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Themes Removed At Apple's Behest
A couple of people wrote in noting that Themes.org has had to comply with a request from Apple that they remove the following themes: Aqua, AquaX, eMac, and eMac-GTK.
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let me say once again. it's the logo.
if you build a theme with the OS X widgets or even one that looks exactly like platinum, nobody can complain, because, after all, Apple already lost that battle in the '80s. it's pixels. look and feel or not, it can be copied. bla bla woof woof. there are dozens of mac-like themes that do exactly this, a lot more than the 4 or so that were pulled.
but, once you use the apple logo, a copyrighted, trademarked, protected-by-pitbulls-and-lawyers piece of Apple, you have stepped over your 'fair use' or 'parody' (or whatever) boundary.
microsoft could do the same thing, but it seems they have bigger legal fish to fry, and couldn't care less if you copied their logo, let alone user experience (sic).
Apple is completely within their rights here, once again, and is doing what is legally required of a trademark holder in defending their trademark. considering it's one of the world's best recognized brands - in some surveys even moreso than Nike's - it only makes sense that they defend it more emphatically than most companies. granted, a little more effort than having one of their freshman lawyers send out a C&D letter could smooth things over considerably, but all those here (and on themes.org) crying foul over the Big Guy bullying the Poor Little Open Source movement could be a little more mature and sympathetic as well.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Someone pointed out in a reply to another post I made in this section that the names of the themes being removed are all Apple trademarks.
Then I realized that OSX2, another Aqua-like theme, wasn't listed in the removed themes.
Go to the global theme search page and look for "Aqua". There are a heck of a lot of Aqua themes for various window/desktop managers.
So was it the names of the themes Apple objected to? Why is Apple being selective with their removal requests? Are they just not aware of the other Aqua-like themes still available, or is it something else? And I ask again; why isn't Apple trying to contact the theme creators?
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
,i>I use Secret Recipe #1 for my lemonade. Jim Bob analyzes the chemical structure, duplicates it, calls it Secret Recipe #2, and starts marketing it under that name. Should I have the right to sue him for stealing my intellectual property?
Well, if he pattented his lemonade, actually yes. That's called reverse engineering. If he can prove that you performed tests on his lemonade prior to your procuring "Secret Recipe #2", he can and should sue you. If he doesn't have a pattent, and it is a trade secret, then you have decided that your lemonade is so superior to anyone else that even after your pattent runs out no one will successfully duplicate a glass of lemonade equal in quality that pattenting it will only hurt you. If someone develops the same "lemonade technology" then, unfortunately for you, more power to them.
Jim Bob comes over to my stand one day and starts talking with my customers, trying to get them to come over to his stand and try his own Secret Recipe. Should I have the right to sue him for manipulating my customers?
Well, if you own the property you have the right to have him removed for trespassing, soliciting your customers (as long as it is posted), and potential harrassment if he fails to leave when you ask him. Immediately off of your property, he can do whatever he wants. This is why there are so many people standing on the other side of the street from an abortion clinic protesting abortion normally, and not in the front lobby.
--
You say you want a revolution?
Apple has always been protective of what they deem to be their designs, their 'look and feel'. Remember the long running lawsuit against MS for Windows being derived from Mac OS? They've brought litigation against groups that sought to use a logo like their multi-colored apple, iMac-styled cases, etc...
What I find interesting is that, to my recollection, there were never any such issues with NeXT, given how it is often Jobs who drives the designs. There were a number of 'NeXT-like' themes back when NeXT existed, and nary a peep from NeXT about them.
If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
I can understand that its annoying to have ideas that you've payed for (i.e. paying for interface designers, ergonomic engineers and so on) and having people steal them. It seems that there will be more harm than good to come out of this though. Apple doesn't need any more animosity than it already has.
On the other hand notice that themes.org hasn't bothered to respond to requests for information on why the themes needed to be removed. Were there some simple demands (Don't use the Apple logo, its a trademark, don't use the term Mac in your themes, its a trademark as well) that they refused to comply with?
Unfortunately Apple generates its own FUD. Since themes.org won't elaborate I would reason that either a) there was a stipulation that they couldn't post the text of the letter b) themes.org is trying to hide something. By not having an official press release from Apple they've allowed the apple bashers to generate all the propoganda.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
...the logo is nowhere to be found in any of the Aqua-like GTK themes!
