Graduate CS Program For Non-CS Undergrads?

An Anonymous Coward asks: "Graduate CS program for non-CS undergrads? I have a social sciences degree from a respected university, with a moderate amount of math. I have realized that much of the most exciting/important thinking and research these days is in CS, and I am trying to get the foundations and understanding I need to think about these problems well. I have never taken a CS class, so I am looking for a grad school or program that will take such a student, crash-course the prereqs, etc. Any thoughts on how to accomplish this? I have seen what Ars Digita is doing but hesitate to go with an unaccredited program."

Comments

Have you had any CS-related learning?

[Cyclopatra]

I mean to say, do you know a programming language or two, have you ever done any coding on your own, or otherwise been exposed to some facet of CS? If not, you may want to take a few community college courses first, and see if you even *like* the stuff, because even the most theoretical CS program is going to require coding.

That said, The University of Hawaii's MSCS is open to non-CS bacchalaureates with a working knowledge of C or Pascal, provided you make up your undergraduate deficiencies (to the tune of about 18-24 credits, IIRC). But I'd definitely find out if I had a inclination towards CS before I jumped into an MS program, if I were you (if, of course, you haven't).

Re:Have you had any CS-related learning?

[blahtree]

Well, coming from UBC, you should know that you can do the same thing in beautiful Vancouver, Canada at UBC. If you have had previous background in math/stats, you can pick up the undergrad pre-reqs in a measly 6 courses...one term if you have your mind set on it, 2 if you're not so crazy. Although the undergrad program suffers from an enrollment glut without the corresponding increase in funding, the graduate program is much better, AFAIK.

I hope your luck is better than mine

[scotpurl]

I looked at several MS programs, and they all wanted me to go back and get a BS in CS -- in terms of coursework, not in terms of actual degress. The advisors would hold up the list of courses that CS undergrads would have to take, then cross out anything that wasn't taught by either the CS department, or one of the engineering departments.

I know in their prejudice that they looked no further than my degree in Geography. The two years of calculus and the year of statistics was overlooked. The 3 semesters of programming was overlooked. The logic class was overlooked. The year of physics was ignored. The fact that I was working as a systems administrator at the time (third year of the job) was ignored. I knew Pascal, C, and VB, and had to play with perl, sed, and awk on a daily basis (and several obtuse macro langauges dealing with GIS). Throw in teaching myself a helluva lot. (Having a great boss is why. He'd give me a manual and say, "We need to do X, figure out how to do it, explain it to me, then do it.")

Anyway, you'll run into lots of bias because you're not one of the little CS elves from the beginning. I gave up on a MS in CS, but that doesn't mean I'm recommending it. My life stabilized (got married), we moved, and I'm now well paid. I want to rid myself of the bad programming habits I have, but fitting in classes around a 50 hour work week plus 10 hours of commuting leaves little school time.

Go for it while you have time. Some of us work because we get paid, and some of us work because we aspire to be craftsmen, hewing form and function from raw ones and zeros. Craftsmen tend to live happier lives, because work is actually fun.

Re:Why do you want a degree?

[drix]

In don't think that that is correct at all in this context. You can probably get a job coding without having a degree, but depending on what you're definition of "coding" is it may or may not be what you're looking for. Coding projects that interest me certainly do seem to require a lot of formal training in CS, or at least applied math. While it is entirely possible, if you have enough job experience or can demonstrate your familiarity with a language, to go pick up some job for Acme, Inc. cranking out Java apps or maintaining some software package, most people who are actually interested in computer science itself find such jobs rather mundane. One thing you will not be doing, if you go this route, is reasearch. The poster explicitly stated that he wanted to go back to school because "most exciting/important thinking and research these days is in CS", so I think we're of the same mindset. I defy you to find someone who, unless they posses an extraordinary amount of intelligence, was able to land a job researching interesting things in the world of computer science without some sort of math, CS, or EE degree.

Think About Software Engineering

[yoshi]

You might want to consider the field of software engineering. I did my undergrad in English and History, and fairly easily got into a good SE program. I went through a similar process, and found that it was well nigh impossible to get an actual CS degree without taking a large number of fairly easy classes (data structures!).

Basically, the coursework focuses on working in the software world, and is not as theory-driven as an MSCS, but in practice you get to do a lot of fun stuff. I just finished a class in distributed databases (as in building them), and next semester I have a course in info retrieval. If you want to eventually be an academic, then this probably wouldn't be the program for you (although there are PhD's in this). There are AI classes and all that, too.

Check out the nearest big state university (I'm sorry, gonna assume you are in the US) and see if they have either an MS in software engineering, a Master of Software Engineering, or a Master of Software Systems. The admission requirements aren't lax, but if you did well in undergrad, have good references, decent GRE scores, and you work in the field, you'll probably get into the program.

One warning - they will run you through a few courses (survey of software engineering, project management, SQA, and maybe even a programming course) that can be very boring but incredibly useful if you are going into business software development.

If you are interested in more detail, feel free to contact me.

how it works

[dwallach]

I'm an assistant professor at Rice University (Houston, Texas) in the department of computer science. I can't speak for other universities, but here's what we do.

Rice currently offers a professional "MCS" degree that requires its students to take 30 credits of courses (most CS classes offer 3-4 credits). For students with non-CS backgrounds, we generally try to figure out "what are the holes in this student's background" and we generally assign such students additional coursework to fill in their education. These additional courses don't count toward the degree. Admissions are competitive. You need to take the GRE (the CS subject test is optional), and you need to also send us three letters of recommendation.

Rice also offers a joint MCS/MBA degree, which draws from the business school and the department of computer science, and we have some other specialized masters programs "in the works."

Note: the MCS and MCS/MBA programs cost money, just like being an undergraduate. There is also an MS/PhD program where we pay you ("a stipend"). Rather than just taking classes, however, you're expected to do real research; it's years of work.

For all of these programs, we do have a number of students admitted from non-CS backgrounds. Of course, it's incumbent on the applicant to demonstrate why they have what it takes to succeed in the program.

Anyway, lots more details are online. Good luck to you, wherever you end up going.

http://www.cs.rice.edu/Applications/

BS in CS is sometimes MS in CS

[kevlar]

Namely because there are a lot of univs that don't require you to have a CS bachelors.

The difference between the two is that for an MS you have 2 years of training, while a BS you have 4. I've seen a couple people get turned down who have an MS because they sucked relative to someone who had a BS.

So remember this when you're applying for a job... lots of companies think diddly of an MS in CS.

I should have stated my case better. :-)

[scotpurl]

My main complaint was not that the CS programs wanted me to take additional classes. I agree with that. I _should_ have to.

Something like, oh, 4-8 classes (12-24 credits) should take care of any weaknesses. The programs I checked with all wanted 60-80 credits before I could even start my MS. I was not given credit for any classes, including the C classes I took from a CS department. Since I had not a BS in CS, they wanted me to start from zero.

I think that's excessive.