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Socket A Coolers - That Don't Kill
Mr-Tweak writes: "TweakTown
have just put up their Socket A Cooler guide entitled "Socket
A Coolers - That Don't Kill". In the guide they review and test
out the Global Win FNP50, Global Win FOP32-7K, ATTech CM25 and the
ThermalTake Chrome Orb."
I wish this article came out a long time ago. I've since given up and actually have a table fan blowing across an open case with 8 drives hanging out like so much spilled guts. Anything you touch in that case is now positively cool.
It is interesting that the way the kickest-ass place sells stuff that manafacturers don't make. What am I talking about? They sell "Duron 750's". Impossible. /off-subject
"When Socket A Coolers Attack!"
I would have to say that overclockers have way too much time on their hands if they go to the distance of wetsanding the bottom of a heatsink. Heck, if they spend too much time at it they might even make the situation worse!
Not just the heat sink but the *slug* of the cpu (top). On a old celereon 533 and lower (not 533a, 566 up) you could sand down the metal slug. When you got to the copper you knew you shouldn't go much further. Wetsand the slug and the heatsink, add a little thermal paste, and tada... the entre is served.
A few weeks ago TT reported that the Thermaltake Golden Orb cooler destroyed CPU's because it was grinding against them. That may be true for the coolers they received, but mine has been working fine, and the place I ordered it from (which is by the way the kickest-ass place to get custom systems from) never experienced it either. So be careful about what you read.
envision computer systems
If you're gonna order a system, consider them. I only recommend them because they are truly exceptional.
Why not go to the hardware store and buy an extra fan like that?
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I think this article brings up a good point that all Thunderbird users need to be aware of... it sure made me take down my computer for a while. If you put a golden orb on your processor like I did, you remember how hard it was... well it can actually crush the die and render the processor as a $300 piece of trash. I still think it's a cool looking heatsink so I already put up another $20 for Thermaltake's fix for the golden one.
There's a simple reason you don't often see copper heatsinks - copper is a heck of a lot more expensive than aluminum.
Thus, a company that wants to price competitively will design a casing that will allow the larger aluminum heatsink to save a few bucks over using copper.
I imagine that copper or more exotic materials are used pretty often in tight spaces like notebooks tho.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If you're worried about a leak damaging your computer, you could always use vegetable oil as your coolant. Heat capacity isn't as good, and you'll have to take off the heat sink assembly and flush it with soapy water every few months, but it's better than air and won't damage electronics if there is a leak.
Many other possible coolants exist; just bear in mind that you don't want your coolant to be very flammable (so something like kerosene is not an option, despite lower viscosity).
True, but I'm looking for specifics. What is the quietest pump with the best throughput, what heatsink lends it self to welding/soldering the easiest, etc..
Geoff
Well, since the subject was posted to slashdot I figured this would be the best time to ask:
I'm interested in doing a few water-cooling projects, mostly for the fun of it. I've seen webpages of people that have used copper sheet and welding to using the end of a PVC pipe. Is there a company out there that is making a commercial-quality water cooled heatsink?
A few points that I believe are important in water-cooling:
* Safety: I don't want my heatsink to spring a leak and fry my system.
* Noise: I want a quiet water pump that isnt much louder than my case fan.
* Size: I don't want to have to invest in a huge pump and radiator that sits outside my case.
* Price: I don't want to have to pay over $150 for the unit..
I am willing to make my own. I'm handy with tools and can usually hack something together correctly given the time.
Any links/ideas/discussion?
Actually it only has a little to do with copper being more difficult to work with. The bottom line is that copper costs ALOT more than aluminum for the raw materials and weighs ALOT more given the same volume of it. It would get cheaper when buying copper in quantity, but if your buying small amounts the price is actually really steep. MetalMart.com has 1"x2" copper bar selling for about $7.50 and inch. A 1"x2" aluminum bar is about $2.60 per inch. (That can vary depending on the alloy you want etc.) It'd get ALOT cheaper for both when you are talking about buying in quantity, but you get the idea. (Metalmart is a place that will sell to anyone in small quantites, so you don't have to buy tons...you pay a hefty premium for it that way though.)
