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A Look At The Panasonic ShowStopper
MuthaPussBucket writes: "Luckily for consumers, prices of hard drives continue to come down and now
more manufacturers such as Sony and Panasonic have licensed the TiVO and
ReplayTV technology to use in their own products. SE takes a look at the Panasonic ShowStopper Hard Disk Recorder Model PV-HS2000.
This one looks as though it's one of the pricer ones but it's also one of
the better models."
ReplayTV won't let you watch TV while it makes its call. A bit stupid really.. Tivo can make its call anytime and you can watch TV while it does it. Totally background.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Kids are going to be exposed to content that a lot of people don't approve of whether or not it is on at (7 or 9)||(8 or 10). Whether they hear about the R-rated movies from their friends at school, or see them on TV it really doesn't matter.
What does matter is the kids understand why the content isn't appropriate for them. Tell them straight up that you don't want them to see that movie because there is too much violence in it, or the language is rude, or whatever. The broad generalizations that programs or movies are naughty doesn't provide the child enough information to understand why.
I'm not directly shooting at your parenting techniques, because I don't know you, don't know your kids, obviously you know what's best. But, don't expect the world to change for you, or even remain in stasis. You have the right to censor anything your children see, but don't even try to censor what my kids see. They can watch anything they understand, and it's my job to make them understand it.
This unit does have a "record to VCR" option. If you like the show, you can keep it. You're stuck with VCR quality, but you can keep it without chewing up disk space. (You need the VCR, too, but most people already have one.)
- W. Blaine Dowler
http://www.bureau42.com
If you want the product, you don't need an ad for it. Advertisement is about making you want a product you either a) did not know that it existed or b) don't need or did not want before.
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You may like my a cappella music
Until, of course, the TiVo hackers figure out the Filesystem the TiVo uses
And the compression algorithm, and hope that it doesn't require some other piece of on-baord hardware for a dependency. My guess is that there are certain pieces of hardware/chipsets that handle the comporession/decompression, which would make it VERY difficult to view a recording on any box other than the one it was recorded on, or at the very least, on a non-Tivo box. That's probably why Tivo hasn't sent legal letters to any of the public Tivo hacking pages, they're not worried.
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This also means that there are no quality settings on the DirecTivo box: it's always "Best" quality, since the signal is always digital. The recording time is still 35 hours (I'm told). Sounds pretty cool. The downside is that you can't record cable or off-air TV into it as well, since there is no MPEG encoding capability.
Check out Tivo's page on it.
Some facts, some pure guessing. Guesses ain't facts, though, folks.
"quite likely" that ReplayTV will offer an ad-free premium service? Based on what? I can't find a single statement from ReplayTV to support that.
Weaselly? SEC blackout regs are the law, like it or not. Check out recent releases immediately following the blackout ending - especially MyReplayTV, and Release 3.0. Not too weaselly.
'Cancelled' IPO? Nope - postponed. Check out the c|net story 8/21, which points out how bad the market was at that time, how low TiVo's stock was being valued, and the opportunity to make key alliance deals if ReplayTV weren't in registration. (As to the latter, check this morning's wire, Daily Variety, & Hollywood Reporter - not a bad alliance, for a start.)
While we're talking about ReplayTV's business model - you missed that there's no monthly subscription fee, the only 60-hour box on the market now, the only partnership to build cable/DVR combo boxes, and that ReplayTV has the 30-second skip-ahead feature that TiVo chose to forego since it scared the networks (see NY Times 8/13).
All facts.
Advertisement is about making you want a product you either a) did not know that it existed
Yes, and when I see an ad for something that I don't know exists, and then want that product, wouldn't that make it useful?
I've bought more than a couple things from banner ads I've seen here at Slashdot... Mostly stuff from ThinkGeek... I saw the banner ad, basically said, "Hey, I didn't know they had stuff like that. Cool! I want one!" and went over there and bought it.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
With the TiVo, you are able to watch any of your recorded shows while another is recording. I thought this was also possible on the Replay, not true? If not, that's a major negative for Replay.
2. It appears to me that once you select a show to record every occurence of it only cares about the day and time of that show and ignores the title of that show from that point onward. The downside to this is that if the lineup changes you get some crap recorded that you never intended to. Does the TiVo pay more attention to the actual content of what it's recording?
