Posted by
Hemos
on from the put-the-test-tube-here dept.
swestcott writes "This is a very interesting article in the Washington Post today about an experiment on the Viking mission to Mars apparently found life on Mars - or not."
Not as crackpot as it sounds
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4
What is interesting about this is that before the probes were sent to Mars, they realized the importance of the experiments for life. So the NASA scientists in charge of experiments made a very explicit protocol to anylize the results of the experiments by -- what exactly would be a positive or negative result, and what to do if the experiments were mixed in the results.
This was done so that the results could be viewed objectively based on the science and not reinterpreted for the sake of anyone's theroy of whether life was there or not.
Strangely enough, the results came back and Levin's was positive by every standard established before the mission left earth. The second test was negative. The third test (which was supposed to be a "tiebreaker") was inconclusive.
The result? NASA changed the standard for Levin's test, declared that it was inconclusive, and that therefore there was no life on Mars.
It was purely coincidental that many involved in that decision were geologists who felt slighted that their experiments were not flown -- they thought that if there were no life on Mars, they would be able to get all the experiment space on future missions because people would stop sending biological experiments.
Of course, that was wrong -- we stopped sending ALL experiments because nobody cares on a gut level about geology, we care about life.
But the greatest crime is that they lied about the results -- it was 100% POSITIVE for life based on the criterea set before the missions were launched.
But NASA really doesn't like us to talk about this stuff -- that we found good, strong evidence of some biological activity taking place and walked away.
More on the new experiment
by
snookums
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· Score: 4
I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess at the nature of the new experiment being proposed.
If you read the description of Gil Levin's other work, you will see that he is the man responsible for discovering a magic indigestible sugar (tagatose). This sugar is indigestible because it is the mirror image of normal sugar (or certain interesting parts of it are). The enzymes that digest sugar are asymmetric and won't fit together with the tagatose properly. This asymmetry is a fundamental property of life.
If the agent in the soil which produces the carbon-dioxide reacts with one nutrient, but not it's mirror-image, then the agent must be asymmetric. There is no known natrual, non-biological process on Earth that can produce an asymmetric molecule.
If this experiment provides a positive result, it will not prove the existence of life, but it is a very strong indicator. Even if there is no life, the discovery of a naturally-occuring, non-biological process for producing these molecules will have a huge impact on the pharmaceutical industry.
-- Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.
There is life on Mars, and I've got proof
by
Flounder
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· Score: 4
They spoke in front of the Supreme Court today.
--
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Another interesting Viking mission note
by
ethereal
·
· Score: 5
According to Carl Sagan's Cosmos, when the three tests that were sent to Mars were also tested in Antarctica (a much more hospitable environment than Mars), one of the tests that indicated there was no life on Mars, also indicated there was no life in Antarctica! Coupled with Levin's positive results, the prospects for native life on Mars may be much better than expected.
They need to do a recount! By hand this time and not a mechanical probe hand either!:)
It is very obvious that we should have lawyers on Mars so for this sort of thing... Who needs scientists when lawyers can make decisons for us!
I agree 100% which is why I call for the next Mars probe to be outfitted with a Lawyer Landing System (LLS). This is very similar to the system used to successfully allow the Mars Prospector to land, except replacing the airbag with lawyers. Since Lawyers are 99% hot air, and a naturally produced product of California and New York, we should be able to condense them into a small enough space by placing them into sensory deprevation tanks. Once they near the point of deployment, a micro-cassette of the closing arguments in the Gore vs. Bush campaign can be played, there-by causing the lawyers to emit hot air and inflate, protecting the payload from harm during the inevitable rough landing. Those lawyers that survive the landing will then be on hand to arrange themselves to properly argue the case of whether or not there is life on Mars (while those of us back on Earth will be assured that even if there is life, there is certainly no intelligent life).
-- This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
The Washington Post left out a key element of Levin's experiment and why he wants to do it again. The Viking landers used dextrose, the stuff we and most other lifeforms consume, as bait for possible Mars beasties. He wants to rerun it with dextrose in one chamber and sinstrose in the other. If one and not the other is consumed it's a strong indicator of life since the chemistry of life (as we know it) prefers organics with a specific orientation. If both are consumed, then it indicates weird chemistry, probably inorganic.
This is a very interesting article in the Washington Post today about an experiment on the Viking mission to Mars apparently found life on Mars - or not."
