Slashdot Mirror
Your Tivo Is Watching You
photozz writes: "Salon is running this story about Tivo and their plans to track user viewing habits for targeted ads. It also explores their stance on the 'hacking' of the Tivo for more memory." According to their CEO Mike Ramsay, "We do that in a non-personal way, protecting everybody's privacy," but the details of the actual data aggregation aren't addressed here. That the data is gathered should come as no surprise to anyone who notes that Tivo features a "learning" program-suggestion feature, but the mechanism and how closely data is linked to the customer is something I wish they would explain in more detail.
Bold is mine. This is light years ahead of most privacy policies, and they seem to be upfront about what info they use and what they don't.
Truly anonymous targeted ads are a Good Thing, as long as they are (let's repeat that) truly anonymous. They bring revenue for the company and are perhaps even useful to the consumer. (How much revenue is another thing - he flat-out admits that 80% of people fast-forward the ads.)
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Don't want to pay that monthly fee and have a home computer with a large hard drive? Buy an ATI ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON card. It does everything TiVo does but completely under your control without lifetime monthly fees.
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON
If you don't like it, don't use the service. They don't have a right to your private (although anonymous, they say) information anymore than you have a right to TV.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
I actually happen to like this idea if it done properly. I own a Tivo, and I find it does a pretty good job of picking shows to record that I might like.. and if I don't I just give it's selection a thumbs down on the remote, and it will gradually get better. So if Tivo the company can use the same intelligence to send me comercials that it uses to record me shows, perhaps I might actually watch them. Everyone seems to forget that advertising is not the devil incarnate. If company X is having 60 gig hard drives on sale for $100, you bet I wouldn't mind if they told me. Too many companies advertise fluff that I have absolutly no interest in that I'm just in the habit of fast forwarding through every commercial by now though, but that could change if they could send me commercials that concern products I am interested in. Of course the one thing that does concern me is that they would link my preferences to my name, but Tivo has said they don't do that numerous times.. of course they might be doing it anyway without telling us, but that kind of info has a way of getting out eventually, and then look out lawsuits. just my 2 cents :)
From a statistics point of view, a single persons viewership profile is insignificant. Nobody would ever look at your stats specifically and say "Wow, this fellow sure likes watching the Playboy Channel". They need to amalgamate the stats from thousands of viewers to get any information that's of use. So it's not like anyone is spying directly on you.
"I can only show you Linux... you're the one who has to read the man pages."
I'd like to see their data on me if I got one of these boxes.
"Let's try and target some commercials for him."
"Yeah what commercials does he watch."
"Um none."
"Alright kick in the subliminals."
My Weblog
Through a few links, found this interesting discussion :
;) Also, I can see the following as a challenge don't you?
.sig --
Hacke rs don't upset TiVo--yet
Looks like the discussion started from this site :
The unofficial TiVo Hackers Site
And the fact that the CEO is _okay_ with it is pretty interesting. But what's kinda scary is this quote
"One of the reasons we've created the receiver the way we have is that the disk is sealed into the receiver; you cannot get access to the digital information. So we are somewhat concerned about the ability of people to hack in and get access to the copyrighted material because obviously our partners in the media industry are very concerned about this. "
What! A SEALED disk is what's protecting this information?! Okay, I'm sure this isn't the case (let's hope not!) but still, kind of a funny quote nevertheless
Q: So you're afraid that people will save a bunch of movies, then transfer them from TiVo to their computers and eventually the Net. How possible is this?
A: It's an incredibly difficult task. It's one thing to record what you see onto the TiVo drive, but the format on that drive and how you get access to that drive is totally proprietary to us. It would be very difficult for somebody to actually hack into that. And as far as we know, no one is doing that today.
--
From the article:
So you're afraid that people will save a bunch of movies, then transfer them from TiVo to their computers and eventually the Net. How possible is this?
It's an incredibly difficult task. It's one thing to record what you see onto the TiVo drive, but the format on that drive and how you get access to that drive is totally proprietary to us. It would be very difficult for somebody to actually hack into that. And as far as we know, no one is doing that today.
Security through obscurity... Yeah, that'll work. NOT!
Someone must have thought of this before, but how easy would it be to make one yourself? A capture card, a large hard disk, a cheap processor... Sure, it'd cost more than US$399, but then you'd be calling the shots. That's gotta be worth it.
Has anyone done anything on this?
To tell you the absolute truth, I cant see how TIVO knowing what I watch, even if its tied to me by mention of my name or whatnot, can effect me in any way. I mean, on the net, I want privacy from corporations and individuals because its more personal information at stake (credit card information, visiting 'questionable' sites :). But when I'm watching TV, I WANT Them to know I skip over the sh*itty shows and watch others. Then I will be effecting what they play, and will, in a very small way, effect what they play.
I know a lot of you are saying that this will enable targeted advertisments, Good! at least I wont have to sit through tampon comercials!. And I can always walk out of the room for a snack, its not like targeted ads are more evil then non-targeted ads. and they will probably be limited to a banner anyway since tivo is a bit limited in video capabilities.
