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RealNetworks Settles Lawsuit With Streambox

sdo1 pointed out this CNet story: "Out of court settlement, but it looks like Real won and Streambox lost. Real keeps it's broadcast format proprietary, and Streambox can't distribute tools that decode the stream for such fair use puposes as time shifting and personal archiving." This is not good news for anyone hoping for commonsense wisdom from the bench when it comes to the provisions of the DMCA. Instead, it looks like this settlement came about in part because "Judge Marsha Pechman ruled that RealNetworks made a strong case that the Streambox VCR could be in violation of the DMCA."

17 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Re:I'm seriously bothered here... by MenTaLguY · · Score: 3

    Everyone here is ranting and raving about the system and then everyone rants and raves about no one doing anything about it. I'm pretty ticked off about the whole thing too so I need to know how many of you would back me for a political stand.

    Personally, I don't think your involvement with hackers.com would wash very well in the political arena. Keep the day job for now.

    There are, however, some very specific things you can do:

    • if you're a coder, contribute to OGG and other Free media infrastructure projects. write Free software.
    • if you're an artist, writer, or musician, experiment with various donation systems for funding, and try the Open Publication license. We need to be able to present viable alternatives for compensation, and experimentation is the only way to find and fine-tune them.
    • if you're a musician, also boost Vorbis instead of MP3.
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    DNA just wants to be free...
  2. nope... by MenTaLguY · · Score: 3

    Only off-shore piracy will save us.

    No, "piracy" will do about as much for advancing Free media as it has for Free software. Approximately nil.

    RMS didn't set about illegally distributing software to achieve his goals; instead, he wrote his own software that he could legally distribute in the fashion he desired.

    Freely distributable content, voluntarily made by artists, is the only thing that can "save" us.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  3. what kinds of content? by MenTaLguY · · Score: 3

    What kind of content? I'm more interested in the tech end myself, but I'm wondering what kind of Free content people are working on. Free artwork (still visual stuff) is already fairly common...

    Well, I don't know of that much being worked on. Some amount of Free music, and of course visual artists will put some stuff up on their sites, but the latter is often still relatively restricted.

    What I'd really like to see happen is Free animation, film, and other "multimedia" work in particular, as well as written fiction, as well as a simple, consistent, and usable donation system to help support all this.

    Since I'm a coder, visual artist, writer, and musician, I'm starting to experiment with as many of these as I can. I've already started a few personal projects -- in the next year or so we'll see if they get anywhere. Real "multimedia" stuff is down the road, though -- the first few items are manga and serial fiction. I have some ideas for implementing a web-based Street Performer-type system, as well.

    Hopefully I'll manage to squeeze enough time around school and work to get stuff done, and ideally eventually I'll be able to replace the work bit. :P (at least the school bit will end soon)

    What really needs to happen, though, is for multidisciplinary groups to be doing this kind of thing.

    Another thing I'd like to see (and that I plan on doing myself) is people releasing their work into the public domain after 14 years (the original copyright term), to combat/protest the current sick situation where nothing substantial has entered the intellectual/cultural commons since World War I...

    And yes, I realize all this is untried. I'm not demanding that anyone else do this. Someone has to experiment with this stuff, though, and so that's why I want to put my own time (and to some extent money) where my mouth is.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  4. Time to join the OGG project... by MenTaLguY · · Score: 5

    Well, it looks like we're going to be increasingly cut out of legally participating in the current media standards (DVD/CSS, Real, MP3) by software patents and the DMCA.

    Worse, this is extending into hardware. We're nearing the point where it will be illegal to write open-source video drivers, because the connection to the monitor is encrypted in a CSS-like fashion [before you call me paranoid, Intel and a group of other corporations are already developing just that and more -- do some research on HDCP, the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection spec, and its application in e.g. DVI].

    The only compelling argument (for most people) against such draconian hardware measures is the existence legitimate Free alternative technologies (and unencumbered content to go with it!). Of all the boats, let's hope we don't miss this one.

