which contains packages for all the distributions we support (this is where akamai comes to get them), along with the xml metafiles we use to describe them. If you're not already, subscribe to the updates@helixcode.com mailing list, which is where we post a message any time we push new updates.
I'd also like to ask you to subscribe and contribute to the spidermonkey@helixcode.com list. Getting GNOME onto as many systems as possible is the core of our business model, and we'd always like to hear feedback from our users about how we can make that process easier.
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Ian Peters
cd ~/helixa t-6 .
rsync -vau --exclude="*.src.rpm" rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/RedH
rpm -Fvh *.rpm
Seems to work well for me...
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Celebrate the finer things in life
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Celebrate the finer things in life
- Linux is not pretty - at least not in its natural state.
I may be an idiot but I always thought KDE looked just as good as Windows.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
A linux glibc is a compatibility library when uses on a FreeBSD system. A compatibility library is anything that allows an application meant for one system to be run on another. My FreeBSD comment is SUPPOSED to fall apart. I was using it to show that Linux/KDE and Linux/GNOME are two different OSs. Instead of thinking about it from a technical standpoint, think about it from a user's standpoint. You cannot run a GNOME application on KDE without using the GNOME libraries. Since the GNOME libraries form such an abstraction layer around the application, it can be said that running a GNOME app on KDE/Linux using the GNOME compatibility libraries is similar to running a Linux app on FreeBSD using the Linux compatibility libraries. As for the WINE example, you prove my point. If you say that a GNOME application running with compatibility libraries under KDE still constitutes the same OS (from a functional, not technical standpoint) then you have to say that Linux running a Windows app using Windows compatibility libraries also constitutes the two being the same OS. Obviously that's not true.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
There is also a nice bit of flame war starting journalism about the whole thing available here. Interesting reading...
The only Good System is a Sound System
My comment is aimed at the more general problem that GNOME and KDE apps are not compatible. They are not just seperate tool kits, but entirely seperate operating environemnts. Compare this to Windows's MFC which is just a wrapper over Win32. A Win32 app and an MFC app are fully compatible. They interchange data using the same formats, they share a common clipboard, they share the same object model, they use the same underlying OS services, etc. You can say that GNOME is just a GUI, but then you have to explain how a GUI can take up 20MB+ of harddrive space. WindowMaker is just a GUI. FVWM is just a GUI. BlackBox is just a GUI. An application written for BlackBox is totally compatible with windowmaker without any extra libraries. GNOME (and KDE) is not just a GUI. To the user, it's a desktop environment. To the application, it provieds nost only an entirely new API, but totally new services that are only acessible to apps written for GNOME. I say, at that point, an application goes from being a GUI, to becoming a "mini operating system." These projects, like enlightenment and EMacs have caught the "I am an OS" syndrome, and it does not really make sense to consider them "just GUIs" anymore. Certainly, they split the market. A GNOME app is no longer a Linux app, it's a GNOME app. Sure you can run it on KDE/Linux using extra libraries, but then again, you can run Linux apps on FreeBSD using extra libraries. Programmers now have to choose one or the other. Users have to choose one or the other. (Users can do both, but it is a less than ideal solution because of extra libraries, and the lack of interoperability between applications for the two DEs.) None of this was every a problem with the prolifiration window managers. In fact, I dare say that "freedom of choice" has actually DECREASED with the coming of KDE and GNOME. Wheras you could choose any window manager and still be able to run any app, now you have to run either GNOME or KDE (or both.) You don't do the choosing, the application developers do.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I know the reason *I* became a Linux convert was because I was tired of having commerical entities dictate how *I* should use *my* computer. I don't believe the companies you mentioned (btw, Linux is no company) can or will force any software on anyone. And if it did, I for one would start looking for other OS alternatives...
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"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Can you embed KDE apps into GNOME apps?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
- It remembers to mention that other projects are doing the same thing (kde)
- It mentions that Qt was semi-closed when GNOME started, but has since gone open source
- It even credits GNU as the beginning of the free software movement, not Linux
Details like these are often missed by mainstream media.--
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Either the little guy offers services like Helix and MS, or he doesn't, which means he's not offering the best value. This is going to happen with or without Helix. Either MS gets the whole market, or it gets split between MS, Helix, and whoever else manages to come up with something good. With Gnome and KDE being open source, Helix and MS could very well get a another competitor or three. If there's money in it, they probably will.
