CCTV - The Fifth Utility

An anonymous reader sent in a solid story discussing the fifth utility, or, the closed caption surveliance systems in Britain. Lots of background information on encryption and privacy issues. But in the end, a very good story covering a lot of issues that might be second nature to many readers of this site, but maybe not to the average newspaper reader.

Comments

perfect government

[Sanity]

It is the freedom not to be forced to trust your government.

--

What a troll. (or, why you should be afraid.)

[luge]

The fair, brotherly cops and respectable politicians are the source of enough institutional racism that the UN is getting involved. Your government has investigated the cops and found them guilty of pervasive racial bias. Heck, your own officers don't even believe that their fellow cops are fair or brotherly.

BTW, the rate of church attendance is more like 44% in the US and 27% in the UK. The University of Michigan has one of the most respected social sciences/statistics departments in the world, so please don't come back here claiming otherwise.

And as far as New Labour and the "Third Way" being responsive to the people... well, it's about as believable as hearing the same thing from Clinton. It is true that the British government isn't bought and sold as brazenly as ours is, but it is just as responsive as any other government when dollars (or pounds, as the case may be) are at issue. When those businesses want to start invading your privacy more brazenly, you can be sure that MI5 will be there to help out.

In conclusion- either you are a damn good troll or you are pretty deluded about the society you live in. Hope it is the latter... it is never too late to learn.

~luge

Re:Is that so clever?

[barracg8]

• Is that so clever?

Yes it is - using humor and entertainment to put across a serious and definitely non-mainstream political agenda is a very good idea.

Mark Thomas would not get the audience and the platform to speak from if he did not play around and do silly stuff like this. But at the same time he demonstrated the power of the DPA, for example forcing a government department to hand over all the emails on their systems mentioning his name. He exposed a minister requesting a civil servant try to dig up dirt on him (MT). Not exactly the way you would expect a government ministry to spend taxpayers money - launching smear campaigns against stand-up comics.

infotainment has its place.

Re:Eh?

[barracg8]

• The right not to have the police following you around all the time, waiting for you so commite some crime so they can arrest you.

First of all, the police are not watching you - for the simple reason that it would cost too much. Councils contract private security companies to staff CCTV systems, since the police are already over streached - and the CCTV operators will only bother calling the police if they see a crime in progress.

Secondly, some people do want to be watched. For example, I heard of a pilot scheme in one city in the UK, where there is a phone number that a single woman walking home alone at night can ring. She can leave her description, a time, and roughly what route she will be following. Now, rather than walking home alone in the dark afraid of being attacked, every time she turns a corner she will be greeted by the sight of a CCTV camera turning to focus in on her. Having a big brother to watch over you is not always a bad thing.

• used or posesed any illegal drugs

To quote the subject at the top of this thread, "CCTV is a reflection of cultural differences." Please bear in mind, that in this country, if you are caught smuggling 5 grams of pot into the country it is assumed to be for personal use and you will be given a £70 on the spot fine. Compare that to the US view on drugs smuggling. Cultural differences.

Re:CCTV is a reflection of cultural differences.

[barracg8]

• Don't you ever watch any Mark Thomas?

Note for non-Brits:
Mark Thomas is a politically motivated comedian-slash-borderline-terrorist (that's meant as a compliment) and probably one of the biggest pains in the government's ass.

One thing that he had great fun playing with in his recent series, (not what prev. poster was talking about, but relevant to CCTV), was the Data Protection Act.

This is a wonderful piece of UK legislation, which allows you to demand any company/organization which holds information about you to give you a copy (with certain exclusions ie some government agencies). So you can walk into MacDonalds, fill out a form while you eat your burger, giving the time, date, a description of yourself, the clothes you are wearing, etc, then hand it in before you leave forcing them to send you a copy of the footage of you sitting there filling out the form.

:-)

This is all wonderfully silly.

Re:Eh?

[BenHmm]

the liberty to *not*get*caught*

:-)

Re:Eh?

[Deluge]

the liberty to *not*get*caught*

Yeah, I know there was a smiley there, but then again some dweeb moderated it as "Insightful".

If you're a wanted criminal and they catch you as a result of seeing your mug on CCTV, good. If you're committing a crime and you get videotaped doing it, and locked up as a result, good. Fact is, when you break a law you're giving up your liberty under the system that enforces those laws.