    All those that can, hit ogg.org and similar projects, and see what you can contribute. Myself, I plan on working on the content side of things.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  5. Re:Biased article by jms · · Score: 4

    I'm strongly tempted to produce my own copyrighted work in DVD format and then sue the DVDCCA for circumventing my Technological Protection Measure.

    This is an extremely interesting theoretical attack on the DMCA.

    1) Create a CSS-encrypted DVD. Now that the algorithm is known, this should be trivial.

    2) Get a lawyer and prepare to spend a lot of money.

    3) Send cease and desist orders to one of the established player manufacturers, citing the DMCA. They are producing hardware that can remove the copy protection on your work, without your permission.

    Now, the court can do one of three things:

    1) Order the DVD player manufacturer to stop manufacturing DVD players (which would cause an industry stampede to Congress to get the DMCA modified or repealed)

    2) Toss your claim, thus creating a precedent that the inventor of a TPM is entitled to a perpetual patent-like monopoly over the use of that TPM, and hopefully raising the eyebrows of the appeals courts and the Supreme Court.

    3) Toss the DMCA as unconstitutional.

    Anything I missed?

  6. Prediction by jms · · Score: 5

    When the DMCA is first used successfully against a large publishing company, such as an RIAA or MPAA member, it will be found unconstitutional or suddenly repealed.

    Right now it's being used to crush small, upcoming companies, but it's an incredibly powerful weapon, and if a small company can figure out a way to get their hands on it and successfully use it against a big company, they will be in just as powerful a position as the lawyers who just convinced a judge to allow lawsuits against the LAPD using the RICO statutes.

  7. whoa, flashbacks... by Shoeboy · · Score: 4

    "We are pleased to be working with RealNetworks to put this behind us and to bring the creative energies of our software developers together with the leading company in digital media distribution," Bob Hildeman, CEO of Streambox, said in a statement.
    Am I the only one reminded of middle school and how the bigger kids would put you in a headlock and not let you out until you said that your mom was a whore or something like that?
    Man this brings back memories.
    It's good to see that the tradition lives on in the grownup world.
    --Shoeboy

  8. Time shifting not an inherent right for all media by |DaBuzz| · · Score: 5

    and Streambox can't distribute tools that decode the stream for such fair use puposes as time shifting and personal archiving. This is not good news for anyone hoping for commonsense wisdom from the bench when it comes to the provisions of the DMCA.

    While I certainly see broadcast and cable TV being considered in time shifting arguments, I can't see the same when it comes to streamed content via the Internet, especially when that streaming is via proprietary format at the originating company's expense.

    I'm not a fan of "one time use" entertainment (i.e. Divx) but I'm not about to support a company that circumvents the safeguards put in place by the company selling the product either. I'll simply not use their product, in this case, RealPlayer. Their business model may not be right for you, that doesn't mean someone circumventing their protections is justified nor does it mean YOU have any rights to time shift the content just because you can under other fair use situations like broadcast TV.

    The way I see it, you play by Real's rules (watch it when it's streamed real-time) or don't watch it at all. No one is forcing you to use the technology, God knows Real has huge competition in this area anyway and if their business model is so evil, you can rest assured it will fail due to consumer backlash in the end.

  9. DMCA is anti open-source by interiot · · Score: 3
    As far as I can tell, the DMCA is anti closed-source. As I understand it, the judge's beef with Streambox was that streambox could save files to disk rather than just playing them to screen and then discarding them.

    If someone wrote realplayer in opensource that didn't save anything to disk, that might seem okay at first (it doesn't allow copyright infringement). But since it's open source, it might be next to trivial for someone else to modify the program to save to disk rather than display to screen.

    So, at the very least, when dealing with programs that allow viewing of copyrighted material that would otherwise be locked, it seems like DMCA would require opensource programs to obfuscate the interface between the decoder and the displayer/player.

    But then their copy protection mechanism would be downgraded to how well the OSS coder obfuscated the interface, and might make it illegal to untangle the interface.