Apparently there are a number of uncounted results that have yet to be tabulated. The machine outputted the data from Viking onto punchcards, and the debate is about the status of those cards that were not entirely punched (ie. contained "hanging chad"). "I wish they would either decide that Mars contains life or not" one pedestrian comentated, "I just want to get back to my normal life and this question has been hanging over our heads for far too long already!"
-- This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Slashdot Mirror
What is interesting about this is that before the probes were sent to Mars, they realized the importance of the experiments for life. So the NASA scientists in charge of experiments made a very explicit protocol to anylize the results of the experiments by -- what exactly would be a positive or negative result, and what to do if the experiments were mixed in the results.
This was done so that the results could be viewed objectively based on the science and not reinterpreted for the sake of anyone's theroy of whether life was there or not.
Strangely enough, the results came back and Levin's was positive by every standard established before the mission left earth. The second test was negative. The third test (which was supposed to be a "tiebreaker") was inconclusive.
The result? NASA changed the standard for Levin's test, declared that it was inconclusive, and that therefore there was no life on Mars.
It was purely coincidental that many involved in that decision were geologists who felt slighted that their experiments were not flown -- they thought that if there were no life on Mars, they would be able to get all the experiment space on future missions because people would stop sending biological experiments.
Of course, that was wrong -- we stopped sending ALL experiments because nobody cares on a gut level about geology, we care about life.
But the greatest crime is that they lied about the results -- it was 100% POSITIVE for life based on the criterea set before the missions were launched.
But NASA really doesn't like us to talk about this stuff -- that we found good, strong evidence of some biological activity taking place and walked away.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess at the nature of the new experiment being proposed.
If you read the description of Gil Levin's other work, you will see that he is the man responsible for discovering a magic indigestible sugar (tagatose). This sugar is indigestible because it is the mirror image of normal sugar (or certain interesting parts of it are). The enzymes that digest sugar are asymmetric and won't fit together with the tagatose properly. This asymmetry is a fundamental property of life.
If the agent in the soil which produces the carbon-dioxide reacts with one nutrient, but not it's mirror-image, then the agent must be asymmetric. There is no known natrual, non-biological process on Earth that can produce an asymmetric molecule.
If this experiment provides a positive result, it will not prove the existence of life, but it is a very strong indicator. Even if there is no life, the discovery of a naturally-occuring, non-biological process for producing these molecules will have a huge impact on the pharmaceutical industry.
Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.
They spoke in front of the Supreme Court today.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
According to Carl Sagan's Cosmos, when the three tests that were sent to Mars were also tested in Antarctica (a much more hospitable environment than Mars), one of the tests that indicated there was no life on Mars, also indicated there was no life in Antarctica! Coupled with Levin's positive results, the prospects for native life on Mars may be much better than expected.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
They need to do a recount! By hand this time and not a mechanical probe hand either! :)
It is very obvious that we should have lawyers on Mars so for this sort of thing... Who needs scientists when lawyers can make decisons for us!
I agree 100% which is why I call for the next Mars probe to be outfitted with a Lawyer Landing System (LLS). This is very similar to the system used to successfully allow the Mars Prospector to land, except replacing the airbag with lawyers. Since Lawyers are 99% hot air, and a naturally produced product of California and New York, we should be able to condense them into a small enough space by placing them into sensory deprevation tanks. Once they near the point of deployment, a micro-cassette of the closing arguments in the Gore vs. Bush campaign can be played, there-by causing the lawyers to emit hot air and inflate, protecting the payload from harm during the inevitable rough landing. Those lawyers that survive the landing will then be on hand to arrange themselves to properly argue the case of whether or not there is life on Mars (while those of us back on Earth will be assured that even if there is life, there is certainly no intelligent life).
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
The Washington Post left out a key element of Levin's experiment and why he wants to do it again. The Viking landers used dextrose, the stuff we and most other lifeforms consume, as bait for possible Mars beasties. He wants to rerun it with dextrose in one chamber and sinstrose in the other. If one and not the other is consumed it's a strong indicator of life since the chemistry of life (as we know it) prefers organics with a specific orientation. If both are consumed, then it indicates weird chemistry, probably inorganic.
This is a very interesting article in the Washington Post today about an experiment on the Viking mission to Mars apparently found life on Mars - or not."
Apparently there are a number of uncounted results that have yet to be tabulated. The machine outputted the data from Viking onto punchcards, and the debate is about the status of those cards that were not entirely punched (ie. contained "hanging chad"). "I wish they would either decide that Mars contains life or not" one pedestrian comentated, "I just want to get back to my normal life and this question has been hanging over our heads for far too long already!"
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.