Price has ALOT to do with it.
Actually one last thing...I just looked at another alloy of aluminum at metalmart that was only $1.27 per inch. Compared to the $7.50 copper....you get the idea.
cool. now all that has to be estimated is the net roughness of both surfaces to obtain the average thickness of the thermal paste.
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File?
Get out the grinder! waste that metal in 5 seconds or less. better yet, use a grinding wheel for better control (holding the heat sink in your hands). Best thing ever to do with an old washing machine motor - turn it into a grinder.
How else do you keep your knives sharp? 8P
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I had included an ASCII diagram, but it was rejected as a junk post.
thermal conductivity coefficients:
k [=] W/m deg C
assume 30 deg C
copper (pure) 383
aluminum (pure) 201
so Copper has a value (383 - 201)/383 = 47.5 % higher
>
So there are multiple resistances involved in heat transer:
1. CPU internals to CPU exterior surface (internal) (user cannot influence this)
2. CPU to Thermal Paste (interface)
3. Thermal Paste to Heat sink surface (interface)
4. heat transfer within heat sink metal (internal)
5. heat sink to air (interface)
Assumes:
- the use of thermal paste applied as a uniform thin film.
- constant heat duty - chip has been running long enough to be at steady-state temperature.
The heat transfer at (5) is maximized by having a large relative surface area of metal to air transfer area compared with the area of the heat sink in contact with the heat source. By using forced convection (fan) the heat transfer coefficient is increased.
The main improvement by using copper is that the temprature profile along the length of the fin is more uniform, meaning that the same driving force for heat trasfer is maintained, provided a constant heat duty. This produces a smaller temperature at the CPU-Heat Sink interface.
But the interface resistances are most likely a greater factor in the overall heat trasfer - hence the reason why overclockers wetsand the machined interfaces with 220,400,600 grit paper to minimize surface roughness.
I don't have thermal conductivity values for thermal paste - anyone have a k value?
If you're interested, I can provide an example problem from J.P Holman's Heat Transfer with actual values.
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Normal (ie Radio Shack) stuff is (I think) around .70 W/m K. I've seen some more expensive thermal paste that claims 4-5 W/m K.
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
People don't kill people.
I kill people.
Gwa ha ha ha ha...
--
Laptop006 (RHCE: That means I know what I'm talking about! When talking about linux at least...)
/* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
No problem. The CPU/heatsink gap is Usually 0.002" (50 um) with normal thermal grease (the thin 0.8 W/mK stuff) and smooth but unlapped surfaces. This often goes up to 0.005" (125 um) with thicker hiK thermal grease (2 W/mK) or larger thermal plates.
Wouldn't it help matters then if one instead soldered (or better yet welded) the heatsink on to the top of the CPU? (although it would of course be almost impossible to do without overheating and destroying the CPU).
However it might be possible to do at the manufacturing stage?
thoughts/flames welcome.
Edmund.
Dan's Data, a nice little tech site run by an Aussie with a proper appreciation for IBM keyboards, already had something similar posted back on the 18th. Of course, he also has a page on how to properly destroy your PC.
(If you really want a laugh, read the comics, too.)
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Are there any materials people out there who can enlighten us?
--Mike--
this is a test of the emergency karma system.
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Actually, if you read into the arcticle, it states that there was a Golden Orb before the Chrome orb. The Golden Orb had a nasty habit of chipping off peices of the processor die when it cooler was rotated onto the processor.
I am MuchTall
A friend of mine has a Golden Orb cooler that could have easily damaged his processor. I was glad to see that there are now alternatives.
I am MuchTall
Back in my day, we didn't need any stinkin' processor coolers. Damn kids now think they can just make a hot processor and expect *us* to cool it? Sounds like bad design to me!
they'll be available in quantity this month sometime. by far the highest-quality socket-a heatsink you can get. I use the Slot-A Alpha, and I love it. what other heatsink comes unassembled so you can put it together? hey-you build your computer, you should build your heatsink my athlon 1000MHz is at 39 degrees celsius right now. lovely for a GHz processor... get an Alpha. it's worth the $20 you'll pay extra for the slot, and the $10 you'll pay extra for the socket. trust me. nothing's more fun than bolting a heatsink on a $500 processor :)
Bah.
you dont need any fancy schmancy heatsinks for todays processors.
