Slashdot Mirror


Jef Raskin On OS X: "It's UNIX, It's backwards."

drfalken writes "Interesting piece here about OS X from Jef Raskin's point-of-view (he was one of the wizards behind the original Mac GUI). He thinks that even the concept of an OS is a hold over from an older era, and that work should be done to get the user closer to the app. I dunno if I agree. "

6 of 420 comments (clear)

  1. Not new... by Shotgun · · Score: 5

    This has been tried several times before. Basically he is saying that we need console type systems that come pre-configured and are controlled by the company that sold you the thing. IBM tried it with the PC-Jr. Radio Shack had a PC out in the early days that pop up their own little shell when you turned it on and tried to reign the user into their own little arena.

    They all fail for the same reason. Joe Blow gets the thing home and uses it for a week just like IBM et.al. intended. Then he heads over to CompUSA and sees how the $10 calendar program lets him put his own pictures on a calendar. "Why can't my computer do that?" he ask. Then he gets mad at whoever it was that sold him the computer in the first place, and starts looking to buy a real computer.

    Computers are complex and get in the way, because people want to do complex things that go in so many different directions that no matter where the OS is it is bound to be in the way eventually.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:Not new... by TheJohn · · Score: 5
      Basically he is saying that we need console type systems that come pre-configured and are controlled by the company that sold you the thing.

      No, he's not really saying that at all. Raskin goes into quite a bit of detail about his vision in his book, The Humane Interface , and it doesn't involve most of the things people are attributing to him in this thread. It's not about locking people into one application provider, or even eliminating menus, or not having what I would call an OS (controlling devices, managing resources, etc.) It just doesn't look like what we often think of as an OS. There's a summary of the book on the site. Read it, then shoot your mouth off.

      I'm not sure I agree with him entirely, but the book is interesting reading and does bear some thought, and it's clear he's no "bozo".

  2. "Former MacOS developer wishes OS's would fade..." by maggard · · Score: 5

    I find it annoying there both the /. headline and the original article's headline focus on MacOS X when the article is clearly about OS's & interfaces in general (though brought up in context of MacOS X.) It would have been more honestly headlined as "Former MacOS developer wishes OS's would fade into background".

    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
  3. Good point... by glowingspleen · · Score: 5

    Brilliant! I agree, we should move to direct apps.

    Hmm...but I want to run more than one...hey wait a minute, I have a great idea! Let's get rid of the OS and just make an app. We'll have the app hold a bunch of shared files, and then we can fiddle with it so it allows multiple instances of one program. No wait, let's make it so we can run a bunch of different apps at once and change between them. And let's make our app "special" so that if one of the mini-apps breaks, the big app can just kill it without the mini-app taking out the whole system. Man, this is going to be GREAT!

    Oh yeah, that app would be an, uh, OPERATING SYSTEM. Oops.

  4. Re:Prompts by Mononoke · · Score: 5
    They can't do it. they can do it with applescript (or whatever they use) but not through the GUI.

    Wanna bet?

    Here's the process I used:

    1. Double-click folder (ie: directory) icon on desktop
    2. Press command-a (sellect all)
    3. Press command-c (copy)
    4. Click on text-entry app.
    5. Press command-v (paste)

    Here, I'll press command-v for ya here:

    gallery images printed already sf20010101.gif sf20010102.gif sf20010103.gif sf20010104.gif sf20010105.gif sf20010106.gif sf20010107.gif sf20010108.gif sf20010109.gif sf20010110.gif sf20010111.gif sf20010112.gif sf20010113.gif sf20010114.gif sf20010115.gif sf20010116.gif sf20010117.gif sf20010118.gif sf20010119.gif sf20010120.gif sf20010121.gif sf20010122.gif sf20010123.gif sf20010124.gif sf20010125.gif sf20010126.gif sf20010127.gif sf20010128.gif sf20010129.gif sf20010130.gif sf20010131.gif sf20010201.gif t-shirt images

    (Of course, HTML doesn't know what to do with the linefeeds, but they are there.)

    That's a directory listing of my Sinfest archive.

    Nothing in that procedure that would be unknown to any Mac user.


    --

    --
    NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
  5. A Limited Vision by Somnus · · Score: 5
    The "computer as appliance" vision is stultifying. There's a reason a computer has totally general input (keyboard, mouse) and output (pixel-based monitor, sound) devices -- people want their workspace to be totally abstracted from the hardware in which it resides. In this sense, the modern OS totally accomplishes its task in that the creation, installation and usage of applications are usually only limited by dev time and performance. Thereby, we humans can let our imaginations run wild.

    Handhelds and kitchen-counter-top Internet appliances have a totally different engineering goal: "What the hell is Bob's phone number?" or "Mommy, can I check my email before dinner?" Just because a user wants to have total convenience in one context does not mean he or she desires the trade-off in flexibility in another. The workstation paradigm still has its place.

    As for those who say that Internet-distributed apps via Mozilla-XUL or MS-.NET are the future, you are omitting an important human element: Territory. My workstation is my territory; I want to control it's config to suit my tastes, I want to determine its design tradeoffs (e.g. speed v. portability), etc. I would not be comfortable with getting all my apps via the Net no matter the speed, for it would just as weird as living in barracks and getting my toiletries by ration every morning.


    *** Proven iconoclast, aspiring epicurean ***