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Internet C++: Competition For Java And C Sharp?
Justin Goldberg writes: "I saw this article over on Linuxtoday about
Internet C++, a new language that will bring standard languages and APIs, as well as current applications, to the Internet.
Doom has already been ported to Internet C++, as well as X Galaga and Tetris. IDoom (the name of the Doom port) runs pretty jumpy on my machine running X on FreeBSD, but the release is in alpha stage." The reader forums on the site are pretty interesting, too, in discussing whether this is a truly (Free / Open Source) language, and about the extant alternatives.
Yes, you can technically compile any language to Java bytecode, but there are a few problems to deal with:
..., then the stack doesn't blow up. This is really really important for some functional languages.
* a fixed set of types. For instance, Java doesn't use unsigned numbers, so Java bytecode has no support for them.
* no tail recursion - this is a biggie. If I have a function that the last thing to do is to call another function, then if I compile it to machine code, I can arrange to remove the stack frame before making the second call, so that if a the call path is f() -> g() -> f() -> g()
* Java bytecode assumes that the Java model object orientation is used. This is bad for languages that do things in a different way (such as Eiffel with multiple inheritance), or the many functional/logic languages that aren't object oriented.
These can all be worked around, but at a great cost in efficiency.
What is needed is a bytecode that is designed to be source language independent - able to handle the constructs for any source language without making assumptions about it, and be compiled relatively efficiently into any machine language. Java bytecode is not this language.
Tom Goldfunk announced today the release of the brand shiny new Super Duper Does it all, can cut a can in half, and still not make mush out of a tomato, Ginsu ++ language. This new revolutionary language, though completely the same as other languages, touts the unique ability to "Do the same thing all those other languages do, plus some more cool stuff." Of course, backwards compatibility is shaky, so most applications that run fine in C++ will have to be re-written in Ginsu++, but that's not really a problem, is it?
During his press release, Tom stated that "Ginsu++ is going to revolutionize the way we look at computers. A language that is useable across the spectrum of computers has really been lacking in the past millenium. This will change the way programmers work, since they'll now have to learn a new language on top of the ones they already know. And, to make it more intriguing, we've changed the way the language looks to one of those funky top to bottom "MATRIX" style readouts, which breathes new hope into those die hard monochromatic monitor folks in Zimbabwe."
Tim Goldfunk also used the public release of Ginsu++ to tout his company's next project, SuperGinsu+infinity, due out next summer. "That one," Tom promised, "Is going to rock!!"
Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot the Irony tabs...
krystal_blade
It will be easy to motivate our fellow man; there is hardly anything people treasure more than not being annihilated.
As I see it, the big strength of Java is it's huge set of portable libraries. A portable and well designed framework for building GUI's.
The strength of a language (besides the fact that it has to not suck to begin with) is that language's standard lowest-common-denominator libraries.
If you've ever had to build a GUI in C/C++, you know it is not portable. You can write a front-end to your application in several different frameworks -- or try to work with a lowest common denominator framework that runs on your platforms of choice.
Java not only solves this problem, but does it nicely. Pluggable look and feel's. A well designed framework -- better than some of the other frameworks I've used.
But not only a portable GUI toolkit, but portable everything else with it. e.g. Collections/containers/algorithms that aren't the abomination that is STL.
In fact, it seems to me that Java's biggest weakness is execution speed. It has everything else going for it. Type safe. No unhecked runtime errors. RTTI. Garbage collection. Portable object code. And on and on. Given Moore's Law, it seems that Java, or a language like it is destined to become a widely used language.
Can Internet C++ (or C# for that matter) really already have the huge investment that Sun has made in Java? In fact, I find it ironic that Internet C++ and C# seem to be becomming more like Java than Java is like C++.
Or maybe I'm trying to ask, what does it really bring to the table that I don't already have? (Besides being the C++ language which might be useful if I have a huge investment in C++ code.)
The article talks about lots of standard libraries, POSIX, MOTIF, X, etc. This doesn't give me portability. It means I can only run on platforms with those capabilities. (If I read it correctly.) Or do they mean that they are going to bring X, OpenGL, etc. to everywhere. Now that would be cool. And a huge task.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Java has its version of bytecode, C# has its own incompatible version, and now Internet C++ has its version. Each bytecode is tightly coupled to a specific language (or small subset of languages), and ne'er the `twain shall meet.
Why not develop the bytecode specification as the point of compatibility? A feature rich "meta-assembly" with all the basic operations, plus a widget toolkit interface, network interface, etc. Provide a specification to the API in a generic, language NON-specific form and provide a reference implementation in a language of choice (Java, C++, C#, Prolog, whatever). Write a compiler backend for gcc and you get a shirtload of language interfaces in one hit.
Then developers can choose they language they want to develop in, and compile to a binary object format that will run anywhere, and be binary compatible with objects written in any other language!
Provide a JIT compiler to convert bytecode to system code, and you get a system native binary, using system native widgets (finally ending the GTK/QT/Motif/Xt wars).
This would make bytecode a sort of half way house between Java et al (One language, one machine, tell me the path to the binary), and CORBA (Many languages, any machine, I'll find the path to the binary).
Granted, Java (and C#) has given the world a new language which does a better job of object orientation than C++, but they have left the world with yet another language dependency, and a shirtload of code that has to be rewritten in a new language to support the new binary format.
Am I missing some big point here?
Russ Magee
... and never, ever play leapfrog with a unicorn.
According to their own white paper, all these bozos have managed to do is write a 32-bit virtual machine and a version of gcc that targets that virtual machine. Apparently, they've managed to get that virtual machine to run on top of "some" versions of Linux, and "some" versions of BSD, and soon, perhaps, they hope to get it running on top of "some" versions of Solaris.
I imagine this took a heck of a lot of work. Its kind of cool, in a geeky sort of way. But in the big picture of things, Whoop-de-freakin-doo.
The only libraries they claim to have abstracted out are Motif and X-Windows (which I don't recall being particularly system different on Linux and Solaris to start with). Which means that as long as you don't use any of the incompatible system libraries (such as sound, networking, process control, signals, or, umm, anything else), you can write a C++ application with an executable that runs on both Linux and Solaris! (Provided, of course, you have the virtual machine installed.)
It's hard to tell if these guys seriously think this is cool. I think they might be trolling the entire world -- I imagine it must take a few brains to write a new back end for gcc, and I can't imagine anyone smart enough to do that would seriously believe the ability to run the same executable on both Solaris and Linux has any real value any more. If so, they seem to have somehow totally missed where the real value of languages like Java (or Perl, or Python) lie.
Internet C++ shares with Java, Perl, and Python the ability to compile once, and run anywhere (slowly). But so what? If you don't use any libraries, you can already write a C++ program that will compile on Linux and Solaris anyhow. But it totally misses out on the huge portable standard libraries Java, Perl, and Python have developed. And it also totally misses one of the fundemental reasons for C++'s existence in the first place -- the ability to run "close to the metal" when needed.
So, its a new language that combines all the disadvantages of C++ with all the disadvantages of Java, plus all the disadvantages of being a silly little niche language written by a couple of hobbyists in their spare time. I'm certain that James Gosling is shaking in his boots.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
Sad, how I jump at this flamebait but here goes. Your instructor is the kind of clueless academic that makes me realize that the way CS in colleges is taught seriously needs to be overhauled. Before you attempt to question my C++ creds, I will establish that I am currently using C++ to implement the server end of this project. That said, let's go over why you think Java sucks.
Second Law of Blissful Ignorance