How do I know? I'm using one of them right now, and I have the other installed.
Now, it might have been in one of the E or Sawfish themes, but I can confidently say it wasn't in any of the GTK ones. In fact, I don't think anyone would have included the Apple logo after the first Aqua theme was removed for that very reason, and removed again at Apple's request even after the logo was removed.
As for the "They spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars..." argument...please. Aqua is NeXT with curvy, bubble-like widgets, at least on the surface. They certainly don't provide any functionality improvements that Aqua gives (does it give any?)
If the logo isn't in any of these themes, Apple barely has a leg to stand on, unless they want to copyright curvy, shiny widgets. I wonder if they've sent similar letters to the theme authors. Is creating a theme enough to whiff off Apple, or do you actually have to offer it for download before they'll launch attack lawyers?
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
This is actually untrue. The Xerox Star didn't have overlapping windows; they couldn't figure out how. When Andy Hertzfeld took the tour of PARC, he assumed that they _did_ have overlapping windows, wondered how they did it, and created QuickDraw (and got Apple quite a few patents).
When he told the PARC people that he figured out how to do overlapping windows, they were stunned, since they thought it impossible on the hardware available at the time.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
To take an example from the physical world. When Japanese companies started making motorcycles that looked and sounded like Harley-Davidson bikes, H-D tried to file a patent on the sound and sue. The final outcome? You can't protect the look or sound of a motorcycle.
Why should look and feel of software be any different?
First of all, what rights are you refering to? The right to use copyrighted material for your own cause, without permission from the owner of the copyright? Oh yeah, I forgot about that right. Regardless of the money factor, Apple does have a right to things that originated from them. I don't care if it aligns them with open source or not - the fact remains, you don't (nor does anyone else) have a RIGHT to their material. If they decide to let you use it/have it, that is ther prerogative, but for the time being, they are not letting that happen.
You also have to understand this fact: Apple is a BUSINESS. Last time I checked, businesses were in the business (ha ha, pun!) of making money. Sure, a side effect of that may be that the consumer is elated, but it is by no means a requirement of the company to please every person on the earth - or give away their material. Sure, it would be nice, but they don't have to, and you (or anyone else) certianly do not have a RIGHT to anything of that nature.
Silent encroachments of those in power and sudden usurpations? What a joke. They just don't want people to steal their thunder, and rightly so. Most people don't.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
On /. "A couple people wrote in noting that Themes.org has had to comply with a request from Apple "
On themes.org "We have reviewed the letter and decided to accommodate Apple's request"
Subtle difference.....
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
The news item says nowhere they 'had to comply', it says they read Apple's request, and decided to comply.
No court decisions, nothing like that. They simply chose to honor Apple's request, which may seem somewhat valid, though we all would probably say 'it's a theme! it's like, parody, or homage, to apple, not 'stealing''. Still....
As many persons have already pointed out, there's quite rich pile of case law (M$ vs. Apple, Lotus vs. Borland etc.), which makes it clear that copyright doesn't protect UI. Of course, any single element of UI can be protected, but as far as there isn't any direct copying you are in the clear water. To rephrese this, you can't protect idea (in this case look&feel) with copyright.
What comes to user perspective, at least most of legal literature from law&economics tend to think, that the benefits from not to give protection to UI clearly overrides the negative impact in UI-investments. So, you can make money with good UI but you are not going to get a monopoly from the government to support it...
Ville
My DeCSS archive:
Not at all the right decision.
For years and years the FSF (GNU) boycotted Apple (note they never boycotted Microsoft) exactly because of this despicable claim that they own the look and feel of a GUI. You can say much about Microsoft, but they never did anything like that.
Apple, who copied the GUI themselves, for years sued others e.g. for using a trashcan, or even for using a WIMP GUI at all!
Now it seems to start all over again.
Time for a new GNU boycott? That might hit Darwin hard, and thus indirectly Apple and their OS-X. Would be well deserved.
Apple lost a law suit that contended that all GUI's with certain functional characteristics were proprietary. Most of the other GUI lawsuits were based on similar claims.
However, the similarity of Aqua themes to Aqua is MUCH greater than the similarity of Mac OS to Windows.
Do your homework. You are looking for case law dealing with trade dress infringement.