Glasscode Released

An interesting article about a web-based discussion system we've mentioned before: nebby writes "A while back Slashdot ran an article which pointed to a k5 submission by myself which discussed ideas about a proposal I had for a new moderation system. Half-empty is an online community with an open submission queue I've been building over the past year which implements this moderation system, among other things, and has been growing steadily with interesting posts and discussion about topics such as government, poetry, stories, and technology. Well, I'm proud to announce that the engine that drives Half-empty, Glasscode, is now available for download. It has advanced features such as distributed skins, category filtering and permissions, and the said global moderation system. Hit the link for how this all came to be, and what I'm hoping for the future."

BBSes, Half-Empty, Glasscode, and my sanity.

Just a bit more than a year ago, me and my good friend Isaac Oates (author of the Eternity BBS software from long ago) sat down and decided to create a website. We were missing the days of BBS yore, where discussion flowed with intellectual posts about all kinds of topics, trolls were sparse, and flames were hearty. We wanted it back. The root of all evil seen in online posting today, Isaac and I decided, was that people were not caring what all of their peers thought of them, and were not in anyway motivated to think through their posts. We also saw alot of the current weblogs out there restricted in what could be posted, and by whom. They were also confusing to the newbie (granted, half-empty is overwhelming right now), and we wanted anyone and everyone with a Internet connection to be able to stop sucking information out and start dumping some back in.

We wanted to create an online community (the kind that Katz has recently been raving about) that would have no limits on discussion and would by its nature make people want to get involved. It would allow the users to get an ongoing rush of content, or eliminate the content down to just being about, say, Birds. It would let the users know what other people thought of them. It would allow for the obvious identification and silencing of blatant trolls. It would be fun to use, and would be addictive.

We started chipping away last January, at the turn of the millenium. Unfortunately, Isaac was sucked away into the depths of UIUC, unable to continue the project. Fortunate or not for myself, this was a project stuck in my head and would not leave me alone until it was finished.. I'm sure most of you can relate. I became addicted to it, adding piece after piece, rethinking the architecture and rating/point system over and over again.. making myself a self-proclaimed psychologist of my users-to-be. "Should points be a reward, or a punishment?" .. "Will they rate stuff down they disagree with?" .. "How much of a focus should be on points, and how much on content?"

I spent most of my second semester freshman year at Cornell (when not doing homework or intoxicating myself) coding this beast. I rebuilt it from the ground up several times, and knew the source code much better than my Chemistry book (and boy, do my grades show this fact..) Summer came and went, and every night after seeing friends I would return home and sit in front of the screen hacking and tweaking away. I saved some cash and got it running on a overclocked Celeron off of e-bay. Half-empty had only one user, one voice, but this would all change soon enough.

I forget the exact day in September, probably the day after we got our cable modem, when I proclaimed to my housemates that we were going to test roadrunner's bandwidth and see what would happen. Knowing that I couldn't afford a real connection, my plan was to open the site, get a gigantic flood of users somehow, and pray that one of them sees what I'm trying to do and decides to help me out. I plugged it in, started it up, set up the DNS, and half-empty.org became live.

Now I needed some users.. I decided the most complicated part of the system (and the most discussable) was the moderation system, which still wasn't perfected. I wanted feedback about both the setup I was doing and the site itself, so I posted a kuro5hin article announcing the site and briefly mentioning the system. I had a steady stream of people checking it out then, the server was stable, and I was happy. A request was made for more information about the specific math involved, so I bit and typed up the in depth explanation linked above. A bunch of "Ideas" (half-empty's content) got posted, and discussion took place with only a few minor bumps.

About 100 people signed up that night. The next day, I was minding my own business when I heard a "Oh shit." from my housemate in the other room.. sure enough, we were about to get semi-Slashdotted (mind you, this was a cable modem) I killed my PC, grabbed the RAM out of it, slapped it into the server, prayed, and surprisingly it survived. I had 500 new users in two hours. The posts were coming in at a pretty crazy rate. (This was the only time that I saw the rate of input that I've envisioned since I started working on the project.)