Additionally, the software isn't being given away free in the sense that IE5 is given away free. The source is available free as well. It's the services that will make the money. Whoever can provide the best services for the lowest cost will get the customers. This could very well lead to some serious fragmentation as each service provider tinkers with the software and offers their own updates. Unless the software is made to be completely independent of the service providers, we're likely heading down a bumpy road.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Actually, the Debian package doesn't use that silly Helix updater thing. Since Debian's packaging system already provides all the functionality they need, they don't need to install another app to provide functionality missing from RPMs (ignore the trolling ;) ), so there's simply a standard Debian archive we can use.
Put it in your apt sources.list, and apt-get update/upgrade as usual, using all of Debian's tools.
Problem solved. *grin*
Bill - aka taniwha
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Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
No, but you can embed GTK apps into KDE apps. : )
Just email Simon and ask him for that tarball.
Even here at IBM, that amount of money made from software and hardware is starting to be dwarfed by the income generated by the Services sector, and that seems to be where Helix Gnome is heading.
.NET project dreams about - [...] Having an alternative to this underway NOW strikes me as of critical importance as Linux works its way onto more and more people's computers in order to prevent the .NET integration turning the commercial internet into a closed-off MS-only zone.
This is great for free software, but it's absolutely horrible for anybody interested in making Linux consumer-friendly. I don't think you can't have really happy users/customers and really successful support-revenue-based businesses. The two don't mix. There's clearly a conflict of interest (whether conscious or not) between making software really easy to use and expecting to make money from support. Personally, I would much rather pay for the software and have it work the first time, than have something break and have to invest the time/money looking at manuals, man pages, web sites or calling someone for help. Other than hard-core hackers, nobody really wants to have to read a manual. I know this concern isn't exactly new, but I don't think it's being taken seriously enough.
Why is this important? This is the sort of integration that MS's
But as has been prove time and time again, technology alone will not win the battle. The truth is Microsoft has essentially inifinite resources. It can use these resources to market to end users, setup exclusive partnerships, and essential buy its way into acceptance. This is how Microsoft works.
All these great ideas and technology, including those from Helix Code, will mean nothing if they can't get the message out to the appropriate people.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
That's kind of like saying, "Why would I want a Linux distribution?" Now granted, it's a bit different. A Linux distribution does a lot for you that would be *very* difficult to do on your own if you were not experienced, such as installation, setting up the file system, etc. But the analogy is still a good one. A distribution bundles everything together nicely. You don't just get the applications in their default state as written by each individual developer. You get an integrated set of applications that work well together because they were customized and designed in that way. You also get a desktop environment that is well-tested. If you just upgrade individual packages, that's great, but they won't necessarily work well together. Helix Code does for Gnome, what Red Hat, Mandrake, Debian, et. al. do for the GNU/Linux operating system. Installation and upgrading is easy. You have a set of applications that have been tested to work well together and have been packaged accordingly, placed in one central location and "stamped," if you will, with company's seal of approval. Now, if that means nothing to you, then don't use it. But for a lot of users, this is a dream come true. All they have to do is run the simple installer and they have a complete desktop, development environment at their fingertips. When there are updates and bug fixes all they have to do is run the upgrade utility. All the applications are tested and set up so they are easy to find and launch. Bug Buddy is a click away to report problems they find with the system. As new appications become available, they don't have to go out searching high and low for them. Helix Code adds applications to their distribution regularly, improving the user experience.
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Celebrate the finer things in life
It is a suprising fact that you possess the mental facilities to type yet don't possess the ability to think clearly. A good deal of the most sucessful and valuated companies in the world are service companies. You better hurry up and tell MediaOne and AOL that people aren't REALLY going to pay for service and they will be out of business when VC money runs out. Of course the Linux start-ups that do the same thing as everyone else with merely a different logo and shell command for printing will die quickly and painlessly. There are companies however that have been around or just starting that will make alot of money because they're going something different. Helix is one of those companies. Helix is just the front end for the services they plan to offer on a subscription basis as the article (if you read it, remember top to bottom and left to right). The biggest arena for Helix is in the Application Service business which is just now starting to pop up and turn into a viable industry. While HTML frontends work decently for ASPs for now, they will really become popular if they are transparent to the user.
One posibility is a photo editing ASP, you have your collection of pictures which you highlight and click the button to send them to an ASP that will perform certain filters and such on and then store them online so your grandparents can type in the URL and see Junior's first birthday party. Using a web based front end would work but if you could click a button on your desktop and have everything taken care of you'd be much more apt to use it. GNOME's design allows for this sort of networked object handling and can do a pretty good job of it. A small monthly service fee for a variety of performed services is a very successful business model, it has worked for AOL for years now making them billions of dollars.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.