Maintaining Computers Donated to Schools and Charities?

ScottBob asks: "Recently, there was a story on the local news about a community outreach center that was broken into and vandalized, and among other things, several donated computers were stolen. After the story aired, several more computers were donated by local businesses. A followup story showed the sympathetic business owners removing unused computers from closets, etc. to donate to the center. This leads me to believe that the computers the center originally had were also old computers that were donated because they were taking up space and gathering dust after being replaced with newer, updated computers. But that's where the problem lies: Since they are usually given away due to obsolescence, how is the community outreach center, elementary school, or other charity supposed to maintain them? They won't run today's software, which usually means having to track down legacy software of its era, possibly making illegal copies whenever legitimate copies are too scarce, making the school or charity guilty of crime under current laws." Scott makes an interesting point, however I'm not so sure that much can be done about this situation. Computer hardware and software becomes obsolete so quickly in this market (and it's happening faster by the day, too). Couple that fact with the latest trends in software laws and licensing and you discover that keeping an old machine viable is getting more difficult by the day, and this will get worse as time goes on.

"As we all know, sooner or later older computers reach a point where they are useless for anything beyond the software of its era. I recently was called to help a fix a friend's granddaughter's computer. The problem? The computer worked perfectly, everything was fine. But it was OLD. A 1995 vintage Packard Bell with Pentium I, 75 MHz processor, 4x CD player, 6 MB RAM and 500 MB hard drive, bought right after they started shipping with Win 95 preinstalled, and cost them nearly $2000 when it was new. Obviously, they weren't too up to speed on computers, because they wanted to get on the internet, and tried to install AOL 6.0. Of course, the installer came up saying that the system didn't meet the requirements. That's when they called me. I spent the next hour trying to explain that it would be easier to buy a newer computer than to try to upgrade this one. This is exactly the type of computer that gets passed along to charity, one that still works but is just too old to keep up with today's MP3 playing, DVD viewing, CD burning, cable modem screaming, 3D graphics slinging supercomputers we all now have sitting on our desks.

Assuming this computer could be upgraded to the maximum allowed by its motherboard (maybe 32 MB RAM and 800 MB HD if the BIOS supports it, and Pentium 133 if it can be jumpered that fast), are there sites that deal exclusively with the care, feeding and uses of geriatric computers, like where to obtain parts, how to jumper old motherboards and just how much upgrading can be done without having to replace the motherboard (thus having to buy a video card, sound card, and modem, since they were often built into the mobo of these old systems- in short, an entirely new computer), and links to suppliers of legacy software (' abandonware') that can be accessed by a REALLY light web browser such as Opera?"

Comments

How We Handle it in Charlottesville

[waldoj]

Here in Charlottesville, the community created Computers 4 Kids, a non-profit organization that takes just such computers and gets them into the hands of disadvantaged kids. (Sometimes via other non-profits, such as the Boys and Girls club.) I think that this solution works well, as difficult as it is to accomplish: create an organization for a community that gets volunteers to fix up these machines.

Our minumum specs, BTW, is a P133 w/ 16MB of RAM and a 1GB HDD. (I say 'our' -- I just volunteer there every week or two.) Most of the machines that we give out aren't much better than that. We put Win95 on most boxes (I'd love to put Linux on there, but we want these kids to know how to use systems as a eventual job skill, not as a primary skillset), which works just fine.

If the kids' machines break, they bring them back and a volunteer fixes it. Without a group like this, it would be pretty well impossible for systems to be effectively reused in central Virginia. But the result is that these kids have resources that they would never otherwise have access to.

Waldo

Re:Leading question

[lizrd]

Well, garsh, maybe if we can't use newfangled proprietary software on these old computers, we should put free software like Linux on them!You raise something of a point there, but Linux isn't any great silver bullet either. If you want to be able to browse the web you're going to need a little bit of power, older machines aren't going to be able to do a good job of running Konqueror and Netscape for Linux is a real RAM hog. I'm typing this here on a 486-75 Dell laptop I had to search around a bit to find some RAM upgrades (teamexcess.com and computergeeks.com have good selections of old and used computer parts) but I've now got it running RedHat 6.0 and hooked up to my cable modem. I certianly wouldn't want to be stuck with this as my only computer, but it's at least somewhat functional. On the other hand, Windows 95 + IE will take up a little smaller RAM footprint than Linux 2.2 + KDE 1.1 + Netscape 4.5.
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Some minimums ...

[dougmc]

You'll probably need at least 16mb of ram, and Windows 95 (alas these people probably aren't ready for Linux or anything other than Windows.) You may be able to canibalize other computers for memory. Windows 95 is a better choice than Windows 98 or NT for computers like these, and Windows 3.1 is really too old for anything anymore.

500mb of disk is a bit tight, but it might be enough if managed carefully (i.e. you don't install lots of junk.) If not, pull another 500mb disk out of another box and put it in here for a total of 1gb.

Don't try to use Office 2000. Find some old copies of Office 95. It'll do most of what everybody needs, and should work with 16mb of ram. The biggest problem with Office 95 is likely to be that it won't load Office 97 or Office 2000 files -- which may or may not be a problem.

Why these computers were donated

[Mononoke]

Keep in mind why these computers were donated in the first place: Tax write-offs. The donors don't really care if the computers are actually used, they just want to: A) clean out that back storeroom, and B) write them off their taxes.