Tivo has a feature called Season Pass where you can select, for example, Sopranos to record on your HBO channel. Anytime the Sopranos airs on that particular HBO channel, it will be recorded. An added feature will prevent the TiVo from recording the same episode twice (HBO typically repeats their shows many times during the week). To continue with my example, the Sopranos is currently not being aired (it's between seasons), but my Season Pass is still there and TiVo will start recording the Sopranos again once they start showing past seasons this fall.
I see all sorts of untargetted ads all day and I don't like them.
I don't want to see ads for products I don't want. I want to see ads for products I _do_ want.
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My Journal
but it it possible to record shows without the use of the service?
Yes,
can I modify a TiVo to record the show using the builtin hardware and drop it to a plain file in mpeg or some other format?
No.
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Unless you add a HUGE hard drive, you can only store so much programming in the box. IMO, it's really intended to let you buffer your TV watching, not as a long-term archival of shows.
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It has the ability to "save to VCR," which (by the sounds of the feature name and A/V connections described) allows you to take a show you've taped and record it on your VCR form the hard drive. Essentially, you can watch the show, and then decide if you want to add it to the permanent collection.
- W. Blaine Dowler
http://www.bureau42.com
Locked drives are a hassle. But, using a new Western Digital diagnostic util you can unlock the drive without doing the cable swap. Hit avsforum for more info. I used it the other night.
This only applies if you are doing a backup of your A. I recommend that, but not everyone does it. If you don't do the backup it's very easy to add space.
As I see it, TiVo has three great features:
It pauses live TV
It time-shifts shows
It gets to know you and chooses shows for you
It's a philosophical difference:
TiVo: Record what you want to watch and watch what you want when you want to watch it and TiVo will provide additional shows that may match your preferences by monitoring your viewing habits.
ReplayTV: Record what you want to watch and watch what you want when you want to watch it and provide the viewer with powerful tools to let the viewer choose what he wants to record and watch.
ReplayTV provides you with very robust searching and filtering functions that to choose the shows you want to watch. You can search by Title, Director, Actors, Descriptions, etc. You can search for all occurances of a show as well. ReplayTV's "Zones" feature provides very robust search and filter functions allowing you to do very extensive "topical" searching. From the search results from any of these functions, you can set up single, recurring, and multiple recordings very easilly.
While TiVo does offer the "Suggestions" feature where an algorithm records programs by trying to match to your preferences based on monitoring your viewing habits, ReplayTV instead gives the viewer powerful tools to choose what he wants to record.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
I think that many participants in this thread are focusing too much on the storage capabilities of the actual appliance. The long term solution to this type of problem is not to increase the size of the Tivo/Show Stopper hard driver.
Rather, the goal should be to link the appliance into a large storage device on your home's LAN. We're migrating to a model where your stereo equivalent, your VCR equivalent, and your PC - equivalent will all share storage on some mucking big hard driver located in the basement somewhere.
Its only a matter of a couple years.
richard
-- He's fantastic, made of plastic....
I know some people are selling pre-upgraded units on Ebay. Just remember, upgrading voids the warranty....
If you buy a normal TiVo it isn't hard. You go grab a bootdisk from www.tivofaq.com/hack. Put the new drive in your system, boot off the linux disk with the modified kernel, and run the BlessTiVo util. That's it. You then put the new drive in the TiVo and plug it in. The TiVo automatically recognizes the new drive and adds the space.
The TiVo only has one tuner, so unless you use some sort of switch box you have to watch what it is recording. This is just a limitation of having one tuner.
Sounds like another Tivo waiting to happen.
:).
The specs are nice, I wouldn't mind having a device based around the same card. But I could seriously do without the Macrovision (stupid A/V laws
However, my big question is, why can't they make this like a VCR? Does your VCR broadcast your information back to anyone? I didn't think so! Well, now that it's a "computer", why does it suddenly have to be networked? Why do I not have faith in some corporate privacy policy?
I, for one, would pay extra up front to not have my information broadcasted back to people. Really.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I've used Tivo since the first version and have to say that after having gotten used to it, I consider it a must-have piece of gear. However something else that I've also found is that it's really only the basic features that you seem to use. The most important factor is the recording capacity. That being said, the real thing that will put one of these boxes in the forefront will be hours per dollar, Ie maxium recording time for minimum price.
