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Getting The Most Out Of Co-Op Programs?
co-op-ted-out asks: "Myself and several other high school students from local school districts are currently co-op employees at a fiber-optic company. The first several weeks of the program were quite interesting and informative, but over the last month or so we have been used primarily as cheap labor in simple, repetitive jobs, such as equipment tests and upgrades. Although we are certainly getting a glimpse at a high tech industry, several of the other students and I don't feel that the company is living up to its end of the bargain, nor do we believe we are being used to our fullest potential. We certainly didn't sign up for this program in order to be cheap labor; we signed up because it was marketed to us as an "engineering project," and the majority of us plan to pursue engineering-related careers. What can we do as students to improve our experience, and what guidelines should any company follow when conducting a cooperative education program such as this, particularly with high school kids? Is there anyone out there who has found a successful way to run such a program?"
My first co-op was in grade 11 at Newbridge Networks (which is now part of Alcatel). In a way that term was like the one described by co-op-ted. I was working in an assembly plant and performing labor for free. On the other hand, the program was attached to an electronics course, and I did learn about electronics there. Plus it was basically my first job...I got alot of exposure to how the workplace actually functions which was very important.
The next year, I did another term at Nortel. This one was linked to my computer science course, and it proved very valuable for me. I was able to learn what the process of designing software in the real world was like, and they gave me the time and space to learn a new language (Perl) on my own from scratch.
Now I'm in College taking computer science, and I'm out on my third co-op term at Canada Post. (Yes actually mail can be high-tech). I'm really enjoying this experience. We're working on developing applications on PocketPCs (yeah yeah, MS, I know..) which is something not many companies have done and definitely not something I'd get to experience at school.
So I dunno, maybe my case is a little extreme, most people won't get the chance to do that many co-op work terms. However I have no doubt that they've helped me become not only a better programmer, but someone who knows how to handle the workplace. And when future employers see three companies on the resume of a guy fresh out of college, that's an impressive thing.
[tounge in cheek]
Consider this a good educational experience. The company management apparently does not recognise your intelligence or ability to solve problems, nor do they seem to even place a decent value on your contributions.
Later, once you have your credentials (and some real world experience), you will find that company management does not recognise your intelligence or ability to solve problems, nor do they seem to even place a decent value on your contributions.
And far in the future, when you are a top professional, having proved your worth and intelligence many times over, you will find that company management does not recognise your intelligence or ability to solve problems, nor do they seem to even place a decent value on your contributions.
In short, the experience you gain now will be relevent for the rest of your career.
A dingo ate my sig...
However, I did the co-op thing last year, and had a pretty good experience. The one who was in before me did grunt work -- the few times when he did anything at all. They weren't too inclined to give anything that could be important to someone who didn't want to work. Although I did my share of the dull stuff, after a few months I was doing quite a bit of programming and system administration ... the things that didn't require a whole lot of experience, but still needed to get done.
Another thing which helped out ... I sort of went in the back door. (I was lucky, my father works for this company ... but check around with any friends you have with engineering positions; they very well may be able to steer you into something interesting.) HR people generally have their own ideas about where they want the co-ops, and if you do some of the legwork yourself, you may be able to get more choices as to where you end up.
The primary thing I took from my job was that I never want to work in a corporate environment, if I can possibly avoid it ... but the six months of experience waas many times more valuable than a semester of school. Think for a second ... what would you rather be doing, reading a textbook (generally badly-written confusing trash by a faculty member) and doing pointless homework and tests, or doing and watching the same work that you hope to be doing some day? It may not be fun, but there are lots of advantages.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Co-op's don't have to suck, but they often do. The problem is, many companies look at you as cheap labor, paid only in experience. You can't be trusted with new engineering tasks, only grunt work that a temp could do, or things that aren't mission critical.
If you are stuck in one of these, and not getting paid, get out. If you are getting paid, stick around, but you'll probably learn more taking another class.
If you are getting paid in a boring, repetative job, you may have to take some initiative to make it a good experience. The best way is to shadow engineers doing the "exciting" stuff, and get them to talk about their jobs. You'll learn something, and, if they like you, you may get moved somewhere more interesting.
If you can't shadow, then spend a lunch with them. You may get a free lunch, if they are feeling guilty, and you'll learn a lot while they talk over sandwiches. Same benefit - you learn something, they may like you enough to move you to something better.
I haven't had a work-for-credit situation, only summer jobs and part-time work during school. I haven't had a bad experience, but that was mostly luck. The best ones were jobs where someone had a pet project, but couldn't justify putting someone with experience on it.
One summer, I worked for an energy trading company, filling out forms required by new industry regulations. EXTREMELY boring, but I took my spare time to exhance the original Excel form into something much better, learning Visual Basic along the way. I was able to make a one-hour task take 3 minutes, teach someone else how to do it, and left the process better than when I found it. I got a nice sweater out of it, and a good recomendation.
In another job, I had to analyze a set of dial-up computers, used as remote terminals over slow-bandwidth connections. Again, boring work, plus the computer room was freezing. I took the time to automate the process, put together some presentations, and learned a bit about how the company worked. I also had many interesting lunches, and learned much more than the scope of my job.
To make a co-op or part-time job sucessful, you need to get yourself interested in it, find something to like or something new to learn, and talk with those with experience. Again, if you can't do this, or have no interest in the work, you are better off taking another class, rather than working a co-op.
It won't get you out of the work you are already assigned, but you can volunteer for new projects. You can invent something cool and ask your boss permission to do it.
Nobody's going to challenge you but yourself. Nobody said to Edison, "I need something that I can talk into and play my voice back to me." Edison dreamed it up and had his lackeys build it for him.
