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Crusoe To Power Microsoft-Based Tablet PC
buzzini writes: "Bloomberg is reporting that Microsoft's upcoming Tablet PC will be powered by the Crusoe chip. An announcement is expected tomorrow during a BillG speech at WinHEC." According to the article, "the development versions of the Tablet PCs will likely follow a hardware outline given at Comdex. Aside from the Transmeta chips, they will likely include 128MB of RAM, a 10GB hard drive, a docking cradle, a USB (universal serial bus) keyboard and mouse, along with built-in local-area networking based on the 802.11." Wireless webpads will rock -- hope they're here before 2000! OK, before the new millenium. Well, errr ...
Bill and Linus working on the same end-result project? Cats and dogs living together. "C'mon Martha, time to get to the bomb shelter."
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
unless they use this always-on LAN to invade privacy, report piracy, etc.
sulli
RTFJ.
The Tablet PC is NOT a Palm or WinCE device. Microsoft has demo'ed these units at several of its conferences, and they are a full-fledged PC running Windows 2000 or XP, with a touch-screen LCD. Basically, imagine breaking the screen off your notebook, turning it over to lay flat and upwards, making it touchscreen, and then as thin as a paper notebook and you'd have the Tablet PC. The large benefit Microsoft hopes to gain from this deal is in terms of power consumption and lowered heat output.
.NET strategy: Suppose you want to edit a document on your Tablet PC while you are in New York, but the document is still on your home PC? No problem... the Tablet PC can dial out through whatever Internet access you have, connect to your home PC, and download the document, all without any user intervention. The possibilities are endless, since it is a full PC after all. One might even be able to get Linux running on it, only sans the neato software.
The software for these devices is also very interesting. You can handwrite notes, and the software can spell-check, in handwriting! Also, you can doodle pictures, which are then automatically converted to images, which can them be resized and placed elsewhere. If you happen to be reading a book, you can drag the text down to create blank space in order to write your own personal notes. When you walk into your home (assuming you have wireless access on your PC as well), your documents and settings are syncronized with your desktop PC automatically; no having to put the Tablet in a cradle and manually run a program. It all just 'happens.' This is also part of the
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-- russ
"You want people to think logically? ACK! Turn in your UID, you traitor!"
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Haven't the folks at microsoft learned anything from Gateway/3com/epods?? People aren't ready for or just plain don't want these connected 'net appliances yet. Just ask virgin, who had to fold their webplayer service, or 3com, who just dumped kerbango and audrey(audrey didn't even last 6 mo's). Or ask Gateway, whose Transmeta-powered AOL pad isn't selling either. Or ask epods, if you can find them since they folded. I'm not saying give up, but the "build it and they will come" mentality is obviously flawed. Maybe the subscription services sold with the devices is what did them in, maybe just bad marketing or design, but some real research and forethought needs to go into this before someone tries again. just my .02 tho'
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
Why is it that a pen is considered to be more natural than a keyboard for typing (a typewriter)? I mean, even writing itself is not something natural in the animal kingdom. We came up with the idea of writing with a stick in some sand, with some paint on the cave walls and now with a keyboard on a computer screen. How can we possibly claim that one way us more natural than another to do an unnatural task?
And forget the writing. Information should be entered into a computer directly with a thought. Evaluating the thought context is what they should concentrate on.
You can't handle the truth.
I'm glad to see the Crusoe finally getting used in some devices. It's been available for months now, and this is the first major product I've seen it in. A web tablet or other sub-laptop device will work just perfectly with the Crusoe processor.
The Crusoe isn't nearly powerful enough to suffice for most notebook users, as users are looking for a device that can handle professional applications like MS Office and StarOffice, and most users will also be playing limited games. The Crusoe simply is not powerful enough to meet the processing demands of the latest games and business software, but it should be ideally suited to a web tablet device, that will be used primarailly for web surfing and light text editing.
Cheers to Microsoft for pioneering the Tablet PC, and choosing Transmeta to power the device.