The other thing that needs to be addressed is how they fit in with higher-end home theater gear. The problem that ALL units have right now is that they don't have digital audio capapilities, or component outputs. These will become more important as we see more digital cable and DSS HDTV channels, or channels with 5.1 digital sound.
Right now my Tivo is useless when I'm watching a PPV movie on DSS that has digital audio. I can't even stream the video through the Tivo because it has a 3 sec. buffer/delay. So, I have to watch the movie in real-time if I want to enjoy the 5.1 sound.
Other than the lack of hi-def A/V connections the Tivo does everything it needs to do.
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Awww, man, I thought Panasonic had finally invented a device to stop certain shows from remaining on the air. I was envisioning some sort of Star Trek "pain causing" accessory such as a nice belt or perhaps a purse. Or pain cufflinks. That would allow us to send TV execs into writhing Shatneresque pain for foisting such crap shows as Survivor, When Animals Attack III, and well, basically everything on the WB, on us, the viewing audience. I guess I'll just have to continue watching only the Simpsons and Futurama...(sigh).
Actually, it calls a local number, or an 800 number if no local number is available. I've never noticed my unit staying on the phone for more than about 30 minutes, unless it's getting a software update, or it hasn't called out in a few days. The first call usually takes about 2 hours, though.
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You might want to do some research into Replay TV's business model then.
They have plans, among other things, to have banner ads when you press the pause button.
It is also quite likely that they will eventually offer a "premium" service that doesn't have ads.
They are totally not enlightened when it comes to hacking the box. TiVo is down with it as long as people don't try to steal the service.
Don't neglect that they (ReplayTV) hid behind the cloak of the SEC "Blackout Period" for a long time before ultimately cancelling their IPO. They wouldn't even talk about what features were going to be in/out upcoming releases. That's pretty weaselly, IMHO.
Lots and lots of people who have bought the Panasonic boxes returned them. Unlike other manufactureres, Panasonic chose to honor/interperet the Macrovision signal. TiVo and other Replay units pass the signal through but do not "honor" it. This means that the other units will be able to record Macrovision-enabled programs but not copy them. The Panasonic units will not even *record* them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem. However, the Showstopper occasionally misinterperets a weak signal as Macrovision -- efectively stopping the show.
Lastly, don't forget that ReplayTV != TiVo. They have drastically different recording paradigms. Ultimately, you need to make your decision based on operational criteria.
For (a lot) more information, check out the TiVo and Replay TV forums at AVS Forum
--john
I only see a few features this has over the TiVo, and several the TiVo has over this. While this can pause for up to 10 hours, how often does anyone do that? Just record the show. You can adjust the TiVo pause time (requires a little hacking) if you want to.
You don't get the great suggestions list that the TiVo builds up over time for you. This sounds like a gimmick but after a while it really does start to work well.
The initial cost of this unit is higher..but you don't have a monthly fee, assuming you're in an area with a local number.
The TiVo is hackable. You can do some really neat stuff with it beyond adding a lot more space since it runs Linux. Adding space is a big deal. People are easily making 140hour TiVos right now. Mine was upgraded to 87.5 hours with a 45GB drive.
There are some good side by side comparisons of the TiVo and the RePlay units on the net. Check http://www.avsforum.com for some info, I don't have the URLs handy. But the bottom line is that the TiVo always wins. I looked at those pretty heavily before I bought mine, and also compared them at the store.
TiVo also just released the 60 hour and DirecTivo units. The next major release of their software is due out at the end of the year as well.
This card does MPEG 1 OR MPEG 2 compression in real time (processor speed needed)
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e on/index.html
It will allow you to pause live TV as well as timeshifting.
It comes with a TV guide.
It uses standard hard drives.
On pricewatch, it's $270.
The software in the box only works with 98, ME and 2000
http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/pc/aiw_rad
Oooh.. it runs Linux! It has a harddrive!.. these companies are just taking the techie market for a ride and getting rich off of it, much like Digital Convergence. By creating so much controversy about the CueCat, everyone in the tech community is going out to get their barcode scanner to hack and "keep the man down", but they continue to use the original software, giving DC lots of business.