And the last argument to tracking what people watch that people often make, that it reveals something about that person to the mega-corporation-super-consperacy. They know that you watch SURVIVOR!! OOOH.
my point is there isn't too much incriminating content on TV, unlike the Internet. Because its so filtered and such a massive media, the only thing they will learn is that you watched the same thing as 500,000 other people that night.
To that, I say big deal. Privacy as an issue matters on the Internet, but I personally don't think it has much bearing on television viewing habits.
As long as they're not tracking me using my personal information and rather doing something like "Tivo #38741 likes the Simpsons and the X-Files, show him some Simpsons ads." I don't care. I'm actually all for it. Maybe that way I'll see ads I care about rather than ads for the fucking Backstreet Boys and their deal with Burger King.
--
If you don't want to share any information, it's simple: UNPLUG FROM THE NET. Obsessing about data sharing, especially when it's used for targeted and personalized content, is so 1995.
day #1 :
.sig --
Daughter watches smurfs.
Dad watches porn.
day #3 :
Dad sees "My Little Pony" commercials.
Daugher sees "I'm So Horny" commercials.
--
Sounds like you can decide whether or not to participate.
He posited a very Net-centric society with most everyone running very heavy filters to extract the data that interested them. Gerrold was obviously worried about this; the protagonist wrote a virus that would simply mess with people's filters a little. It would start letting in a worldview that they wouldn't ordinarily subscribe to. It was designed to shake them up a little without being overtly destructive. It helped keep people from going completely insular and stale.
I can see a couple of strong parallels here, and I don't think this has crossed very many people's minds. We already know about the obvious abuses: if they really knew what people watched, it would be fairly easy to determine a good chunk of the potentially-rebellious population simply by accessing their viewing records. Folks who watch a lot of TV Nation and Discovery Channel are not likely to be nearly as malleable as the Millionaire crowd.
Right, you knew that. But I think there's a more subtle danger here. In essence, by targeting you with personalized ads and, presumably, actual programs, aren't they able to manipulate your worldview to an astonishing degree? Wouldn't they be able to sort of bury you into a feedback loop? IE, if you are paranoid, feed you programs to fuel your paranoia and extract more money from you for bomb shelter supplies?
I don't think this is possible, I think this is INEVITABLE. They're going to do whatever they can to extract as much money from you as possible. Telling you the truth is not on the agenda. If lying to you extracts more cash from you, that is the right thing to do from the perspective of the stockholders.
Personally, I do NOT NOT NOT like the fact that ANYONE can control what I see but me. I'm unwilling to surrender that much of my choice. Admittedly there is already a great deal of manipulation going on in the media (if you don't think so, go read some foreign newspapers -- you'll be AMAZED at what you don't hear about here.) But TiVO is going from the subtle and indirect to the obvious and blatant.
I worry, as did Gerrold, about the feedback loops in self-referential reinforcing programs and behavior. That way leads to madness -- literally. As a culture we are already nuts, bonkers, crazy as loons. Individual people I know are almost always quite sane and reasonable, but in a group we believe in Life as Seen On Television, generally don't question what's on the tube. We cherish and embrace simulated homicide as light entertainment before dinner, and pay no attention whatsoever to state-sanctioned executions or the fact that we have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other First World country.
We're already nutty as fruitcakes, as a group. What are we going to do when they can control what we see directly? Do we go mad one by one instead?
You see, the nagative implications outweigh the positive ones. Yes, there are positive advantages to targeted adverts, like showing you something you might actually be interested in instead of something you're almost surely not.
However, what we rail against is the potential for abuse. To generate targeted ads, there must be a database of your preferences. This information about you could be used against you, to harm your character or reputation, or as evidence against you in a criminal proceeding.
For example, tracking information indicating that you frequent gay/lesbian/bisexual sites could be used to unwillingly "out" you, and even to destroy your career. One of the most notable cases is that of Tim McVeigh--not the bomber, though they share names--who was outed to the military by one of AOL's "guides" who handed over information about McVeigh's interest in gay chatrooms.
Also, databases of consumer buying patterns have already been used against people in criminal cases. The example which comes to mind immediately is that of a small-town marijuana dealer unfortunate enough to use a store discount card at the supermarket--police subpoenad his shopping records, to ascertain whether he bought an unusually large number of plastic baggies or other "drug paraphernalia." Let's not forget that, while he was a criminal, the legalization of marijuana is favored by an extraordinarily large percentage of Americans, and that the potential for such databases to be exploited in investigations goes far beyond this.
Do you want your TiVo records to indicate that you watch a lot of softcore Cinemax porn when you're falsely accused of rape? Believe it or not, conservative juries can look down on even softcore legal stuff, and some judges will let it in. Or, what if you watch a lot of The Disney Channel and Nickelodeon and you're falsely accused of child molestation? Such "evidence" would *definitely* be used against you since a psychiatrist would be called to testify as to how well you fit the profile of a pedophile--watching excessive amounts of kids' shows is common pedophiliac behaviour.
