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Sweet, Sweet Mathworld Is Gone

Jon Wild writes: "Eric Weisstein's online encyclopedia of mathematics, originally located at http://www.treasure-troves.com among Eric's other encyclopedias, and most recently hosted by Wolfram Research, has for some time been the most complete and reliable mathematical resource on the web. Now Wolfram has yanked it due to a lawsuit by CRC Press, the publishers of a print edition of the encyclopedia. See the announcement at http://mathworld.wolfram.com."

7 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. CRC Press not completely clueless? by Mike+Connell · · Score: 4

    These are the same people that make the "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" - *THE* crypto book (for doing real work) available on the web:

    http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac/

    That's the *whole* book. I know everyone will flame CRC for this, on the assumption that if they do this one thing that looks pretty stupid, they must be entirely clueless, but here is at least one example of them not being the embodyment of evil.

    my 0.02,

    Mike.

  2. Re:who owns what? by ChadN · · Score: 5

    ...he won't get any more royalties from the sale of the current book.

    How so? Does calling for a boycott of your publisher negate their obligation to pay your royalties? Is this something written into these kinds of contracts?

    This reminds me of something. I have a professor who has co-authored a niche book about computational solutions of partial differential equations. The book sells for over $100. He says he gets only a few dollars per book sold, and that it has sold in the low thousands, although it has become canonical for advanced post-graduate study in the field. It was written in TeX, although the publisher had it re-typeset when it was published (since typesetters need to get paid), and thus, MANY errors were introduced.

    Basically, we talked about it in class, and I asked if the monetary compensation was worth all the frustration, or whether he would rather have just published the TeX source on the web, where the errors were fewer, and could be updated. He thought about it and said that, in retrospect, the money wasn't worth it, and that he would have preferred to just publish his correct, up-to-date version. The prestige of publishing an accurate version of such an important work, would likely more than make up for the lost royalty revenue, just in increased consultation fees.

    Something to consider, if you plan to publish a book for a small niche.

    --
    "It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
  3. Eric "owns" it (but not really) by divec · · Score: 4
    The print edition is titled the CRC Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics, which implies that CRC either takes great pride in publishing it or owns significant rights to it.

    Eric sold the rights to the Math treasure trove to CRC, although I'm not sure what the terms were.


    *However*, the treasure trove was built up over many years and largely user-contributed. So it is not clear that Eric had claim to the rights in the first place. It's much like the CDDB case.

    --

    perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'

    1. Re:Eric "owns" it (but not really) by divec · · Score: 4
      Provide a source for your information please.

      Yep, ok. The first part (Eric licensed the rights to CRC) was stated on his website (http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~eww6n/), which used to advertise the book. The second part is clear because his website has (or always used to have) a request for entries to be contributed on those areas of maths which are not yet covered.


      BTW AFAIK CRC always "tolerated" the treasure trove being online, at least in the days when Eric used to randomly block 10 letters of the alphabet (so, e.g. the entries for words beginning with A,G,K,L,N,P,S,T,V,Y would be unaccessable). I guess they've just decided to have a problem with it now that he's (apparently) working for Wolfram.

      --

      perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'

  4. Contributors assigning copyright by cwalkden · · Score: 5
    Firstly, I'm a named contributor in Eric's Treasure Trove (which means I got a freebie copy of the printed version - wheee!). When Eric was first getting involved with CRC press, I remember that he sent me (and the other contributors) a form to sign to transfer copyright. I didn't keep a copy of the form, but I'm almost certain that I assigned copyright over my entries to CRC. Incidentally, Eric told me (and the other contributors) that he would try to negotiate an agreement with CRC by which a web version of the treasure trove could remain on the web - if he hadn't have done this then I would have been unwilling to let my entries be used. Such an agreement between Eric and CRC was reached, because after publication of the printed version, the web version would have certain entries unavailable (on a rotating basis), presumably at the request of CRC.

    Going back to who owns the copyright of the individual entries, a lot of entries on the properties of sequences of integers were submitted by Steven Finch of MathSoft. Steven still maintains a website with this material on, so I wonder if CRC will start chasing him? (Maybe he has a separate agreement with CRC, though - I don't know.)

    Incidentally, some academic journals in mathematics allow for authors to have an electronic version of their papers on their homepages. The AMS is one example, where you will often see in the copyright notice on a paper `copyright retained by author'. A lot of other journals turn a blind eye. (As you might expect, the copyright notice in the CRC Encyclopedia is the standard `it's ours so hands off' one: no reproducing or transmitting in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, etc etc.)

    My own feelings are that the best place for the encyclopedia is on the web. Some of the entries are mathematically wrong, and many are misleading. This is not a criticism of Eric, who obviously put a lot of work into the project, it's just a fact that a book containing so much material will contain many many errors. (See the (often extrmely rude) posts from about 5 years ago on sci.math.research complaining about the lack of mathematical precision in the treasure trove!) Having the treasure trove on the web would and should have allowed the project to grow, both in terms of the accuracy and the number of the entries. Sadly, the only way that such errors could be corrected in the printed version would be for CRC to issue a second edition - something I would imagine Eric is now unlikely to want to get involved in...

  5. Time to start harvesting the Google Cache? by crisco · · Score: 5
    The fun starts here!

    Particularly troubling is the fact that at least some of the content was contributed by people who most likely intended it to be online where others could get great benefit from their work. Did they give away ownership by contributing?

    And finally, where can we direct our well written statements of objection to this action by CRC?

    --

    Bleh!

  6. Re:Never transfer your copyright by MattW · · Score: 4

    Copyright depends, usually, on the medium your work is published in and your history as a writer. For example, most (not all) magazines buy first north american serial rights, giving them the right to print your article in magazines distributed in north america, but you can still sell second/third/etc rights for printing elsewhere. You can sell international rights, movie rights, and so forth. Some publishers insist on all rights. In fact, I once wrote an article on VPNs for Auerbach's data security journal, which I believe is/was a division of CRC press, and their terms were all rights, so it wouldn't surprise me if the whole conglomerate thought that way.