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Package Shipping From USA To Russia?
The following words are from Pavel Koshevoy:
About a month ago I got an e-mail from a friend of mine in Khabarovsk, Far East Russia. We were classmates until about 5 years ago, so we brought each other up to date on what we are up to. He recently got his diploma in CS so I asked him if he had a chance to play with Linux. He hadn't and was unwilling to install it because of the shortage of diskspace on his Win98 box. So, I decided to put together an upgrade package for him and did so from new and used parts (total value about $300). Now...how do you ship it?
After talking to DHL with unsatisfactory results, I decided to try UPS. I called them up and ask whether I can ship a $300 package to Khabarovsk, Russia, and be able to pay the duties on that myself. They said yes and set me up with a UPS account which costs $45 a year (to do this with DHL, you have to be a business, no exceptions). Not bad, I thought, so Aug. 22 I shipped the package (after spending hours filling forms, of course) and happily send a tracking number to my friend telling him how he could track it over the Web.
Two days later I check up on the UPS tracking Web page and discover this:
Aug 24, 2000 6:51 P.M. LOUISVILLE INTL, KY, US TRANSFER NOTIFICATION FOR INFO FOR DELIV 5:00 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS 3:28 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS 2:59 P.M. MOSCOW, RU DESTINATION SCAN 2:59 P.M. MOSCOW, RU FORMAL ENTRY REQUIRD FOR HIGH VALUE SHPT 1:20 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS;EXCEPTION RESOLUTION NOTIFICATION-OPENSo, I call UPS and ask them about my package? The operator tells me that there seems to be a restriction on packages going into Russia, that the value of the package has to be under $100 when it is shipped anywhere except 5 cities: Moscow, Nizhnij Novgorod, Krasnodar, Novorossiysk, Togliatti and St. Petersburg. Packages sent to these five cities can be valued as high as $10,000. Later, another UPS rep calls and tells me that the package is valued over $100 and will not be accepted, and wanted to know if I would pay $164.25 to get it back. Eventually I convince UPS to return my package free of charge, however there was still the question of the original $184.25 charges from UPS for the shippment. Until today (2000/09/13) this was still up in the air. I would call UPS and complain, they would put in an urgent message to my account executive, and nothing would happen. This went on for two weeks. When I finally got a real person who could authorize a refund, she was not willing to do it for the full amount. She claimed that since I had a UPS account, I was responsible for knowing about the $100 limit, never mind that I opened the account with one goal in mind - to be able to send the package and pay the duties so that my friend wouldn't have to. However at this point I was too frustrated with them, so we agreed to go 50/50.
Then she sent me an e-mail which wound me up even more: the $100 limit includes the shipping charges.
This is the first time I was ever told this. Up until now I was going to split my package into three packages and resend them separately. You have to realise that the lowest shipping cost to Russia is $77.50, and that's for a 1 lb. package. Plus, there is a $20 surcharge for shipment to Russia for a total of $97.50. With the $100 restriction in place the value of the package must be at or below $2.50! Something is clearly very wrong here.
Effectively, UPS cannot ship packages of any reasonable value higher than $2.50 to any cities in Russia except the five I have mentioned, Furthermore, when looking through the UPS RATE AND SERVICE GUIDE I could not find anywhere mention of this restriction. No, instead, Russia is put in the same category as Norhtern Mariana Islands, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Solomon Islands. Do all those destinations also have the same restriction on the value of the package?
So, I insisted on the full refund, and I've got it with a warning that this is a one-time deal and they will not do it for me again. Even though I've got my money back, I am still upset at UPS over the grief they put me through. I opened an account with them just so I could send this package and pay duties for it. Their service guide should not even list Russia as far as I am concerned. Even more puzzling is the exception that they have made for the other five cities.
I still want to send this package to my friend, so if anyone has any ideas I would like to hear them, please.
Sincerely, Pavel (Paul) Koshevoy
Hardware prices (wholesale) in Russia and other former Soviet Union countries are the same as in the U.S. When visiting Ukraine I was told this by someone who runs a small PC outfit. Given this, I'd avoid the headache and send/wire/transfer money.
As y'all go around moderating up all sorts of conspiracy theories and wacky schemes and bad ideas (like declaring zero value on a $300 package), this person is right and gets marked as flamebait.
