Working Internationally--What Should It Pay?

Knightman asks: "I recently had a discussion with a friend that works with designing hardware. He had been offered a consulting job abroad where he would get $50/hour, which I thought sounded a bit low considering that my company charges double that for me when I do work for a customer and I'm a programmer and not a hardware specialist that a Silicon Valley company wants to hire. After some discussion back and forth we realized that we had no clue whatsoever on what to charge for a job done abroad. So I'm wondering what is the difference between countries when it comes to charging for a job? And are there any online resources where you can compare this?"

Comments

How does $20 sound?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know abroad that gets $20 for a 'job

salary and cost of living calculators

[hairy moose]

salary comparison calculator: note it does not take into account local tax variations, etc. (they've got a page that goes into details on the source material)

http://www.homefair.com/calc/intsalcalc.html

rough conversion weights:

http://www.expatforum.com/Resources/icol.htm

YMMV

Re:Working in Sweden

[Amanset]

Cost of living is less? I'm sorry but that is total dreamland, especially when you consider that Sweden has one of the highest costs of living in Europe.

You will get hit by tax badly. VAT (sales tax) is what really surprises me. It is on everything, literally (I am a Brit and therefore used to no VAT on food, books and suchlike ...). On most non-food things you will have a rate of 25%. My income tax in Sweden is 33.8%. That is the base tax area for where I live (Bromma, West Stockholm). I do not earn enough to be in a higher tax bracket.

I hope you are not a drinker as Sweden has some of the most blatantly ridiculous alcohol prices in Europe. If you want to drink at home then you will have to buy alcohol from System Bolaget, a state owned liquor store chain. There are nowhere near enough of them, they close really early during the week (usually 7, maybe 8 on Thursdays and Fridays) and only open (if you're local one opens at all) for a maximum of five hours on a Saturday (10-3). There are no Sunday openings.

There are more job opportunities than you can shake a stick at. Just about every IT company has an office in Kista, a northern subhurb of Stockholm. They like to think of the area as "Europe's Silicon Valley". The local shopping mall even has a Sweden/Silicon Valley clock. If all else fails, try to work for Ericsson. Every Swede appears to have at some point. They probably throw you out of the country if you haven't worked for them within 3 years. *grin* Telia, the recently privatised Telecoms monopoly, is also a good bet.

Just about everyone below 30 speaks incredible English. This however, can be a problem if you are trying to learn the language. Swedes can hear my English accent from a mile off, so even if I start a conversation in Swedish they will always reply in English. This sometimes gets to me and I end up in the bizarre situation of a Brit speakign Swedish to a Swede speaking English.

If you are a happy tax payer you can always got to the recently privatised (a bit of a theme here) SFI, who give you Swedish courses for free. I have no wbeen learning for 9 months and all books and two 2.5 hour lessons a week after work are free.

Really bizarre thing: I hope you don't tend to take sick days. In Sweden you will not be paid for the first sick day and will only receive 80% of your pay for the second. If you do take a day off you make damn sure you get better before you go back to work. If you take a day off, then come back for a day and then take another day off you will lose two days pay. Well, unless you are creative with your timesheet (which everyone in my office is). Either that or just claim it as on eof your holidays - and seeing as you get a ridiculous 28 days holiday plus IIRC 9 "red days" plus, if you are lucky, a half day before the "red day". It is no joke that some companies practically close down for a month or two over the summer. With so many holidays many people take a MONTH off.

Hmm. Went on a bit there. I know some things there sounded a bit negative. Sorry, it isn't a diss at Sweden. I love the country and am very glad I moved here. Hope I was som ehelp. Maybe I should go to bed now.

Question way, way, too vague

[anticypher]

You might have just asked a lawyer, who will always tell you, "It depends" :-)

It sounds like a foreign company is hoping to get some american talent for cheap. It depends on where the job is, and what the living and working environments are.

There are a bunch of factors to look at, start with taxes.

Americans have to pay taxes (or at least file a return) even if they pay taxes while working in another country. The U.S. is the only country in the world not to have signed the UN treaty on double taxation (ok, count Somalia, Bhutan and a few tiny, recently created countries as exceptions). What this means is if you earn more than about US$60,000 while working overseas in any 12 month period, the US wants your taxes, even though you have to also pay taxes in the country you were living in. The US$60,000 exemption only counts if you have absolutely no income in the US during any calendar year while away overseas, and that includes interest on savings accounts or gains on stock even if you didn't sell and realise a profit. Factor this in. Americans overseas need to charge a lot more to cover the eventual double taxation.

The cost of living varies from country to country. A LOT! Even in Europe. There are websites with indexes for many of the various costs, such as local taxes, rent, meals, food, transportation, etc. The money I earn in Belgium wouldn't carry me very far if I lived in London, but would be great for Poland, Portugal or Tunisia.

The quality of living varies enormously as well. Dublin has a great nightlife, but it closes down way too early. London has great curry but the suckiest and most expensive transportation system. Paris is, well, full of Parisiens, but Americans love it. Roma is full of Italian women. But if you get stuck in Tangiers, Izmir, Kiev, Kinshasa or Ulan Bator, no huge amount of salary will make up for a year or two of hellish or dangerous living.

In Europe, a good freelance hardware consultant, willing to work as a complete independent, pulls in between US$800 and US$1500 per day. (Note, nobody uses hourly rates when contracting, just daily). Independent means just that, the company expects you to show up and work in return for money, and doesn't want to hear about work permits, housing problems, kids, taxes, health insurance, or anything else. So you have to more than double a normal salary to include health insurance, local social charges, your own accountant, rent, car hire, and transportation to the area. Take out 25%-75% income taxes, and you may be left with very little actual income. $50/hour is only $400/day, which is tiny for anyone with a degree and some experience. Check jobserve.com for some going prices around Europe, mostly in England.

If you have any experience as a freelance consultant, you start to think in these terms: There are 20 to 22 work days in a month. Half of all days are eaten up in taxes, social security and an accountant. Subtract a day or three for each flight home. Rent or hotel should not be more than 3 days pay for each month. Local hire car, 2 days pay. At the end each month, you will have 3-7 days pay as your profit. Would you only want to earn US$2,800 for a month of work as a highly paid professional? At least triple your rate.

If the employer wants to make you a regular employee, find out from ex-pats in that country what the working conditions are like. How stable are jobs? If you quit, how much can your employer hold you for? What is typical rent in the area? Are ex-pats regularly cheated by not speaking the local language fluently? Can you be arrested at the airport without a letter from your employer allowing you to leave the country (i.e. Oman, Saudi, Malaysia, Indonesia, Tunisia). Will your passport be siezed by your employer until the successful end of your contract? Can you legally take your salary out of the country?

Anything the company is offering up front is loaded in their favor and against you. Know exactly what you want, and tell them every condition before even drawing up a contract. And make sure everything is clearly in writing, especially what you have to deliver to ensure a clean end to the contract.

So many questions. At least slashdotters are filling up the forum with lots of things for you to think about. I could go on for hours, but the Guiness is wearing off and bed calls. Give this forum a few days, and then make up a large list of additional research you need to do. Working overseas, especially if you are earning an obscene amount of money, can be very rewarding, and not just financially. Once you start traveling and having fun in many new places, you can never really go back and settle down.

the AC