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I am the dot in slashdot.org
The Panasonic ShowStopper is exactly the same as the current ReplayTV models (the 3020 and the 3030), though they've announce a 60-hour unit that isn't shipping yet (using the Maxtor 60G drive; why don't they use the new 80G?).
I have the ReplayTV 2020, which is almost exactly the same as the 3020. The difference is that the newer units will save closed captioning, and the newer units will send out Macrovision signals when the source signal had Macrovision (the 2020 simply strips it out--too bad Amazon finally ran out of them).
Anyway, I can't tell you how wonderful this unit is. As you know, it dials in every night (for maybe 10 minuts) to a local number (you have to pay long distance if there's no local number), and it downloads the TV listings. You then tell it to record specific shows, or you tell it to search, based on title, description, actors, or director. For example, I can tell it to record anything with John Cleese in it. You can also tell it to watch for shows you want to see, even if they aren't currently airing (I've got mine set to record Doctor Who).
So when I go to watch TV, I don't have to channel surf to find something I want--I just watch something it has recorded.
Oh, and it has the 30-second skip button for commercials that TiVo lacks. While this may seem like a minor detail, I've become addicted to it. I essentially don't watch commercials anymore. Sure, I over-skip, but then I use the 8-second instant replay button to go back.
If you watch enough TV to make paying for cable worthwhile, then buying one of these is definitely worthwhile.
I, too, am waiting for on-demand video. I want to be able to select and watch anything ever broadcast. I just hope they set it up so that you have the choice of either having advertising inserted or paying a small fee.
OK, I've been thinking about such devices for a while now (not actually able to buy one yet), and there's a few features I'd like to see. I'm still thinking of "rolling my own" someday, but probably one of these devices will catch up first.
Real time MPEG encoder cards are vastly superior to the first-gen all-in-wonder cards. Added to an 80 GB HD and you've got a lot of recording power.
Does anyone know if these channel lineup databases are public in any way? It would be great to be able to build a system that could query all episodes of "ALF" in your area so that you could cronjob all the recording. Step back for 3 weeks, and you should have a substantial collection. (Substitute ALF for your favorite show. If ALF *is* your favorite show, you need therapy).
TCP/IP connection via 10BaseT is a must, not only for fast download of database info (I don't have a local phone ISP, just @Home) but also to get data OFF the unit for:
1) editing
2) backup
3) online distribution^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmore backup
Without some form of backup, storage of these files is a problem. Your unit would fill up with favorite program you were unwilling to get rid of and unable to transfer on to tape. As for backup? Dat tape? CD-Rom, DVD-Ram? It would be great to be able to generate a disk playable in a DVD player.
Fast editing would be a key feature too. What tools are available to take a half hour program and trim its commercials in about 2-3 minutes of user effort?
Don't get me wrong on the distribution thing. I would personally love to be able to build my own collection of home recorded DVDs of James Burke or Carl Sagan instead of racks of hard to store VHS tapes. Perhaps loan the DVD (physically) to my friends. I'd rather get these things from my cable line than from external sources. Bandwidth limitations gives the TV/cable industry a few years yet before the real sweating begins... (Why have cable when you can download that program and hour after it appears on air?)
Does anyone have a similar setup? Thinking about one? What other features would you want to see on one of these things?
30 hours at *lowest quality* just isn't enough space for someone that wants to use their PTV device to its fullest capabilities. I typically record at Medium quality from my DSS feed, which on a TiVo takes about 33% more space than Basic quality and would take about 50% more space than Basic on ReplayTV. With a 30 hour unit, once you get a few movies saved that you'd like to view down the road and the normal weekly shows saved on the drive, you don't have much space for much else. I purchased a TiVo a little over a month ago mainly because I could easily add a hard drive and get 108 hours of basic quality recording space and over 66 hours at my preferred "Medium" level. I did a lot of research on the differences between TiVo and ReplayTV and found that each has its positives and negatives, and the main difference was that the TiVo is more of an "open source" solution. I'm not a huge TV watcher, normally a few hours in the evening, but I'm very happy with my TiVo. It's allowed me to catch shows (Oz, Sopranos repeats) that I normally can't catch when they air later at night, and its also allowed me to rearrange my TV viewing to fit my schedule. I was also pleasantly surprised that the TiVo Suggestions has caught a few shows and movies that I would've never thought to look for (it automatically recorded Platoon and Apocalypse Now one night). I still haven't gotten into major time-shifting, I still watch most shows the night they first air, but overall I'm very pleased.