    But in the end, it doesn't seem like DMCA is very compatible with OSS.
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  10. Re:Good thing that... by SydBarrett · · Score: 3

    I have a copy of Streambox VCR 1.0 at home. It's a Beta version, and it's been cracked, so that should tell you something about it's stablity. The reason for using this instead of just recording from the audio output is the way the data is delivered to my system. All it takes is a little line noise or server snafu and you will wind up with a recording that has a bunch of blank spaces. Not very fun. Streambox VCR saves the stream to a file, and can also resume it if their is a connection problem. Not very useful for live stuff, but nice for other things like radio show arcives that are deleted every few months. It also tells you some stats and info, etc. It's a really usefull tool for people who have flaky connections. Works with audio and video, but you sometimes have to muck around to find exactly where the audio/video stream is coming from, as it is sometimes bundled up in some java filler.

    You can still get it from some warez sites, if you are into that kinda thing.

  11. This case doesn't mean much by bwt · · Score: 5

    This case didn't really mean a whole lot. Many of the issues that make the DMCA a bad law either weren't present or weren't raised.

    Streambox allowed access to work that was never purchased. This makes a big difference in the fair use analysis.

    Streambox lost under 1201(b)(1) which concerns circumvention for copyright infringement purposes. They did also lose an (a)(2) claim, but they have no way to claim their access is authorized by first sale, since there was no first sale.

    They didn't press any of the Constitutional claims that were raised to Kaplan. They keep their source code proprietary which indicates that they are not trying to communicate coding ideas.

    They can't qualify for the reverse engineering exception because it requires the interoperability not result in copyright infringement.

  12. Somebody got sued for that?!?!? by DeadSea · · Score: 3
    I wrote a little utility that saves the stream from a shoutcast server to your hard drive as an MP3.

    Shoutcast makes a streaming audio server in some ways similar to what real is doing. Is this something they could bitchslap me for if they had the desire?

    I have no idea how shoutcast feels about my program and I doubt anybody there even knows about it. Makes you nervous to develop software these days.

  13. No Legal Ruling!!! by CMU_Nort · · Score: 3

    This was not a legal ruling by the judge and sets no legal precedent whatsoever. Since Streambox agreed to an OUT-OF-COURT settlement. Think for a second about what that means. Obviously Streambox realized they didn't have a leg to stand on and decided to settle rather than fight. This gives no weight to anything since the decision will never be on the books for precedent.

    --
    --------- Beware the dragon, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
  14. These cards will not be compatible with Me. by yerricde · · Score: 3

    Windows Millennium Edition supports driver signing: companies submit their drivers to M$ and they get a logo license and a digital signature. Its audio pipeline will not play copyrighted data over an unsigned (i.e. untrusted) driver.
    <O
    ( \
    XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!

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    Will I retire or break 10K?
  15. Re:Biased article by dmccarty · · Score: 4
    This is an extremely interesting theoretical attack on the DMCA.
    [...] 3) Send cease and desist orders to one of the established player manufacturers, citing the DMCA. They are producing hardware that can remove the copy protection on your work, without your permission.
    [...] Anything I missed?

    Yeah--one big, gaping hole: the player manufacturers are not producing hardware "that can remove the copy protection on your work. " They are producing hardware that can view your work. There's a big difference. If you would try to copy it the Macrovision would kick in and scramble the signal.

    Furthermore, by producing a DVD you implicitly allow it to be viewed on a DVD player. Duh. How else could you possibly view any type of media except on a player that was designed to view that type of media!
    --

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  16. Good thing that... by AntiPasto · · Score: 3
    ...most new sound cards allow you to record the wave output. Now we can all try to settle out of court with RealNetworks. Yipee.

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  17. To Slashdot Editors!!! by LaNMaN2000 · · Score: 5

    Instead of continuing to post various accounts of where the DMCA was used to prevent a company from reverse engineering a protocol to foster interoperability, host a petition on the /. site and allow visitors to sign it. There is nothing that anybody can post to this story that has not already been said about DeCSS, CueCat, etc.

    Not only would you finally be able to produce something tangible that represents the opinions of the community, you would get TONS of page-views as people include a link to the petition on their sites. I would be willing to work with you to draft the petition and I'm sure other /.ers would be willing to help as well. Slashdot's YRO section needs to evolve beyond simply news to include an ACLU-like action center.

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