Posted by
Hemos
on from the wrapping-itself-around-the-world dept.
tonys1110 was one of the first to tell us that Python[?] 1.6 Final has been released unto the world. They've got a bit about the license, and of course, the obligatory "What's New".
This is great news! Python is my favorite programming language to date. It all of my favorite features that are in other languages.
For those of you that don't know much about python, I would encourage you to try it out! Coming from the following languages, here is why I would recommend python:
Java - Python has a class library the size of Java's, its VM starts up faster, and its simpler to write and maintain. Plus, it isn't controlled by Sun!
Perl - Okay, all religious issues aside here. Get real. Perl is a great language, but it has largely been extended beyond its original intent, and is straining to keep up. Python is easier to learn, develop in, and most of all *maintain*. If you have ever looked at another person's Perl code and tried to maintain it, you know what I mean. Perl is cool. Python is cooler. Give it a shot, you can even use Perl style regular expressions!
C++ - Still haven't realized that C++ is a dirty hack eh? No, all kidding aside, C++ is also a great language. Honestly though, I struggle to develop quickly in C++ because I keep running into language barriers. C++ is probably the most widely used OO language next to Java. I for one am sick of managing my own memory. Leave it to the garbage collector thanks =) If you want a really really fast OO application, write it in C++. If you want to develop a OO application really really fast -- choose Python.
C - Ahh, the great C. What a fantastic language. Fast, Fast, Fast! But, not object oriented. Now, I know in the Linux world there are a lot of C lovers, and don't get me wrong, C has many uses. But the world would benefit if people would write their apps in Python. There would be very few memory related bugs! Many times, the development cycle is slowed dramatically by C's tragically painful memory management. Programmers are dumb. We really are. We make silly off by 1 errors, that oftentimes can make a C program leak memory like a swiss cheese bucket. Write in Python. Its *so* much easier, and is perfectly fast for GUIs, and many server applications.
Python, to me, is the language of the future. It is fast, easy to lean, fun to develop in, and is just plain cool.
After reading some of the info regarding the new Python release I see that they've decided to release 1.6 under an open source license that they believe to be compatible with GPL, although it seems RMS disagrees. This is the second item today that I've seen that has potential licensing woes.
Why is it that we need to many different licenses? If the concern is to be GPL compatible then why not release under the GPL?
It seems to be an important task to iron out the major differences between the most popular licenses and get everybody under one legal roof in case problems start to develop. I doubt we have the legal resources to create and defend rigorously 7 types of licenses.
Re:Speed of Languages is Often Discussed
by
kjz
·
· Score: 4
Althought the algorithm used in the above two programs is the same, the specific semantics are different. In the Python program above, you are using global variables. The C implementation of Python is notoriously slow in looking up global variables. In addition, the range() function allocates an array of values, as other posters have pointed out.
I wrote a version of your program which uses xrange() and saw a significant performance increase:
#!/usr/local/bin/python
endp = 10000;
totl = 0
for i in xrange(2,endp):
for j in xrange(2,i):
if i%j == 0:
break
else:
totl = totl + 1
print totl, 'prime numbers between 1 and', endp
Your original script on my machine produced the following (yes, I'm running on W2K; I'm at work. *sigh*):
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_orig.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m10.215s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.040s
The new script above produced:
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_xrange.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m6.980s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.000s
I was further able to shave another 1.4s off that time by moving everything into a function:
#!/usr/local/bin/python
def getprimes(endp):
totl = 0
for i in xrange(2,endp):
for j in xrange(2,i):
if i%j == 0:
break
else:
totl = totl + 1
return totl
max = 10000
print getprimes(max), 'prime numbers between 1 and', max
This resulted in:
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_new.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m5.578s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.000s
I'm sure that the real Python gurus can do a whole lot better. You can always post to comp.lang.python and get some truly outstanding help there. It's one of the few remaining civil newsgroups left on Usenet (in my opinion, of course).
Keep in mind, though, that benchmarks like these don't tell you the whole story. For one thing, consider how much more a developer's time will cost you compared to the extra processing time. A good Python programmer will, in many cases, crank out a program in a fraction of the time that a good C programmer will take. This will vary from programmer to programmer, of course, but I have found that to hold true in my particular case.
In other news, the developers of Python have just received a letter from Digital Convergence demanding that they cease and desist making a "device capable of infringing on our IP." Company CEO J. Jovian Philyaw comments: "We really like the open source community, but if we don't defend our IP, we'll lose it! Because programs can be written in Python which utilize our IP, we must put a stop to the language." Unnamed members of the open source community responded with a quote which is not printable but which involved anatomically improbable actions involving goats.
