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Honda unveils Fuel Cell powered car
fprintf writes "According to an article at cars.com Honda has unveiled a fuel cell powered car to the world press. The article is not very in depth about the technology, but exudes the possibilities. There are comments about the engineers working on the safety of hydrogen storage. Most interestingly, they say that 2003 or 2004 are the target dates for commercial availability. Cool!"
First, you'll get the "shut down the oil industry and our economy goes to pot" argument. Which in the US is particularly funny because we don't grow our own oil. I know this for a fact because during 1990 I photocopied a stack of oil leases twenty-three stories high that were being sold off and shut down, so that we could continue to funnel all our resources into getting it from Kuwait. Whoops!
After that petroleum industry advocates will likely give a long, complex argument to the effect that, while it's agreed that it's a finite resource, they want you to share their Pollyanna optimism that we will always be able to find just that little last bit of petroleum to feed our habit. Often I've seen it expressed like this: "we aren't running out of oil, we're just waiting for the next good way to extract it from the earth." While that may be currently true, it's also true that we use oil for other things than burning (plastics come to mind) and we maybe could make more effective use of the stuff than torching it at twenty or so miles per gallon. Also I hasten to point out that when and if the end of the oil economy does come it will be much uglier if we don't prepare for it than if we do. Can you just imagine the entire city of New York without electricity or transportation?
Automobiles utilising this technology would definately help us in the battle against pollution, however the problem of creating cheap vehicles using this technology would definately be a problem. Supposidly they will begin in the 50k price range, and that will definately be a factor in how quickly they come into mainstream use.
The way gas prices have been this summer however...
UBU
According to the article, the car is a joint venture between Honda, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, and 'other automakers'. One of its biggest drawbacks is its limited range (110 miles before it must be refueled.)
Well, DiamlerChrysler introduced this car in early 1999, and it supposedly has a range of 280 miles.
Don't believe the hype.
Browser? I barely know her!
I commend Honda for this but I am still extremely disappointed in general society.
I thought that if anything would incite alternative fuel/practices discussion, the recent petrol shortages in western nations would have done so. I watch CNN daily and I heard not 1 single reference to the necessity for increased R&D or anthing related! It was all "We need a way to not only pump our poor planet dry, but also provide this non-renewable resource for such a low price that people waste as much as they possibly can."
I'm not a "dirt eating tree unf'er" or something, but I do have a fucking brain. Our society is completely reliant upon petrol and I think it goes to show how dense and narrow minded the majority of people are when alternative fuels and increased R&D are not even discussed. And don't post a reply saying that, while that's important, we need to solve the current issue of fuel shortages. Of course I know that, but it appears that there is zero focus on the mid to long term solutions, the truly important issues!
Hello, my name is x and I hate people.
Regards
Even with the problem with hydrogen's explosiveness
Most people forget you drive around in a moltov cocktail every day; Your gas tank is just as likely to get smashed, and could possibly be even MORE dangerous because gasoline will pour and stick around on the pavement for some time, and this is nasty if it's on you and it's burning. Hydrogen, on the other hand, will dissapate quite quickly if there's a tank rupture, and the tank itself will not explode (due to hydrogen exploding). I've tried to make propane cylinders explode in the past, and it's not as easy as you might think. If you shoot one, it will most likely just rupture and vent, even in the presence of fire (in my experience!). This danger is WAY overplayed in the media, especially concidering that car gas tanks are low-tech compared to the fuel cells used in race cars. (Fancy gas tanks, not real fuel cells :).
where would the hydrogen to power our cars come from?
There's lots of hydrogen available in hyrdocarbons. Reformers take a hydrocarbon source (be it gasoline, or much similer methanol) and turn it into hydrogen + co2 for use in the cell. There's LOTS of ways to make hydrocarbons, and lots more to process them. Cost is another matter, but it won't be much more than I'm going to be paying for gas in a couple years. One good source is methanol, which can be produced from cracking oil, or distilling.
One last issue is the water vapor output. While we currently worry about CO2 as a greenhouse gas, H2O can be just as bad.
Can be, but it ain't. Water vapour falls out of the sky quite nicely at cold temperatures - and will just appear in the form of snow or rain, and I can guarantee you the amount of water vapour produced by all the cars in California will pale in comparison to a good, hard rainfall. This is a non-issue. Water is EVERYWHERE on the planet. Relative to the natural evaporation off the oceans, you're not even statistically relevant. The waste products from producing the hydrogen will be more problematic (of which CO2 is the most likely canadate, since you can't just electrolyze water - it needs to be water free of impurities, for example, if you try it with Sea water, you'll get chlorine gas. Not nice.
Just some thoughts. Fuel cell technology is the future imho. If you want a sports car though, you'll be running gasoline or alcohol for as long as I can see, however. Good news is alcohol doesn't cost much more per liter than gasoline up here in Canada! Hehehe.
Just some thoughts.
..don't panic
The fuel cell technology for these vehicles comes from Ballard Power Systems, in Burnaby (suburb of Vancouver), Canada. They can be used in buses, trucks and submarines!!!, for stationary generators, and more. Try these links for more info.
Mass transit.
http://www.ballard.com/bus_demo.asp
Some other cars.
http://www.ballard.com/trans_app.asp
Mass transit.
http://www.ballard.com/bus_demo.asp
The skin of the hindenburg was coated in a paint consisting primarily of powdered aluminium. Recent research has shown that a buildup of static electricity in the ship created an arc which set fire to the skin, which then burnt uncontrollably. In fact, the builders of the hindenburg knew this pretty much straight after the hindenburg disaster, when they went back and tested the fabric in the skin for just this type of thing. They kept the findings secret for fairly obvious reasons.
It was not the hydrogen exploding which destroyed the hindenburg.
In fact the hindenburg was designed to dissipate leaking hydrogen very rapidly to the outside atmosphere, to avoid the build up of free hydrogen within the skin.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
If everyone had a little algae pond outside their house
My problem with that is we'd all have a little mosquito farm in our backyards too . . . I hate mosquitoes.