Within a week or so, roadrunner took notice, and pulled the plug. I thought it was over for a while until I got an e-mail from Tim Wilde of dyndns services.. he had been a member of half-empty during the time it was up, and didn't want to see it fade away. Putting me into their slice of "cool stuff" on their budget (as Tim put it), half-empty would survive. I went into a coding spree for 48 hours, fixing any big bugs I could since the site was going to be dead for a few days. Tim arrived, put the box into the cage and plugged it in, and half-empty was back.

Of course, most of the folks who had been there originally had drifted away because of the downtime. The site has managed to addict a handful of people, however, and we've been trudging on ever since. There have been creative stories and plays discussed, politics, coding, and even a dirty joke or three :) It's become apparent that the moderation system, if nothing else, has caused people to read, preview, edit, and post their thoughts. I'm happy with what it's become, and can only hope that the mentality there will remain the same while the userbase gets larger.

So, today I've reached the end of this road, and probably the beginning of another. I've released the source to Glasscode, and (hopefully) have made it straightforward to setup and install. It's a Java-based servlet application, with many of the features seen in slashcode, with additions such as skinning, appending to posts, selective archiving, user tiers, category permissions and overviews, and plenty more. It provides a component based system for adding new types of content, and there is even an skin development kit to aid in the creation of new skins (which when accepted by the central server will be available to all Glasscode based sites.)

Hopefully this hasn't been too drawn out of a story to culminate in a software release.. I'm hoping that you've been entertained by my struggle against the need to code that most of us have learned to accept and embrace. One thing that many hackers need to learn that computers are just tools, tools which will be ultimately used by people. Linux, Gnome, Glasscode, and all software is there to help people do things or think in ways they couldn't before. With this in mind, Happy Hacking :)"

Comments

Sheepish tendencies

[THB]

The problem with any public moderation system is that it tends to promote posts that agree with general consensus, and stifle any other opinion. I have seen this time and time again on slashdot, and it leads to a closed minded discussion based on a single idea of what is right and what is wrong.

This is especially apperent on topics based around opinions, such as politics. As someone with a many opinions that do not agree with the far left majority of slashdot, I consistently see perfectly valid points and opinions moderated down, or never moderated up, just because they do not agree.

By only seeing one side of the story it is impossible to get a fair view of the situation, and a now biased personal opinion cannot form. This manifests itself into a closed minded group of people, moving farther and further in one direction, leaving reason and individuality behind.

Re:Sheepish tendencies

[blamario]

The solution is to split the sheep herd into several sub-herds whose members happily agree, and let the black sheeps which want to hear differing opinions roam among them.

Imagine an N-dimensional space, where every user and every posting is represented as a point in that space. Whenever you rate a posting with "+", your point and that posting's position move a bit closer to each other. When you rate a posting with "-" these two positions move away from each other. The poster's point also moves in the same direction as his postings.

Now, when you post a new comment, at first it will appear right where you are. After several "moderations" from other users it will be moved to where it's liked better, and you will be dragged along after it.

After many iterations, this kind of "Slashdot Space" should evolve into several clusters of think-alike users and comments they like. So if you rate negatively all KDE-vs-Gnome pissing contests, you'll soon get far away from them, and from the users that post them.

Your reading treshold would be maximum distance between your own position and position of acceptable posts. Or you can think of it as "eye-sight". Another useful thing could be to assign each comment a "size" quality, or visibility. Comments rated positively from many different users "grow" and become visible from afar. This is probably necessary to prevent a split-up of the forum into several group of users who never hear of each other.

Now the difficult part is the choice of N (dimensionality) and the initial system state. You could set some meta-positions or lighthouses, landmarks, whatever, that represent the unmovable positions people can use to orient themselves. For example, there could be a M$-bashing landmark, Pro-M$ landmark on the opposite side of the universe, goat.cx landmark, Pro-Napster landmark, etc.