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
Presuming that MS doesn't put any particularly incompatible hardware on the board, I'd expect someone to have a Linux port done in short order... an inasmuch as I don't much care to pay for a copy of Windows I'll not be using, that might be a cost I'm willing to accommodate to have one of these things.
What is this I see?
The brethren of Slashdot joining together to praise Microsoft?
The end is nigh.
Jezz, when was the last time you went to Frys or Circuit City? The smallest laptop on display with that lame half screen that you use a virtual desktop on, that's a Crusoe processor inside. I know this simply because there's 200 signs pointing at it saying "look, an actual product from Transmeta, buy me, buy me!" which no one does as soon as they try it because of that lame screen.
How we know is more important than what we know.
It used to be that everybody was Microsoft's friend, back when MS was an OS-and-tools company. It didn't matter that they controlled the OS, because everybody was making money with the growth of the PC. Then MS moved into the applications area, and suddenly, companies like Lotus and Corel (and Netscape!) were history.
All along, the PC manufacturers were happy with MS's domination, because it made life easy and profitable to them. Why bother installing other OS's or applications, as long as they could keep moving boxes?
I wonder how Michael Dell feels now, with MS poking its tentacles in his direction?
hehe... karmma to spare. Do your worst.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Want an inexpensive Windows CE-based web browser, email client, MP3 player, voice memo recorder, rudimentary games machine, and home automation X10 controller that will also create and edit Microsoft Word and Excel files with handwriting recognition and 16-bit color in a package that resembles a space-age Etch-a-Sketch? Get an ePods, hack it and for $199,00 it's all yours.
[Insert the usual disclaimer here]
ZdNet is reporting that Transmeta "will assist Microsoft with tweaks to the Tablet PC's Windows XP operating system." So we could have Linus actually developing Windows XP.
Best Slashdot Co
PDA's didn't make a dime for anyone until the Palm. Of corse I already have a nice 802.11 laptop, so I'm not going to buy this unless it is dirt cheep and can run my OS of choice.
Just because nobody else has made that market niche pay off doesn't mean MS can't. It also doesn't mean they can.
I hate to break this to you, but there are lots and lots of places that do go for WinNT or 2000 on servers. Maybe they are insane. Maybe NT/2000 really is better for their task (probably because MS has kept the protocol closed). Maybe both.
Remember Go, Eo, General Magic, Grid, Windows for Pens / Winpad, Compaq Concerto, and various WinCE flavors? All crashed and burned. I don't see why this will be any different.
sulli
RTFJ.
At the CeBit in Hannover on Saturday I was able to hold and play with a ProGear webpad from Frontpath. It features a 400MHz Crusoe and a about 10" touchscreen display. It runs Transmeta's Midori Linux. In the demo version they were running Netscape (only), the X Server let you rotate the view in all directions, and it supports a (not yet finished) handwriting support (and of course on-screen keyboard). In the completed version it will support other applications (i.e. probably be a full Linux system). It was linked up with a WaveLan card and the overall performance was impressive. (From what I heard a touchscreen that big is a pretty tricky thing to implement.) This might be a nice alternative to a MS WebPad, especially for people who like to play with such things - it features almost all the things this MS WebPad will have, and it comes with Linux ;-)
;-)
On the other hand, the people there from Frontpath said that at the moment they are concentrating more on B2B deals - many businesses want to use it for things like taking inverntory, medial purposes, etc. Whether or not this will catch on with the general public remains to be seen... but with all the places that have wavelans set up, it might soon be possible to surf anywhere, anytime
ie I can actually write letters instead of weird glyphs that I have to memorize
Wha...?
That doesn't even make sense - you learned the alphabet, right? You are too lazy to learn a second? Actually, the Palm's glyphs are relatively easy to adapt to, from what little I have played with them. I would personally buy a Palm and fully learn it, if I had a real world use for one (actually, I am beginning to think I do, what with all the information I keep, etc).
Give it a chance, and don't be so lazy...
