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SOUP is Good for You
raelity writes "CNet is running a story about Ximian, nee Helix Code, planning to bring Web Services a la Microsoft's .NET to *nix operating systems by incorporating "SOUP" (a play on SOAP) into the Gnome user interface. "While tech kingpins such as Microsoft and Oracle have rushed to one-up each other in introducing Web-delivered software, Ximian is doing work behind the scenes to make sure Web services can run on the Linux and Unix operating systems.""
You know, you can mod me down for this little observation - though I don't think it's justified. But isn't it a little interesting that people always mock KDE because it is so Microsoftish and all the "cool geeks" use Gnome when, in all actuality, the lead Gnome man always seems to praise and follow Microsoft openly? Bonobo for instance, then SOUP?
I'm not making a judgement on all of this, but it always seems so hypocritical to me.
I'm having serious doubts whether leveraging this technology is the way to go. Considering that Microsoft hasn't a good track record for introducing useful and really open standards, the SOUP-crew might expect too much from .NET.
Wouldn't it be wiser to continue to create new and enhance existing standards. This would garuantee that new concepts will be available to all platforms, without being dependant on a single vendor which has a track record that isn't too rosy-colored (especially in the open source world).
Web technology as it exists (ranging from the simple interaction of web server & client, to databases which are integrated in webplatforms and internal information systems) has a lot to offer right now, and we can expect a lot in the future. I don't see why the direction should be altered towards a single-vendor 'solution'.
The Internet concept is largely the product of inventiveness of academic minds who did not have profit motives. This proofed a wonderful thing. Let's us not part from that now.
This embrace and extend strategy can work many ways, not only in the favour of Microsoft.
Whatever M$ does, it will be extended (polluted) be their accumulated enemies.
//Pingo
--- Linux or FreeBSD, it's like blondes or brunettes. I like both. ---
There is something called SOUP, which is something like a SOAP for binary data: The Simple Object Update Protocol (SOUP) specifies an content-transfer model for digital "appliances" like cameras, printers, scanners, picture frames, personal digital assistants, cell phones, machine control systems, and so on. SOUP standardizes simple but important communications between content-rich devices. It uses Simple Object Access Protocol (SOAP) messages to push content from one device into another. The approach resembles the way web browsers pull content from web servers. SOUP works with only two device "actions": 1)HTTP GET to obtain the device or service object state as a SOAP serialization and 2)HTTP POST to set the device state as well control the transfer of content. SOUP supports simple transfer, transfer with job control, indirect transfer (URL based), and content negotiation. SOUP does not preclude additional actions on devices; it exists to make simple actions simple.
"We're making it so you can write services in the Java environment and bring them to the (Windows) platforms, as well as do the reverse," said Gates. "We think Java looks sweet," Gates continued. "Sun is supporting Java for creating network services. But we will let these services become available to Windows."
Boot. Foot. Other. Funny.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
While tech kingpins such as Microsoft and Oracle have rushed to one-up each other in introducing Web-delivered software, Ximian is doing work behind the scenes to make sure Web services can run on the Linux and Unix operating systems.
While web-delivered software seems like a good idea, I wonder what the consequences for free software are. Obliviously free software isn't going to go away - but I see it becoming a less viable alternative. There are several reasons for this.
(1) If software is delivered via the web, you will require someone else's computing power at the other end of the line. Someone has to pay for this. As the recent experience of the dotcoms shows, business models based on giving stuff away free almost invariable don't work. Software provides will have to be paid for the service they provide. So an end to the free beer aspect of software.
(2) If software is running on remote server's, then even if it is covered by an open source licence, in many cases, the people running the severs will not be distributing binaries, so won't be required to provided source code for any changes they make. Hence an end to the free speech aspect of free software.
Sure, not everyone will use web delivered software, so open source software will continue to be used by niche users. However, once the mainstream embrace web delivered software (and this is likely since its being pushed by MS and Sun et al), open source software will be permanently confined to the backwaters. This will mean its benefits will only be enjoyed by a select few.
I really hope that the GNOME-team has been in contact with the KDE-team here, to create a protocol that will make the protocol a common standard rather than a GNOME-specific invention. Sadly, I don't hold my hopes up on this one...
Or is SOAP a replacement for .NET, much like TeX was touted as a replacement for a majority of the word processors out there? Not that that strategy worked entirely (an overwhelming number of TeX users seemed to jump ship when StarOffice came on board). It would be nice if the two were able to recognize each other, or at least SOAP recognize .NET.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
In the software testing community, SOUP degradingly refers to "Software Of Unknown Pedigree"
It appears SOUP is just going to be a GNOME interface to the .NET SOAP (XML based remote object invocation) interfaces.
.NET SOAP interfaces.
There's no reason KDE can't also use the
What a ridiculous argument. By your argument, anyone who has ever done anything "wrong" (and I'm not yet sure that charging money for a high quality products is "wrong"), we should never forgive them or give them a second chance. Utterly ridiculous.
You're doing yourself no favor by staying away from Qt. It is an oustanding toolkit, and you should take a look at v3.0 on the way soon.
know anyone (no, not your company) who owns a real copy of Motif
No, but I know more than one company that has a Qt license.
I give trolltech lots of respect for giving away their flagship product for nothing. If they want to make money on it by using two licenses, more power to them. It works for them, and it works for me (and other free software developers).
But hey, don't let logic convince you... go on denying yourself access to a slew of amazing free apps.
--
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
SOAP is already a cross-platform standard. So what is this SOUP thing actually? The only clue in the C|Net article is where it says "Ximian is creating a tool that will allow Web services written for Linux to be compiled for SOAP. De Icaza said the compiler could be available to developers within two months."
Ah. So it's a tool of some sort, not a protocol. A google search on "Ximian SOUP" only turns up this message, which isn't that helpful (the "synapse" server it refers to is maybe https://synapse.ximian.com/, which isn't publicly accessible. Anyone actually know what this thing IS?
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In general, I think you are right, though. Both KDE and Gnome follow Microsoft quite a bit. And while that may be useful for mass market appeal, overall, I think it's a shame. Linux's GUI could be so much more useful than merely doing well what Windows already does.
I don't know about others but yes VNC is very promising. Now how to make anonymous users run simple apps safely over VNC..
War is necrophilia.
You're missing out almost entirely on .NET. Remember way back when when Microsoft announced ActiveX? Which was a fancy name for OLE which is basically building a large piece of software out of a bunch of pre-written components. .NET is the replacement for all such object communication technologies Microsoft's been using since 1994. Instead of using a binary packet to transfer objects between apps they're now using XML files. This has lots of benefits; everything will speak a common protocol and potentially non-Microsoft apps will be talking to Microsoft apps, besides different systems talking to one another, you can write components in your favourite language and have them talk to components written in different languages. Yet another aspect of .NET is the use of intermediary code. Components can be written in any language and compiled to the p-code which contains no architecture specific data structures which means any OS with a .NET interpreter will be able to run the component. Something Java's been doing for a while now.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Uh...how so?
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.