Note: The above is facetious and non factual. Except maybe the bit about the goats.
--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Python 2.0b1 also due out today
by
Corvus
·
· Score: 5
Slashdot Mirror
This is great news! Python is my favorite programming language to date. It all of my favorite features that are in other languages.
For those of you that don't know much about python, I would encourage you to try it out! Coming from the following languages, here is why I would recommend python:
Java - Python has a class library the size of Java's, its VM starts up faster, and its simpler to write and maintain. Plus, it isn't controlled by Sun!
Perl - Okay, all religious issues aside here. Get real. Perl is a great language, but it has largely been extended beyond its original intent, and is straining to keep up. Python is easier to learn, develop in, and most of all *maintain*. If you have ever looked at another person's Perl code and tried to maintain it, you know what I mean. Perl is cool. Python is cooler. Give it a shot, you can even use Perl style regular expressions!
C++ - Still haven't realized that C++ is a dirty hack eh? No, all kidding aside, C++ is also a great language. Honestly though, I struggle to develop quickly in C++ because I keep running into language barriers. C++ is probably the most widely used OO language next to Java. I for one am sick of managing my own memory. Leave it to the garbage collector thanks =) If you want a really really fast OO application, write it in C++. If you want to develop a OO application really really fast -- choose Python.
C - Ahh, the great C. What a fantastic language. Fast, Fast, Fast! But, not object oriented. Now, I know in the Linux world there are a lot of C lovers, and don't get me wrong, C has many uses. But the world would benefit if people would write their apps in Python. There would be very few memory related bugs! Many times, the development cycle is slowed dramatically by C's tragically painful memory management. Programmers are dumb. We really are. We make silly off by 1 errors, that oftentimes can make a C program leak memory like a swiss cheese bucket. Write in Python. Its *so* much easier, and is perfectly fast for GUIs, and many server applications.
Python, to me, is the language of the future. It is fast, easy to lean, fun to develop in, and is just plain cool.
After reading some of the info regarding the new Python release I see that they've decided to release 1.6 under an open source license that they believe to be compatible with GPL, although it seems RMS disagrees. This is the second item today that I've seen that has potential licensing woes.
Why is it that we need to many different licenses? If the concern is to be GPL compatible then why not release under the GPL?
It seems to be an important task to iron out the major differences between the most popular licenses and get everybody under one legal roof in case problems start to develop. I doubt we have the legal resources to create and defend rigorously 7 types of licenses.
Althought the algorithm used in the above two programs is the same, the specific semantics are different. In the Python program above, you are using global variables. The C implementation of Python is notoriously slow in looking up global variables. In addition, the range() function allocates an array of values, as other posters have pointed out.
I wrote a version of your program which uses xrange() and saw a significant performance increase:
#!/usr/local/bin/python
endp = 10000;
totl = 0
for i in xrange(2,endp):
for j in xrange(2,i):
if i%j == 0:
break
else:
totl = totl + 1
print totl, 'prime numbers between 1 and', endp
Your original script on my machine produced the following (yes, I'm running on W2K; I'm at work. *sigh*):
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_orig.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m10.215s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.040s
The new script above produced:
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_xrange.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m6.980s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.000s
I was further able to shave another 1.4s off that time by moving everything into a function:
#!/usr/local/bin/python
def getprimes(endp):
totl = 0
for i in xrange(2,endp):
for j in xrange(2,i):
if i%j == 0:
break
else:
totl = totl + 1
return totl
max = 10000
print getprimes(max), 'prime numbers between 1 and', max
This resulted in:
[//c/Projects/Scripts] time python primes_new.py
1229 prime numbers between 1 and 10000
real 0m5.578s
user 0m0.010s
sys 0m0.000s
I'm sure that the real Python gurus can do a whole lot better. You can always post to comp.lang.python and get some truly outstanding help there. It's one of the few remaining civil newsgroups left on Usenet (in my opinion, of course).
Keep in mind, though, that benchmarks like these don't tell you the whole story. For one thing, consider how much more a developer's time will cost you compared to the extra processing time. A good Python programmer will, in many cases, crank out a program in a fraction of the time that a good C programmer will take. This will vary from programmer to programmer, of course, but I have found that to hold true in my particular case.
-kjz
How long will it take
for the Python versus Perl
idiots to post
love,
br4dh4x0r
Note: The above is facetious and non factual. Except maybe the bit about the goats.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
That is all.