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Pen computers running Windows are used primarily in vertical markets such as utilities, insurance, health care, transportation, government, and sales force automation. Unbeknownst to the general public, there are dozens of different pen computers available from companies such as Telxon, Symbol Technologies, Fujitsu PC, Fujitsu-ICL, MicroSlate, WalkAbout, Xplore, Melard, Panasonic, Intermec , Itronix (now including Husky), and others. Pen computers come as tablets, clamshells, and slates in many different sizes, configurations, and degrees of ruggedness.
Check out the link for lotsa info and lotsa links.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Okay, perhaps this is off-topic, but I wonder if this would allow me to scribble a flow-chart free-hand and it will convert it into a Visio document??? I would be sold on that in a heartbeat. I can imagine sitting in a meetng scribbling the flow for an app and then sending off the chart to other developers without having to go back to my desk to make the chart from my pathetic notes...
I also see a future for this type of thing in the medical field as long as the security is not by M$FT...
Step 1 - The XBox. This is a box that will sit in your house, connect up to your internet connection (broadband) and aslo have the side benifit of running games and DVDs. It Will act as the "Computer furnace" for the rest of the devices (coming soon)
Step 2 - The Webpad. You have these screens (Of various sizes and color depth, just watch you'll see all sizes dorn to a cheap 160X160 B/W model) that connect up wirelessly to your information furnace (Step 1) and give you neat-o keen connectivity from anywhere within range.
Step 3 - Terminal Services. As the limitations of the webpad become apparent, Microsoft starts to roll out the ability to use your "Information Furnace" as a Terminal Server. You have all the applications on all your webpads updated at once. No fuss no muss. This is accepted because of:
Step 4 - Application Subscription. The cost for this will be ongoing because the new software will be subscription based. You won't even need to administer your furnace, because the subscription includes monthly maintenance of your furnace. Of course, with persistant internet connectivity, they will always have complete access over all the Microsoft computers on your home network.
This is how Microsoft will get complete control of the home computer arena. They don't tell you to bend all the way over all at once. First, you lean a little, then a little more. Pretty soon you are completely bent over and you don't even know it.
Of course, I could be wrong.
-Joe
Yeah, right. Microsoft is going to take technology from Transmeta in order to get Winbloat XP running better on laptops. That is the only reason they are partnering. They do it all the time. Transmeta will get some $$ but Microsoft will end up owning the API's and techniques. They did it to Sybase (SQL), they did it with SpyGlass (Mosaic), they did it to Stac (disk compressor)......
Microsoft is such a powerfull company because they leverage their monopoly power to eliminate competition. IMHO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
After using first a Palm III and then a Vx for a couple of years now, I came in last week to find a new Jornada on my desk. I was instantly excited and went to work setting it up....
What a horribly mangled interface. There's no easy way to switch between applications without quitting back to the main menu and getting a list of all the applications. There's no way to just close the app you're working with, you again have to go out to the main menu and pull up a list of running programs.
Many of the applications written for the "Pocket PC" or WinCE platforms don't deal well with the screen shape and dimensions.... sometimes you're running an app, but you can't pull up the keyboard, and since there's no area set aside for the "scribbling," you're screwed unless you can access the menu to pull it up.
Basically, the PocketPC isn't 1/100th as elegant as the Palm, and I'm completely frustrated every time I pick the thing up. They're basically trying to cram the Windows95 interface into a 2"x3" screen, and it's just not possible, or even worthwhile to try.
Yes, I realize that they're talking about using XP on these tablets, but if they can't get WinCE right in 6 years, my hopes aren't very high.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Don't sell the Vaio C1 short. I have one with an Orinoco 802.11 card, and it rocks. All Sony really needed to do to make truly-portable computing practical was get the size and weight down without compromising on features, and they got it right with the C1. When your computer weighs only 2.2 pounds, all sorts of interesting things become possible.
It sounds like TabletPC is basically the same thing with even better ergonomics. It's going to be interesting to see if I feel like trading my C1 for one of them.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
... and it'll take you about 20 seconds to get used to the Trackpoint device's virtual-resolution feature.