/. community any topic, even a nontechnical one like this, and hundreds of people who don't know a damn thing about it will spout off all sorts of bilge, apparently. Heaven forbid anyone here acknowledge that they simply don't know.
Yes, folks, here in the real world there are sometimes correct answers. In response to rampant theft and corruption, most parcel-delivery companies either charge insane rates (DHL) or simply refuse to deliver to all but the most accessible, modern Russian cities (FedEx, etc.). In response to this, thousands of small courier companies have sprung up. They operate out of storefronts in immigrant neighborhoods. They advertise in emigre newspapers and on the web. They rent container space on ships and hire local delivery people. They send small, urgent packages with couriers. They get stuff delivered. Usually with 95% of DHL's reliability at half DHL's price.
This isn't a coding challenge with points awarded for the cleverest theoretical solution. It's a simple question of how to get a parcel sent reasonably safely and resonably frugally to East Podunk, Russia (or Paraguay, or rural Vietnam, or Sierra Leone, or Uzbekistan, for that matter). And the way most private citizens do it is through these small delivery companies.
Give the
I'm starting to think that UPS actually has no clue what the hell they're doing when it comes to international shipping.
I recently setup a full e-commerce site for a client who was located in Mexico. His site is run out of the US and his credit card processing is done through Bermuda but all his shipments come direct from the manufacturer in Mexico. Most of the comapnies we had to deal with had no problem understaning this....but not UPS.
We wanted to use some of the tools UPS has been hyping for e-bussiness. Specifically we wanted the tools for calculating shipping costs, estimating shipping times, generating tracking numbers, and for integrating shipping with your existing site. But after nearly two months of e-mail and phone calls I still had not made any progress getting these tools from UPS.
On thier website the say they have to licences availabe a developer licence which gives you full access to their tools so you can use them with all of your clients. And the end-user licence which must be filled out and applied for by the company doing the shipping. I filled out the form for the developer license explaining that I had a number of clients who were intersted in using these tools and that at least one of them was located in Mexico. I got back a form letter saying that perhaps the end-user tools would be better for me.
I e-mailed their customer support saying that the end-user tools really weren't a solution for me since I wasn't about to have all of my clients go to the UPS website and register separately. I never received a reply. Nor did I receive a reply to the second or third e-mails sent at weekly intervals.
On the phone I was told "Just fill out the form on the website and someone will get back to you". Even after I explained that I had already done that and that my e-mails were being ignored. Finally a rep told me that there really was no such thing as the developers license and he had no idea why their website (Which had been redesigned a week earlier) still had references to it.
Eventually their rep directed me to a different page and told me to fill out the form there with my clients information and that I would get a username and password to download the tools with. But on that page Mexico was not a choice for country of origin. I told the rep this and he said "Oh don't worry just fill out that form". When I told him I would have to enter incorrect informaiton to do so he told me "Yeah, just fill it out.". I then asked point blank "So you are telling me to lie on this form graning me legal permission to use your software? You really want me to enter false information and lie about the country of origin?". Of course he came back saying "oh no, I can't tell you that".
Finally after his local rep in Mexico had ignored him for almost 2 months my client managed to get an address out of his local rep which would allow you to register from Mexico. But only for the tracking tool none of the others.
And then to rub salt in my wounds the next three packages I received shipped by UPS all arrived heavily dammaged. I e-mailed customer support at UPS with a polite letter explaining all the problems I've had dealing with them and saying that receiving three heavily damaged packages in a row was the final straw. As a consumer I was going to vote with my money and no longer choose UPS as my shipper. Two weeks later I received a phone call from UPS appologising but saying they needed my shipper ID number to register the complaint. At which point I explained again as I did in my letter than I am not a shipper I am a consumer who often chooses UPS as a shipper when I order through the web or mail-order because of their price and usual quality of service. Apparantly this was too much for the rep to understand as she appologized and said she'd have soneone else contact me.
The next person to contact me again required a shipper ID! Finally after 10 minutes on the phone trying to explain the whole thing I said "Look this is silly. I don't have the time to waste on this. Just tell your manager I'm upset because you've consistantly done a bad job and that UPS just lost a customer".