You don't have the lackeys to do stuff for you (yet) but you can still dream up things for yourself. Personal challenges are always internal.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
First, do everything they ask of you. Do it quickly, and do it well. This shows responsibility. Acting like you are above this sort of work will not endear you to the people who normally have to do that job when you're not around.
Second, since you've done the assigned tasks quickly, you should have some time left. Show initiative and ask for some more complicated, additional projects.
This worked for me. I was able to turn a snoozer of a summer job into something pretty interesting.
Good luck!
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
You are being oppressed by the capitalist pigs.
We must overthrow the tyranical captialist who makes us work at gunpoint and forces us to take their money in payment to perpetuate the capitalist system.
We will overthrow capitalism and install a perfect socialist society where we can all comment on how great Ralph Nader is and we can all make ice cream together. Our society does not need money, because Star Trek told us so. Some people will do the dirty work like being garbage men because they love our society and our fellow man so much that they don't mind smelling like rotting sealife.
Meanwhile we can live in the trees and eat small nuts and berries and save all the plants and animals, even the ones that eat us sometimes.
Hurrah.
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
I remember when I thought I wasn't being used to my full potential. When I thought I was undervalued by my company. When I felt I could recode the whole world without bugs in under an hour. How I yearn for those days. How I miss last week.
Ok, enough kidding. Actually, I do still feel this way, I've just learned not to harp on it. Most of the other engineers I know feel that way, too. Most non-engineers seem to think that way about themselves, as well. You just have to learn to make the most of your situation.
First, look at it from your employer's perspective. There are three reasons why a company hires high school students: Cheap labor, good PR, and in a few rare cases, a real interest in helping high school students find their calling. A lot of people on here are probably saying, "Of course they just want you as cheap labor, deal with it." I'm not going to say that. What I'll say is, take advantage of it. To make the most of your situation, here are some suggestions:
1) Accept that you are going to do some crap work. It's inevitable, whether you're a grunt or a top engineer. Sometimes, the only difference between way cool and big-ass lame is a few thousand repetitions.
2) Ask questions. Lots of questions. Try to make them good questions. (There are no stupid questions, but lots of inquisitive idiots, blah blah blah...) This will: keep them aware of you, let them know you're interested, and possibly lead to them revealing more interesting secrets.
3) Find the mentor. Somebody there is truly interested in helping you out. Most likely it is some old geek who will never have kids of his own. If you can get one of these guys to take you under his wing, chances are he will let you in on the cool stuff he's working on.
4) Play on their motives. If you can find the real reason the company hired you (cheap labor, pr, etc.), you can work it in to your discussions when you try to get cooler assignments. Try this, "Oh, there's no need for [engineer] to spend his time on that, I can handle it."
And never forget, you're just in high school. I know that seems insulting right now, but you'll be saying it yourself in a few years. People are supposed to have crap jobs in high school - it's like a rite of passage or something. And boring crap is better than manual labor.
And in conclusion, stand up straight, fly right, don't forget to floss, and pull up your pants!
Seriously. You will get out of it what you put in to it. The company may not be 100% what you think they promised, but you must put in 100% anyway. So they have you doing crap work. What do you do at lunch and on breaks? Are you talking with the engineers (or hanging with your buddies)? Are you reading whatever they have laying around (or did you bring in a copy of you sociology text to study)? Are you showing a willingness to learn (or are you moaning about the grunt work)?
Sometimes experiences are plain old rotten, but often times they can be made much better just by having the right attitude at the right time.
Luck, after all, is mostly just preparedness meeting opportunity.
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I can't believe how many people have posted things along the lines of "pay your dues", "shut up and quit whining" or "what'd you expect"?
In all of my internships, I always found a real project to do and did interesting work. And a lot of my friends did, too. You know how? By doing it.
My first internship was at RealNetworks (at the time called Progressive Networks). I knew how to program Macs, which was rare, so they put a Mac on my desk and told me to be a tester (I think my instructions were to keep clicking until it crashed). Well, I found a bug, but instead of reporting it, I opened up the code and tried to find it. I didn't understand the code, but instead of asking my boss, I found other engineers who were happy to answer my questions. And I found the bug. And about 35 memory leaks. Then I showed my boss that I had actually fixed those bugs and many others.
By the end of the summer I was given full responsibility for the new Installer Wizard and I also ported the first RealVideo proof-of-concept to the Mac.
You're going to have many bosses who don't know how to take advantage of you in such a way that you make a real contribution and learn, too. But others may have projects for you to do, and once you impress them they'll be more likely to give you a try.
Of course, you may have to do some menial labor, too. That's part of the job. But that doesn't mean that you can't also learn and have responsibility, too.
In high school, just watching what an engineering job *is* is a learning opportunity. But there are 2 truths you must understand.
1.) Co-ops -ARE- cheap labor. They hire you as an employee at a lot less rate than college grads. You get experience (and trust me, you get experience just making coffee if you are exposed to how the corporation works), and they get cheap labor. Its how the world works.
2.) Entry level jobs (even engineering) is a lot of tedious, repetitous tasks. Especially in large corporations. Only after a few years of that do you get to do interesting work. Its something we all go through.
Take this as a learning experience when you get to college and co-op as a college student, take a job in a smaller company (like 100 employees) and you'll have a slightly more interesting job experience. Always do 110%, because employers recognize that with more interesting jobs.
Oh, and kudos on co-op'ing. You'll find yourself a much more desirable possible employee with co-op experience.
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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
For in a real job, every day is filled with incredibly interesting experiences.
There is no boring paperwork to fill out, no stupid software tests to run, no boring software reloads, no drinking coffee and St John;s Wort endlessly just to stay awake in front of your web browser.
No tedious pruning of the 2000 odd pieces of mail in your inbox, no hard drive maintenance, nope, just laughts and giggles.