In short, RTFM before flaming the PCG-C1VN. It's easily the coolest toy I've run across in the last 5 or 6 years. If it helps, don't think of it as a PC with a small screen -- think of it as a PDA with a huge screen.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
It also hasn't shown particularly that they have a clue anywhere except a certain monopolistic operating system. Also a few closely associated applications where they illegally leveraged the operating system to gain market share e.g. wordprocessors (allegedly), web browsers (as found by a court)...
Nothing kills quicker than believing your own press.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Is this the same Windows 2000 that blue screened on me 3 times in 20 minutes with memory errors when I was trying to download a CD ISO image? You must have the non-crash US version. This (P)OS has given me more trouble than Win98, 7 different Linux distros and QNX RTP put together, starting with the 15 reboots required before it would even install.
Wuggers wrote: "Why would anyone need so much processing power in a web tablet? Let's be reasonable about what these devices can be conventiently used for: comfortable data retrieval (great form factor, no wires, very nice), and unobtrustive data entry (the electronic legal pad). People aren't going to be cruching numbers on them, writing novels, etc. Why a 10Gb harddrive?! A full desktop OS!? This is insanity!"
... whay the heck *shouldn't* someone be able / happy to write a novel on a web pad? Anything with a USB port can take a keyboard, and a webpad with one of the new USB happy hacker boards sounds better to me than the usual laptop.
... why limit when the limits aren't inherently good? A big hard drive? Cool! Maybe I'll use it as an in-field dumping station for digital pictures or even video. Why the heck not?! :) Add a small USB camera, it's my portable videoconference system.
Eh?
Not that a less-endowed web pad would not also be cool (the Epod is a cool one), but I dunno
But whatever it ends up being used for, you sound anxious to limit its options -- why?! A webpad might end up being the guts of a wearable, a remote data station, a giant remote control, home automation doodad, e-book, portable knowledge base, whatever. It's like "640kb ought to be enough for anybody"
And re: "a full desktop OS" being insanity, well, it depends what constitutes "full" and "desktop" -- certainly I'd like the OS to be appropriate to the device, but in a device with a moderately powerful x86, memory, and a nice screen, why cripple it with a weak OS? There are small Linux distros all over, and 128MB isn't too slouchy. Not huge (anymore) but not bad, and plenty to play with.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
- Killed off competition
- Solidified Windows and NT as the office and residential OS of choice.
Now, Microsoft is attempting to use that same "vertical" strategy in the internet, by trying to make the internet microsoft-only. Win2k is a great operating system and in many ways I believe it is far superior to linux. However, it has a fatal flaw: It only works with 100% microsoft environment. Networking is not OS sensitive, and my personal belief is that in the long term the dominant players in networking enabled devices (appliances, pcs, servers, pdas, whatever) will be those that support the broadest number of industry protocols and cross-platform standards.Someone you trust is one of us.
There's already pen-based software available for linux (including, in-progress, some grafitti-like stuff), and anyhow -- being that these things will have keyboards, existing software should do just fine. Booting really is a question, though -- projects like this are more than slightly liable to use cheap components which sacrifice compatibility.
I actually like David Brin's idea of sub-vocalizations, in his book "Earth". But hey, for the moment thought input and such are still science fiction, for the most part (yes, I know about the brainwave experiments being conducted).
What would actually be pretty fast would be some sort of dataglove (or maybe a video digitization system) and use a form of signing. ASL would be a pretty neat way to do input on a computer, if the computer could be taught and it could recognize the patterns fast enough. This would be easiest with the dataglove system, rather than the video capture system.
I am not sure if it would be faster than typing, though. Perhaps a new kind of keyboard needs to be developed - think of a chorded keyboard system, but using all of the keys on the keyboard, and both hands - perhaps that would be quicker (though I wonder if increased RSI would result as well). We already know the chord for "reboot" - who says other chords couldn't be devised as well (in other words, more complex than other familiar multi key inputs that are already allowed)?