Before you say anything about silly laws - they can't use the CCTV system to bust you for having a stash of MP3's or warez'd games unless they point the camera in your room, which they don't. Obviously the crimes that this deters (And gets people caught for) are clear-cut crimes such as assault, vandalism, theft, etc.

And if, by chance, this system DOES get you busted for a bad law, one (for example) pushed through by moneyhungry corps, then it's a whole other discussion about why those laws shouldn't exist in the 1st place.

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TLA???? License for a TV?

[BiggestPOS]

Does this sound odd to everyone else outside of England? To me it sounds insane. Like issuing a license to own a computer, or a phone. Please tell me the British government doesn't require a license for a fucking toilet, cause that would suck.

Re:TLA???? License for a TV?

[xDe]

What if you don't want to watch BBC? Why doesn't BBC just run a subscription model like HBO or use advertisements?

Yep, this is how new channels are funded. But the license fee is a historical artefact... when it began, the BBC was the only channel. If you bought a TV, you were going to watch the BBC on it because there was nothing else to use it for, so it made sense for the license fee (read as 'subscription fee') to be compulsory for anyone who bought a TV.
Why not use adverts? Firstly, because people don't like watching ads and complain at every suggestion that the BBC should be funded this way. Secondly, the BBC historically has the aim of producing quality public service broadcasting, which would be compromised by the need to pursue advertising revenue. (Of course, the extent to which the BBC achieves this is debatable, but that's the theory.)
Why not subscription? Well, the license fee is effectively a subscription. The only problem with this interpretation, as you say, is that you are forced to pay wether you want to watch the BBC or not - but in practice the number of people who own a TV without ever using a BBC service is extremely small (I'd be very surprised if it was as high as 1 percent). Not really fair on that small number, of course, but the license has been in place for fifty-odd years now; people are just used to it.
In short, the license fee is a typically British solution of the form, 'it's only slightly broken so don't bother fixing it'.

Why are the Brits Okay with This?

[Bluesee]

I must ask you, since you are obviously an apologist for the TLA system, and by linear extrapolation, an apologist for Echelon, CCTV, the loss of the ability to protect the citizen from governmental intrusion into their privacy.

Why do you think these policies are good? Do you really believe - as I assume such a highly-homogenetic society must of needs become xenophobic to a degree - that people who are not exactly like you are (British) Should be watched carefully?

Because, as you know, your elected officials use this system to spy on their people for no reason at all other than they are not proper British citizens, i.e., if they are Irish they are members of the IRA, so they get spied on, if they are of Middle Eastern descent they may be terrorists so they will get spied upon, if they have long hair or go-go boots they are likely drug dealers and so they get the Big Eye.

Orwell was a Brit. I would prefer that you folks just lionize the hell out of him for what he was: a man who ushered in the glorious world of today with all its wonderful spy gadgets that keep Mum and Dad safe at night, rather than a prophet of Doom, which you all should have taken him for. You Brits act like you all prefer it that way. You talk about how you can trust your government, unlike us Yanks, but I contend that that is only because your government hasn't come after you like ours goes after minorities, or Abbie Hoffman, etc.... And that is because you are all one race, and no other reason.

Don't you see that you are to become un-free? Already you are not free to do what you like, because it will leave you exposed and vulnerable to the long arm of the Bobbie. Oh yeah, but you don't carry guns so you are better than us Yanks.

Please try to see what the general implications of all this internal spying are, and then, do write back, old chum, and tell me why it is that all this sits easily on your mind.

Transparent Society

[LionKimbro]

David Brin was right; the cameras are coming. Make sure that we can watch our leaders and police as easily as they can watch us.

The British TV License

[Zeinfeld]

Since so many have asked, yes you do need a license to watch TV in the UK. The program has a two fold purpose, first to raise revenue for the BBC (apart from the World service which is funded by a foreign office grant).

The other purpose of the license fee is to set minimum standards of competence for television viewers. It is quite a while since I passed the test but I still remember some of the questions.

Q. Who played Emma Peel in the Avengers before Diana Rigg?

Q. True or False, Reginald Bosequett's hair [False]

Q. Why is Star Trek the most commonly shown US TV series A: The BBC purchased the UK rights outright for $80 per episode during the initial runs

To pass you had to score no more than 5 out of 10, thus demonstrating that you were not a total couch potatoe.