The best thing to do with these types of donations is to sell them as scrap, then take the money and apply it to the operations budget of the organization. Or take the money to a local computer shop that will sell you good useable hardware at cost (or less), with the understanding that profit and support will be considered a donation. Many times the computer shop is stuck with some of last year's models which would certainly be good enough for bookkeeping uses, will run current software, yet are "too old" for the computer store's normal customers.
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Somewhat offtopic, but....

[Xenex]

"today's MP3 playing, DVD viewing, CD burning, cable modem screaming, 3D graphics slinging supercomputers we all now have sitting on our desks."

We all have cable modems? We do?! Unfortunately, not everyone can access cable or other high-speed forms of internet access. The majority of people still connect via dialup, and isn't going to change for years yet. The infrastructure just doesn't exist for everyone to be able to connect at 'decent' speeds.

Yes, I know dialup is obsolete. Yes, I know it's awful to use. But it's not going away, because a lot of people that want it can't get it, and a lot of people that can get it won't pay for it.

Slowly and sadly posted via a 56k modem by someone that would happily pay for something better...

Education is one key

[kchayer]

I realize that this doesn't really answer the question, but from my experience, I'll have to echo Cliff's comments. Sometimes we need to help the less-knowledgable understand that sometimes it isn't worth the trouble to hang onto these old computers.

Naturally this occurs on two sides: those who are giving and those who are receiving. Companies that can afford to upgrade their equipment probably want to offload their old equipment for a tax write-off. Heck, they probably take a write-off for what they originally paid for the equipment. They need to realize that, depending on the age of the equipment, they really aren't doing the receiving institution any favors by sending them equipment. Sure, a graphics design company might not have much use for last year's P-III 450s, but 486s, early pentiums, Mac classics, and older might prove to be too much trouble for exactly the reason brought up in this question.

The other people that need to be educated are the people accepting the equipment. I can't think of how many times we have had to explain to the administration around here that those old computers just weren't worth it, and that we couldn't make them good for anything. If they *could* be upgraded, and we were going to try, our money would be a lot better spent on purchasing newer machines.

Also, those who donate equipment, as this article mentions, need to donate it right away. In the given example, I wonder how many companies had computers sitting in back rooms and closets for over a year? I realize that donation can't always happen right after they upgrade to new eqipment, but all too often, stuff probably just gets forgotten about and then a year later it's even less worth the upgrade. At least the eqipment might be old when they donate it a little earlier, but it might still be viably (is that a word?) useful for someone, and there still may be some old accessories and software available.

Ok, maybe I should throw in some suggestions for use, too, if people really do want to hang onto this old stuff. I have seen smaller computer stores (not Best Buy or Wal-mart, mind you) and especially salvage parts suppliers carry older hardware and software that perhaps these old machines can use. If it's a school or other non-profit institution, and one copy of an older, useful application could be obtained, I bet if they'd write the software company, they could get permission to install older software. The software company could even consider it a donation, and it wouldn't even cost them anything. Also, older programs might be available via online auctions as well. Or even those reverse auctions where you mention what you want. I imagine there's tons of people out there that have old stuff sitting around in their basements, they just don't know anybody wants it.

"I say consider this day seized!" -Hobbes

This may not be what you want to hear...

[ArcticChicken]

...but that Packard Bell system might be more upgradeable than you think. I have a painful amount of experience with Packard Bell systems from that era.

The PB 75 MHz systems I've dealt with were all upgradeable to 166 MHz with no fuss, and upgradeable to 200 MHz if you updated the BIOS. Pentium 233 CPU's are still surprisingly easy to find ... worst case you could install one and underclock it to 200 MHz. As for hard disks, we still have several PBs kicking around for use as print servers that were upgraded to 1.6 GB disks. I'm not sure what the maximum HDD size is, but at least we're not limited to below the 1 GB barrier. And finally for RAM, the systems we've got can all be upgraded to 128 MB.

For complete manuals, BIOS updates, FAQ's and other support documents on older Packard Bell systems, take a look here:

Packard Bell support (via Priority One)

They make you register, but doing is worth it (it was for me, anyway, given how many of these hateful things we have lying around).

Think about needs, and find a Geek.

[shumacher]

You need a geek. Not just any geek, mind you. You need someone that can take some time, and understand the organizations needs, and not just install Linux on everything and disappear.

In this case, the perfect candidate is someone in their mid teens that might not quite be old enough for a job, but is interested in a good letter of recommendation so they can work in a computer store instead of flipping burgers next summer. Or, they need some charitable work to put on a college application. This sort of nerd has the skills to get the system set up for the organization, and make sure it meets their needs.

For example, the aforementioned Pentium 75 is more than capable for straight web browsing, desktop publishing, mailing lists, contact management, and any number of other minor tasks. Windows 95 is perfect for that sort of thing. While I do have a new laptop, I'm typing this on my Pentium 100. It doesn't frag like it used to, but with a 4.x/5.x browser, it's perfect for the web. The trick is to get out the excess garbage.

Even very old machines can be useful as a learning tool. I have an old 42 MB hard drive that died about five years ago. Why I didn't throw it out is beyond me. I could replace the lid with a sheet of polycarbonate and give it to an elementary school. My favorite science teacher came equipped with a screwdriver.

I learned from my mistakes early on. Don't just show up with a Heath H89 and a Tandy TRS-80 Model IV. Ask them what sort of stuff they need and cater to that. That way, you'll both save a hernia.

Packard Bell Pentium 75? Could you imagine a Beowulf cluster of those things?