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
The TabletPC is not trying to imply that using a pen is more natural. It's just more convenient. You can write a lot of stuff with one hand -- one hand holding the tablet, and one hand holding the pen, while walking around.
I'm sure down the road you will see these tablets using voice recognition, freeing one hand (at least).
And eventually, you won't hold the tablet at all, you'll wear it, and the interface will appear as though it's floating in, translucently, before you, but only when you want to see it.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
"And like that
Oooooh. What a lot of tantrums. And they call Linux zealots obsessive. My PC is a Compaq 5511 with a a PIII-500, ATI Rage 128, Ne2K, EMU10K, 256MB of RAM and various other extremely standard hardware. No doubt though it's Compaq's fault because Microsoft have never produced a shit OS have they?
I think the secret to living with the C1 is to appreciate it for its strengths. Sure, its keyboard sucks, but it's a lot better than no keyboard at all. That's going to be the new MS tablet's biggest weakness... answering email by handwriting is not my idea of a good time.
:)
It's possible to get used to the C1's keyboard, but it's more of a user-attitude adjustment than a practice-makes-perfect routine. Just keep asking yourself if you'd rather be using a Palm Pilot.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
I have one. OK, so it's my school's but I get to play with it. It runs a 486 33MHz, has a BW 640x480 (I think, don't remember) screen, Li ion battery, decently ok handwriting recog (similar to palm, but the glyphs are closer to normal and recognize somewhat worse. It runs DOS and windows for pen computing 1.0 (win3.11), has some networking stuff I never fixed, an 80MB 2.5" IDE disk, an external floppy, 4MB of memory (expandable to 12 if we knew where to get the card), a PCMCIA slot, and external kbd if desired, standard serial/parralel/ps2 ports, and a little thing to hold the pen. Pretty neat, never went to Linux because we didn't want to figure out the touch screen. They're several years old, we got them from Duke. Oh yeah, and they drop to 25MHz on battery power. Sound familiar? And battery life is at least the 1 1/2 hour class period.
I wasn't specific because it was a general point. It could be their Kerb5 extension. It could be Office2000 file formats (which I think of as protocols). Having their protocol closed makes their program no better at implementing it, but it makes all other programs worse because they have to work off of guesses and experiments. Their protocols are also (likely) to be worse then openly developed ones.
Where did you see me feeling sorry for them? Or rooting for them? I only said they might not fail. I didn't say if I wanted them to fail or not. I doubt this box makes a big difference, the Xbox is probably much more important to them. WindowsXP is way more important then either. I want all three to fail. However my desire for them to fail doesn't change their chances of failure.
I can want the webpad to fail, but that doesn't mean it will. If the only reason someone else says it will fail is all others in the niche have failed, I think it is a damn good idea to point out the flaw in that argument, even if I want the same thing they do.
I may want the Xbox to fail, but I have to admit that there seems to be a lot of people who are talking like they will buy it.
I may want WindowsXP to fail, but I have to admit it doesn't sound like they have screwed it up badly enough to lose out (they would be screwed if someone else had a "decent" offering that could run all the Win98 crud).
Nice to be mistaken for a snot-nosed kid. I assure you, I remember pre-microsoft. Or at least before they had an OS (they were cranking out BASIC interpreters for 8biters when I started).
M$ will port to anything that runs the x86 instruction set. Anything else is, iffy...
They have certainly never been able to port their OS to any other platform.
To those who say that M$ has never implemented an OS on the x86 either, I say "yeah, ain' dat da troof!"
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Why should I take it back when it works perfectly for Linux, QNX and even Win98? Why is it never Microsoft's fault when it's products crash? I am, by many definitions, a Linux zealot, but I still don't have any problem about admitting that it isn't perfect. But here I am daring to suggest that Windows 2000 has a few problems and I'm surrounded by the sort of rabid zealotry that you Microsoft lot have long insulted the likes of me about.