Esp with Intel's latest offerings, all you need is a nice big frying pan, and toss some eggs and bacon, and not only do you have a smokin' fast machine, u also get some great breakfast to go along with it!
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
Yes, we are now testing out the coolers for that brand-new PentiumIV system you've been drooling about!
In our labs, we have just aquired the new Intel-recomended case for these babies, and we love it!
comes complete with an AC unit to remove the extra heat that the heatsink doesnt take care of.
But for what everyones interested in, the coolers themselves.
First up, we have the Thermaltake GOLD orb, made of solid 24k gold, to improve heat transfer, complete with dual 80mm fans to remove the extra heat caused by this hot chip.
Next up, we have the GlobalWin HoT32, sized at a nice 6"x6"x6" package of pure copper, with dual 120mm fans to keep that nasty heat away.
And Last up, we have the Alpha bRN56+, at a slightly smaller 5x5x5 clock of copper, but with what could very well be the more interesting feature, the Solid gold copper inlays, and the built-in pump connectors, making this an ideal candidate to hooking up into your house's AC system for that extra cooling effect.
And now for what everyones been waiting for, how well do these babies cool?
well, time to go take a looksie
Onwards to Page2--->
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
Free music from Jack Merlot.
Duron 650 - 34 degrees celsius, and the chipset temp is 26 degress (active cooler on the chipset).
if you don't like it. don't read it. geez. how many times do you people have to be told? it's a big internet, go elsewhere if you don't like what is here.
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"don't smoke, don't drink, don't fuck
at least i can fucking think"
Minor Threat
I've got a Coolermaster heatsink+fan combo, one that is approved by AMD, and the board is the Asus A7V. I read in the A7V manual that the thermal probe reports higher temperatures than other systems, but is more accurate -- but I still think that's a creepy temperature.
The motherboard temperature is on average 38-40 celsius, down from 45-46 celsius from before adding a chassis fan (and yes I checked if it blows toward the inside the case)
I sticked the the probe directly on the side of the heatsink. Any feedback would be appreciated.
For anyone with the Abit KT7 and KT7-RAID, the chrome orb will not fit without a little modification. What I did was use a metal file to file away some of the metal on the bottom of one side of the heatsink where it was being blocked. Only the bottom part of the side needs to shaved off. I shaved off less than 1/8 of an inch and you can't notice it unless if you really look hard. Just prepare to be filing that sucker for a good half hour :)
I gotta agree, (apologies to the authors) this article is really quite lame, even though I appreciate what it's intentions were, namely informing computer enthusiasts about the cooling capacity of various fans. However, this subject was covered much more thoroughly in a more well-written and humourous piece on Ars Technica, it's either a full piece comparing fans or just what's in their product reviews section.
I concur with Brento, I really don't think this merited being posted on Slashdot either.
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Slán leat agus go n'eirí an bóthar leat
Why, socket A coolers don't kill people.
People kill people.
I would rather know which Socket A coolers DO kill. That is potentially much more useful information.
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Sniff sniff. Now I miss my ABIT BH6 board again. This whole thing brings back memories... (celery300 up to 550, until a lightning storm..)
WHY DO YOU BASTARDS DO THIS TO ME????
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
I fail to see what the interest is. It's trivial technology. Not cutting edge in the least. For the most part PC cooling solutions are bad science at best, outright scams at worst.
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
I wonder if you could run an AC tent and tubing from the back of a case to that little exaust fan that goes into my bath room.... I'd have to stock up on lysol though.
I think it's symptomatic of our society that we are looking at the prevention rather than the cure. Yes, the coolers KILLED. They may even kill again. Now we have found away to stop the killing before it begins... but ONLY with new coolers. Doesn't this strike anyone as odd? There are still many many coolers out there that have killed, are killing, and will kill again. Do we just forget about them? They are a problem in our society. They can not just be SWEPT under the carpet for god's sake.
I have information, yes.