--- Juggle juggle@hitesman.com
Look, you're missing the obvious. Self-insure your package. Declare the value of your shipment to be $0. Now, this may get your shipment in hot water with customs people, but I tend to doubt it. All this will end up meaning is that if the shipment is lost, broken, or stolen, you will have to pay for it yourself. But it's only $300, it's not going to break the bank or anything.
Also, does your friend have any friends or relatives in Moscow or any of the other cities?
I've shipped computers (usually laptops) internationally before and have found that declaring value only raises stupid questions. Once I was sent a laptop (purchased in the US) from Austria, and it was held up in NYC for 3 days by customs because the sender declared a value of $3k or something and there were issues of duties. Totally absurd -- as if someone would avoid customs duties on an IBM Thinkpad by buying it in AUSTRIA and having it FEDEXed priority overnight to the US!
You're missing the point. It would cost $10,000 there, and you would _not_ be able to ship it because the damn thing will be stolen... I'm sure its hurting their imports considerable too... otherwise there wouldn't be such a deman.
This is because there's an extremely large black market in Russia. They won't accept anything above $100 because it'll get stolen, and then UPS has to pay for the insurance.
And you won't get any of this stupid screwing around like you describe either. They know what they're doing, they don't toss stuff on the next plane going that direction and hope for the best :)
Yes and no -- you're right that DHL is best for overseas shipping, but it still is pretty crappy. They subcontract to local folks everywhere (that's why they're better -- they've got 50 years worth of international contacts, not 20) so you're still at the mercy of the locals.
We had a $3000 computer held up in "customs" in Ecuador last year -- our rep went to pick it up from the shippers, and the local shipping company said they needed $2000 CASH or they wouldn't hand it over. We spent 6 months fighting with DHL to have them bring it back to us (similar to this guy's UPS experience -- they want to charge you to return the package!?).
I'm an investigator. I followed a trail there.
Q.Tell me what the trail was.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
I'll throw in the full story for free to the winner.
Interesting sidenote: My karma is now 32676743. Yes, really all those numbers. Looks like somebody tried to bitch-slap me and overshot....I guess Taco, like Microsoft, doesn't like his products sold on eBay.
--
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Are Russians (except those 5 cities) totally unable to order merchandise (online or via catalogs)? I doubt it. Ask your friend how things arrive and then you'll know how to send.
--
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http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
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(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
My recently Americanized Russian wife says:
I totally believe it. You could suggest to that guy to find the russian
community in his town - I'm pretty sure Louisville has one, and they
usually have some private package shipping service going on, for nominal
fee. It originated when things were bad with food in Russia, and lots
of Russian stores in the states started offering food packages to
Russia. I've certainly seen ads here in the Houston store about sending
anything over.
--binkley
And I don't even the remotest desire to ship anything to Russia.
The defining point of a nerd is a thirst for knowledge. Discussions such as this broaden my understanding of the world.
And to be hones, I'd rather see questions such as this than 3/4 of the .mp3/napster or kde vs. gnome stories that have posted almost daily for the past three months. Its amazing how the exact same flame wars erupt with each one.
of course, YMMV...
Tried going via USPS? I bet the are a lot less expensive.
They are a lot less expensive, and a lot slower. Plus once it gets to Russia you depend on the local post to deliver it, which is an iffy proposition, especially it is anything of value, since it will most certainly be opened.
Then put anything you want in the box and ship it. No one at the border will want to touch the thing. Heh.
EMUSE.NET
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
Absolutely; DHL is great, they could deliver to dubai in the UAE 10 years ago in a couple of days rather than the months it takes to normally get/send stuff.
So, I suggest going to town hall, and registering a virtual company (I believe that's what its called). Its basically a name that's like to your name; then you open a bank account to accept money in that name or pay in that name. The IRS will probably want to set it up with a unique tax ID, but then perhaps that's not necessary since a virtual company is not limited in anyway. (i.e. you are personally liable for the operations of that company, which is okay for a small thing).
Then go to DHL and get them to do it right with this company name.
Alternatively, The Island of Nassau in the Bahamas has this deal that you pay them money yearly to have a corporation, they officially give you an employee that does the local paperwork, and a plaque on the wall of a building (that looks like its made of plaques). But this is costly, and only really necessary if you need incorporation for yourself, which I don't really need... but I found its available so... I don't know how to contact them and set this sort of thing up though, sorry.
