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Linux to Fragment?
King_B writes "news.com has an article in which Sun's COO Ed Zander addresses the competition. One point to note is his prophecy concerning the eventual fragmentation of linux into non-compatible vendor-specific linuces. " Doesn't really say anything new, but nothing else seems to be happening today *grin*. People have been preaching about fragmenting Linux for years but it hasn't happened. And even if it did, I somehow doubt it would matter all that much. But it still gives COOs something to talk about I guess.
What he's saying here is that if you want your software to run on Solaris you only have to compile and test it for Solaris, while with Linux you have to do this for several distros. There's one teeny eensy detail he left out: Solaris is only one "fragment" of Unix. To get your software going on AIX, HP-UX, Ultrix, and SCO Unices you have to guess what: get it to compile and then test!
Then there's other issues he's conveniently left out. Getting software to run on different Linux distros is a lot easier than doing the same thing for Unix variants simply because the amount of variation between Linux distros is much smaller than Unix variants. Different Linuces have the same kernel and C library while Unices don't, among other things.
He's grumbling about the fragmentation of Linux while claiming that his own fragment of Unix is the one that will solve all your software compatibility problems. It should be obvious that if you only use one variant of Unix then you don't have to deal with any other variants. DUH!
It's the same old marketese that Micro$oft is always saying: use our stuff and all your problems will go away. You'll be able to retire at 15 to a deserted desert isle where bodacious babes will attend to your every need and want. It's also amusing to hear someone from Sun grumbling about Linux fragmentation while at the same time holding up their own fragment of Unix as the solution to the fragmentation problem!
An expectation is a requirement to use a certain library, or programming methodology to get the job done. If I am contemplating creating an open source application, what am I required to know to run under OpenBSD? FreeBSD? GNOME? KDE? Self contained environments such as LispWorks?
Two 'Operating System' are sufficiently different/fragmented if there are sufficiently different expectations and requirements to make a running applications under them. If it requires a full time job to resolve the differences, then they are fragmented as far as I am concerned.
On the other hand, with the vast number of programmers willing to tweak my brilliant program :-) to run on their favorite *nix variant, perhaps the differences aren't so great in terms of cost after all. So this is really subjective, and I do realize this.
Thus, what is 'sufficient' is deliberately left vague. Or perhaps we can define a metric - the distance between two operating systems is the amount of work required to get a program running identically on both OSes.
The verification of the Triangle Inequality is left as an exercise for the reader.
I would be the first to admit there are some problems with the above way of thinking, but as with many questions involving language, they will never really be resolved satisfactorily.
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You were a moderator with 5 points. You should have read the moderator guidelines before you did any moderating
I think that today they are more compatible than two years ago. However if you look at any two distributions it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that they are binary none compatible. Differnet libraries exist in each distro. Each program can be compiled against different version of the libraries with different parameters adn settings (configure --what options you pick). That is why Linux is Open Source and you get the source. You then compile the program yourself. This then becomes a none issue. So what? So I cannot take a binary from SuSE and install in Redhat. I can still build the rpm myself or get the tar ball. It's not that difficult.
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
How is this not true? RedHat decides to take a certain version of the kernel, KDE, a peculiar flavor of gcc, and some other stuff, RedHat-ize it, and make a distribution out of it. Debian chooses another version of the kernel, Gnome, uses apt-get, and has a different distribution. Mandrake throws in some nice Mandrakish features. Others yet, take whatever other pieces they want and create a customized flavor of "Linux" (ok, perhaps not a customized codebase). We champion this as serving different needs. But isn't it still true that the same process has the potential for many conflicts? File system formats, hierarchy standards (file system standard and LSB notwithstanding), versions of applications, system policies, configuration tools, init scripts, custom scripts, etc. For all intents and purposes, Linux, as seen by the consumer, is fragmented. I think there should be a strong cohesive force to keep Linux, as the gestalt system, not just kernel, on track. Maybe LSB is it. Maybe not.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Hey, Ed Zander lived through the BSD/Bell religious schism, the fragmentation of the vendor Unixes and the Unix International -vs- OSF standards wars. Of course he's going to worry about fragmentation: his career's been spent fighting it. That said, I think he's wrong: the older members of the Linux community also remember those years, and will "educate" the community. With a large hammer, if necessary (:-))
davecb@spamcop.net
If you're referring to Linux as the whole OS with all the good little tools, applications, etc., then it has already fragmented.
I've been using Red Hat Linux for quite a while now, and I could comfortably work in most any version of the distribution. But plop me on a Caldera machine and I start to get lost quickly. Debian uses yet another file structure and configuration scheme. I haven't even used Slackware since the days of downloading 40+ floppies, but I know they've got their own standards. And don't forget the other distributions: Mandrake, StormLinux, Corel, etc, etc. Although many of them are just modifications of other distros.
I think this will just get worse over time. Right now, it doesn't take too much time to learn how a new distro is put together. But, with the addition of all these graphical configuration tools (linuxconf, yast, etc) that are very particular to each distro, it won't be too long before you're spending an hour just to figure out to tell sshd to not allow root logins.
...big, bad Sun has said that Linux is going to fragment!!! Well, since Sun said it, it must be true... after all, they *are* the dot in dot com.
*snicker*
This is one of the great scare tactics used by both Microsoft and Sun to get the PHBs to avoid Linux. Linux has not fragmented, and probably won't for a long, long time, if ever. Too many of the key players (Red Hat, Caldera, Mandrake, Turbolinux, et al) have too much in stake with Linux to allow it to fragment into incompatable operating systems. I think it is more likely that Microsoft will give up on their appeal than for this to happen... hehe
wolf31o2 Developer, Gentoo Linux Games Team
IMMINENT DEATH OF USENET!!! (these caps are important for the sake of the joke, it's a quote. stick this in your filter.)
umm...that's controlled, market-driven, half-ass backward-compatibility, forward-API-breaking-so-you-can-get-an-edge-on-you r-vendors-to-eventually-grab-their-business fragmentation to you.
What they seem to forget is that Open Source projects like Linux excell at bringing out standards. Further more, it is standards that allow the highly compatible environments (like the Internet) that we all enjoy working in. Linux developers have always tried to bring Linux in line with standards and have contributed to creating new standards. Most of what we use, HTTP, FTP, SMTP, POP3 haven't been developed by the closed source developers like Microsoft and Sun. Rather they have been hacked out by a group of distributed people working openly to produce something that is not fragmented. In contrast, it is peole like Microsoft that always try to do things against the standards and hence fragment themselves from the rest. (Front page server extensions as an example).
It therefore seems absurd to even talk about Linux fragmenting. In reality they should talk more about Linux providing a solution that will work on many different architectures and providing high interoperability with other Operating Systems like Windows and Mac (through SAMBA, Appletalk, etc) let alone other Unices. Let alone other Linux distributions!!
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'