Even worse, corporations have total control over this data--they can merge it into vast databases, covering every aspect of your life. That's what several corporations are aiming to do. What if this data is made available to other corporations for a small fee? Well, then a prospective employer could do a background check which includes your TV viewing habits and shopping habits, and screen you out because you watch too much Cinemax porn or too many mindless sitcoms, or because you buy too many OTC medicines and must be a health risk. Right now, privacy policies aren't really legally binding and can be changed without notice, so all this information could be merged into a seamless database without any legal recourse to stop it.
It's quite clear that the benefits of seeing ads I might be more inclined to click through are far surpassed by the risks. It's all in the name of making human beings into blathering, mindless consumers instead of citizens anyway--do I really care what ads they throw at me? Fuck no, I ignore them, like a good *individual* should. The less I give to corporations or support their domination of every media outlet, the better.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
It's suprising how strong the protections are. A specific court order is required to disclose video rental data. A search warrant isn't sufficient; the renter has to have the opportunity to contest the request before the info is disclosed to law enforcement. This is much stronger than the requirements for phone records, and stronger even than the requirements for wiretaps.
Why is it so strong? It's called the "Bork Bill", because it was enacted after somebody got the video rental records of Judge Robert Bork (the Republican moralist and author of "Slouching to Gomorrah") and revealed that he has some unusual video watching interests.
Whether what Tvio does involves is covered is a nice legal question. The original law is narrow, but one can argue by analogy that a new technology performing a comparable function is covered.
TiVo has stated in the past that they do not send your thumbs-up/thumbs-down ratings back to their servers. It's just a preference algorithm that picks shows you may like. Both the suggestions and the method for determining them stay on the box (as I understand it).
TiVo does collect information regarding shows recorded, commercials fast-forwarded through, etc. but only at the aggregate level. They don't use anything lower than the zip code level.
I don't have a problem with this. It's the best money I've ever spent. I'd sooner give up the rest of my home theater components. Um, except the TV. I kinda need that with the TiVo.
What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
You'll find hundreds WND stories on Y2K and every single one of them utterly alarmist.
WND also ran banner ads on many of these stories, offering sets of videotapes on y2k preparation - including some really survivalist nonsense - for hundreds of dollars. The videotapes and other survivalist nonsense were produced by... you guessed it, WND.
--
As a Tivo user, I've read the tivo section of the avs forum linked to from the tivo web site. This has come up, and after learning about how these targeted ads will work, I am confident that my privacy isn't being intruded upon.
First, what's probably going to happen is the Tivo service is going to reserve space on the tivo for these targeted ads. They are doing this in new models already. Second, Tivo doesn't upload personal info with you viewing habits. All they know is what was watched, not who watches it (yes, it would be easy to link it, but thier privacy policy, and representatives guarantee that they will not link said data if you don't let them, and you can even opt out of the aggregate info upload. Third, all information on what YOU watch on Tivo is stored locally. Not on a server. If the unit crashes, they can't help you. You get a new Tivo and start setting up recordings, giving thumbs up/down on shows like you did when you first got it.
So, I gather from what I DO know about Tivo, that what will happen is that the locally stored data will be used to record ads that match your viewing habits into the reserved space mentioned above. How you will be presented with these ads, I don't know, but the point is that all of the decisions on what you see are determined locally. Tivo doesn't know what Joe Tivo User watches. They do know that X people what dramas, Y people what sci-fi, and Z people watch both. That kind of data they know.
So I'm not concerned about Tivo specifically. But just wait until other companies get into the game. Microsoft is targeting the PVR market; how do you think they'll handle your privacy?
The thing is hackable, you know. It runs Linux. If you're worried about what it's sending back, did it occur to nobody to just look?
Three files are uploaded to TiVo daily: tivoLog.pub, tivoLog.prv, and a log for 'myworld', the program that runs the machine.
tivoLog.pub appears to contain info on internal errors that have occured, but is usually empty.
tivoLog.prv is the issue here, it contains a log of every program watched and every button pressed on the remote.
Now, looking at the dialup scripts (Yes! It's all scripted!) You can see how it RANDOMIZES the name of the file before uploading it. No identifying information at all is in the file itself, the serial number isn't there. The serial number is used as the filename for upload, after being randomized. It appears possible for TiVo to change a setting and have the serial as the file name not randomized, but this is not set. It seems to be for debug purposes.
Sheesh.
Now the kicker: why shouldn't they have this info? It says it's taken in the manual. It says so on the site. Call up customer service and ask, they won't deny that they get it. One thing they do claim is that it's totally anonymous (true) and if you still don't want it, you can tell them to turn it off and it's done (also true, there's a setting in the box for it).
One final word (to correct a bad assumption): The TiVo Suggestions are computed entirely on your personal TiVo. No TiVo servers are used to compile this info, none of your thumbs ratings for shows are sent back to TiVo for this purpose. It's all local.
From now, before you bash something, learn what's really happening. It's fine to argue in the abstract, but a computer is not abstract, it's a real physical device. It's simpler to actually hack the thing and find the real story.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.