Cool thing is, if you keep a database of all +/- ratings, you can always generate a new version of the space if a need arises, like if a new dimension (er, landmark) pops up. And even better, you can "dumb down" the space to any two dimensions and show it as a graphic on demand. Now that would give a whole new meaning to whereami command :).

Re:Slashdot should be commended

[QuantumG]

You're kiding right? The only reason Slashdot posted this was to kill em off! Distributed DOS attack stylez.

Just Kiding. Does appear to be down however ;)

Moderation?

[2nd Post!]

Well, one thing I am slightly bothered by is that moderators shouldn't be the ones judging on or off topicness; interesting (as a personal interest), overrated (again, personal judgement), insightful (personal), etc.

I can trust a moderator to make judgements concerning themselves, but not for the judgement of the community.

Metamoderation is a way to determine if a person can moderate intelligently, hopefully.

I can't agree to your view that a +5 interesting doesn't get comments. A really powerful, interesting, insightful, whatever, comment, doesn't need to be provocative or controversial. It doesn't need to generate comments, though obviously it would be nice if it did; I always enjoy getting comments!

Geek dating!

Re:Oh please...

[Ross C. Brackett]

Actually, there once was a time when /. was pretty devoid of trolls. Taco and Hemos used to post in open forums. People posted patches in response to Ask Slashdot questions. Technical arguments by industry experts were common.

Then the trolls arrived. At first they posted genuinely - and since everything they said was mindless drivel, they decided that /. was lame and that trolling was okay.

So trolls will tell you that they're doing a good job saving /. from lameness. I wish they could know that /. wasn't dumb until they arrived. But I can understand - I didn't have much perspective when I was 14 either.

One size doesn't fit all

[bcrowell]

Slashcode is great for doing what Slashdot wants to do: handle bjillions of simultaneous users per topic, never have to censor, allow anonymous posts, and be very selective about the new topics that will be started.

Slashcode may not be the best model in many other cases. For instance, I run a slash-ish site for book reviews, focusing on reviews of free books. The selectivity-about-topics part of Slashdot is obviously completely inappropriate for this kind of site, since the equivalent of a Slashdot article is a book, and there's no reason to exclude books. Also, a particular book is likely to be discussed only sporadically, not in a Slashdot-style feeding frenzy, so I didn't need Slashdot's mechanisms for getting rid of first-post trolls, but I did have to implement a system for people to ask to receive e-mail notifications when discussion is posted about a book they're interested in.

A lot of things are a matter of taste and culture, and one size does not fit all. A lot of Slashdotters are paranoid types who have filled the margins of their copy of Cryptonomicon with conspiracy theories. So it makes sense that Slashdot allows anonymous posts. However, for most discussion sites, the single simplest thing that can be done to get rid of trolls is simply to disallow anonymous posting -- make people at least put their nick on their posts, if not their real name and e-mail. For book reviewing, it's particularly important to have some idea of who the reviewer is and what his qualifications are.

BTW, this last issue -- does the person posting know their posterior from a cavity in the earth? -- is, in my opinion, the place where Slashdot is the most deficient. It's fine when you're reading discussion on a computer topic, since most Slashdotters are computer nerds, and mistakes get pointed out really quickly. But it's a big problem in the science section. A lot of the people posting there got their ideas about science from Star Wars. You get ridiculous stuff like people saying that asteroid mining can be accomplished by "dropping" asteroids into the Earth's atmosphere, where air drag will slow them down and let them crash to the surface. So this is an example of how one design doesn't necessarily work for everything that even one discussion site tries to do.

The Assayer - free-information book reviews

Slashdot should be commended

[Fervent]

For all the flak Slashdot has been getting recently (selling out to VA, not having a sufficient moderating system for the posting of stories, duplicate story posts) there is one thing its always done right: it isn't afraid to tout what could be a potential competitior's wares and site.

I give kudos to Slashdot for being one of the only commercial sites on the web that does this.