-Daniel
Before the one-click patent fiasco, I ordered "October Sky" (with script) as a gift from Amazon when the VHS firt came out and sent it as a gift wrapped present to some friends in Russia. After a while I inquired and discovered that they had the package delivered but were unable to receive it because taxes were due on the package that exceeded their monthly income. Amazon had declared the actual value of the VHS tape ($120) for purposes of customs, and there is a huge tax placed on such "imports" which must be paid by the recipient.
Seastead this.
I live in Brazil and we had a recent problem with UPS. My mother is the president of a non-profit organization for fighting a rare genetic disease, called Wilson's Disease.
This association gives medicine against this disease for free to people who cannot afford it, to keep them from dying. Its money comes from donations.
Well, we imported some boxes of this medicine, from US to Brazil. Unfortunatelly we chose UPS. When the medicine was sent to UPS, it was sent as "prescription drugs" in the UPS bill,so it was very clear it was medicine.
Medicine, in Brazil, has no customs taxes. UPS knows it, for sure, as this can't be the first time they deliver medicine.
Guess what? BEFORE the product even arrived to Brazil, UPS had already paid customs a total of US$ 1660. This even before customs asked for this money. When the medicine arrived, customs noticed it was medicine and didn't charge anything. But, oops, UPS had already paid for that. They probably do this to expedite things.
What happened next is that UPS wanted to be reimbursed for this money, so they were not allowing us to get that medicine box.
Lots of phone calls to the Brazilian UPS branch, to no avail. They simply said they'd keep the box till we refunded them.
As people could die without this medicine, and negotiations with UPS were resulting in nothing, the association had no choice but to borrow money to pay UPS, as it was urgent, and we intended to negotiate later.
Now we're asking UPS to refund us, from this money they charged us because of their mistake.If they don't refund us, we're going to the press, both here in Brazil and US, and show everybody what happened, what probably will cause far more damage for them than $1600.
I even registered this site (that URL translates to something like "beware of UPS"), that has no content yet, but will be dedicated to showing this and other UPS errors, in case they refuse to give the money back.
It'd be nice if you post here on Slashdot your problems with UPS, so I can put the messages on this site. You can also e-mail me the problems you had, if you wish. If the site goes up, I'll use them.
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
I have had some success with shipping goods to the former Soviet Union. Granted, this was in 1996 and I was shipping to Kiev, however this approach may still have some effect. Just remember three magic words - No Commercial Value. Of course, it also helped that I was doing this through a business, so I was able to use DHL.
Democracy is dead. All kneel to the Commander In Thief.
A while ago I worked for an American Company that was rolling out new servers to all their locations world wide. One of these servers was a rather high end IBM RS/6000 Unix box. Since the company in question sends items to russia by the Metric Ton getting it there wasn't a problem. What was the problem was when the computer was uncrated we found that the computer had been replaced with some large rocks while it went through customs.
Even if your package had made it into customers you'd have a 50-50 chance of ever seeing it again. You're friend is screwed. You're better off wiring US cash and letting them buy it locally.
Being an ex-native of Nizhnij Novgorod, I can shed some light on why those 6 cities get special treatment.
Moscow and St. Peterburg are trivial -- the two metropolises are far larger than any other city in Russia, have the highest density of foreigners, economic activity, etc.
Nizhnij Novgorod and Togliatti, both noticeably smaller, are the sites of two major automotive factories, which entails (1) a lot of economic activity, (2) increased foreign ties, and, most importantly (3) much more mafia interest. Obviously all 3 have their say.
Krasnoyarsk and Novorossiysk are a bit more of a suprise, but presumably this links with their raw materials industries, which scores on the same 3 points as above.
Does this excuse UPS behavior? No. But definitely goes to show that the local distribution of power has serious effects on the operations of a US company. Hrm....
And for the record, in terms of population, Moscow/StPetersburg/NN are the top 3, but the other 3 are minor towns that aren't much more important than most US county seats.
// zyqqh
My wife is Russian and we regularly send items from food to perscription drugs to Yoshkar-ola,500 miles east of Moscow. and we us the U.S. Postal services. As long as the package is registered the Russians will not steal it. For computer parts or medicine use American Express. We have even sent $500 this way! It ussually arrives in under 7 days. For bulk items like food or books ship it by sea. It will arrive in two months. However do not insure anything for more than $99 dollars. If your item is insured for more than 100 then the customs agents will charge the recipients %35 of its value.