Good thing for competition. This one has a feature one better than the Tivo. The 10 hour pause is great. The Tivo only has a 30 minute pause.
Of course the Tivo already let's you do manual time recording. It's not quite what I would like however. (the local TV station here likes to start Friends at 2 minutes before the hour so I'm always missing the first 2 minutes. I'd like to be able to fix that without having to set a manual 6:55 to 7:30 recording)
When will they get all these features all together in one box? Hopefully when they do it will be a software upgrade.
From the photos it looks like the ReplayTV does not have a fan, and hence the heat problem. My TiVo has a fan that runs at a silent "waft" speed, and the software tells me it is 97F inside the box in a 74F room. The device is in a stack of AV equipment.
As I see it, TiVo has three great features:
- It pauses live TV
- It time-shifts shows
- It gets to know you and chooses shows for you
ReplayTV currently only has the first two features. I have not direcly compared but all reports say TiVo's software is easier to use too.I've been reading the specs for the all in wonder radeon and with the bundled software(windows only i think) it looks very functional. Anyone know if I could get by with a Duron and a 5400rpm drive for such a box?
That setup will do fine for everything except recording. Just watching and stuff will be great, but with anything less than a 700mhz machine the recording at decent quality blows frames all over the place.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
You're thinking of the Tivo, which can use an 800 number if no local number is available. With Replay, you must use a local number, even if it costs you long distance charges. They have no 800 type number to use.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
...and in so doing, you dump the current contents of the buffer. Have you actually used a TiVo?
Tip: in 2.0, due out by the end of the year (and already out on the DirecTiVos!), you won't. Hit record in the middle of a show, and it will try to grab as much of that show from the live buffer as it can, and save it all.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
It's not intended for long term storage, but for short term (2 weeks or less, really). The standard method of usage:
a) you set it up to record a show, whenever it comes on.
b) whenever you sit down, it has a bunch of stuff for you to watch.
c) once you've watched the show, you delete it. If you want to save it for a longer period (long term archival), you record it to a more permanent medium, such as VHS tape or something.
It's mainly a way to divorce content from time, to make when a show comes on no longer matter.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
The two LED's on the Tivo are multicolored. The left one is green when the unit is on, and flashes yellow when it picks up remote control inputs. The right one is red when recording, yellow when using the phone, and orange if both are true.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
1. While it's recording, you can only watch the show being recorded.
I think both Replay and Tivo will allow you to watch any recorded program while it's recording something else. I know Tivo will, certainly.
2. It appears to me that once you select a show to record every occurence of it only cares about the day and time of that show and ignores the title of that show from that point onward.
No, both units download guide information, Replay 7 days in advance I think, Tivo 11-12 days in advance. From this Guide info, it finds out when the show is coming on, and records it. Tivo, has functionality to not record the same episode more than once, if it has guide data on what the episode is about. However, sometimes it doesn't have that data, and will record it again, thus giving you a repeat. No big deal, and it doesn't happen nearly as often now that people have griped at Tribune and the networks about providing accurate data. Anyway, it's not just a "channel+time" setup. It's a "Pick the show, let me take of the rest" type of thing, on both units.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
You can call TiVo and opt out of their data collection. People always forget about the opt-out policies most of these companies have. And before someone jumps on me about trusting some company, my company does marketing data collection and believe me, we do EVERYTHING we can to make sure we follow our privacy policy or else we get in real trouble. I expect someone like TiVo to do the same.
If you want more space on a TiVo just add it. It's amazingly easy and takes very little time, unless you back up your original drive. I added a 45GB hard drive to my 30 hour sony and now have an 87.5 hour TiVo.
The Tivo hacking folks have made some great discoveries. Like how to extend that LiveTV Buffer out to an hour or more. Or how to increase your capacity to 100+ hrs of video.
www.tivocommunity.com
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
You can increase the buffer on the TiVo. Check the TiVo Hack faq at http://www.tivofaq.com/hack
It's not REAL simple to do, but if you ever upgrade your TiVo you can do it at the same time.