Anyone who actually does business in third world countries (and yes, Russia outside those five cities does qualify) will tell you that DHL is the most competent service by a great deal. Anybody can fly a box to Stuttgart, it's when you need to get something to darkest Sierra Leone that you see who really knows what they're doing :)
:)
So jump through whatever hoops there are to use DHL, and you'll have at least as good a chance of getting your stuff where it's supposed to go as you will with any other service, you can be quite confident of that.
And you won't get any of this stupid screwing around like you describe either. They know what they're doing, they don't toss stuff on the next plane going that direction and hope for the best
No, I am not making a "spy" joke. A very close friend of mine has a tiny little import/export business of her own to/from some isolated parts of the former Soviet empire. Socks, sweaters, gum, candy that sort of thing. Her boyfriend has been in the business for a few years, and travels back and forth between the US and Russia quite often. Perhaps you could poke around the local Russian immigrant enclaves and find some Russian-branded products and work your way up the distribution network until you find the entrepeneur running the thing. He or she would probably be willing to strike a deal to hand-carry your goods to a trusted courier in-country at the other end, and he/she also knows how to get through customs. Another couple I know, retired from running *the* biggest (legal/non-govt't) import/export business in the early to mid 80's brought back thousands of dollars worth of jeweled boxes and whatnot from Russia without problems. The secret? Put all the clothing, underwear, etc. into one suitcase and all the valuables in the other and make sure they get the "clothes" one first. Helps if there's some lingerie in there, embarrasses the customs guy and they don't want to open the other one...
-cajun
Just a thought: go to an outfit like Postal Express or Mailboxes Etc. They do shipping thru businesses like DHL and Fedex, and might have a relationship that would allow it through. Another thought: there is a 'general info' number for queries to the U.S. gov't in the phone book. Call it and ask what office could handle a question on how to ship goods to Russia. They should be able to refer you to someone. I once had a question on what power standards were used in Lituania and I got through to someone who could tell me using this method. Thought 3: check with an airline that flys to Russia. It's just possible that they might be able to handle shipping some items for pickup at the freight office of a local airport. I've never tried this overseas, but it's worked for me within the U.S.
"If I have seen further than other men, it is by stepping on their glasses." - Michael Swaine
To do this, your friend needs to find out what airlines service the local airport. Once you've got that list of airlines, contact them, and see how they would like to handle shipping a small package (that you're willing to have opened/inspected in your presence) to that city. You may have to arrange to have it shipped to the US/EU offices of that airline before they can get it on a plane, but it is doable. Once it arrives there, your friend just needs to go down to the airport and claim the package.
I don't know what the charges would be for something like this - the last time I did it was in 92, and that was just to San Diego. But I know it (generally) can be done.
Look for the Washington address at the bottom
TCL
Search some of these other things Google locates
The key is not that you are shipping a parcel, but that you need Logistical support, which is the business of moving goods from point to point and handling customs issues for you. This is what Logistics companies do best, hopefully you can find one which will help you with Small-Pack (a single parcel.)
Good luck.
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The problem is that you and too many other people don't understand Russia. This is a country which never even flited with capitalism until now and is actually flourishing with the most fundamental, unregulated, unfettered capitalism at in its purist form. Only after Putin, or his successor, puts an enforced system of law in place will it resemble the west, then they can winge on about IP, monopolies, etc.
Fortunately, there are lots of good, honest, hardworking and intelligent people in Russian and something good will arise from the ashes. The signs are there if you can pierce the ugly pall american media casts over lands in central asia.
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Based on how everything else in Russia works, you probably just have to do a little lubrication of the machinery. I've never been a big fan of bribery, and I don't necessarily recommend it unless you know what you're doing, but that may be what is required to get that package through.
and how do you propose Pavel does this? The honor system? Staple a bunch of $10 bills to the box and put a note on the outside, "Please remove your bribe and pass this package of absolutely no value on to the next carrier"
I'm sure there are better ways. Many shippers have partners within other countries. You may have to do some research to find them, starting with the good old USPS. Also, check with airlines as they often will accept packages (your friend may have to go to the airport to pick it up) as air freight (pretty reasonable, too.)
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar