On Starting a Successful ISP?
Tigris666 asks: "I would like some handy hints from all /.'ers on what is needed in order to start up an ISP. I'm asking you guys in hope that someone out there has started one before, and i think that's a fair assumption. There are obvious things like mail/web servers, dial-in modems/systems, tech-support employees. But what i'm looking for is an idea on costs (we're talking Australia here), hardware required, and basically an idea on how hard it might be? Things like setting up the internet link, organising the phone lines to be put in, how many servers are needed, and the big thing! Is it all worth it? Does it pay off in the long run?" With larger fish finally jumping into the waters of Internet connectivity, is there still room for smaller companies? I would think that any new ISP would not be able to survive by solely providing dial-up service, and would need to look into the possibility of providing DSL or cable connectivity. However, providing broadband connectivity is a significant and expensive venture, made even more difficult considering the current economic conditions. What suggestions do you have for anyone who thinks themselves up to it?
"Basically the idea came up because the area I am from is in the country. There is only 1 service provider out there, and they are really bad with disconenctions, among other things, and everyone i know absolutely hates them. I think starting an ISP would be a good oppurtunity. I have recently moved to the city to get a real job, however I much prefer living in the country, so this will certainly be a big step."
I published this a few years ago for Unixworld. You will want to use the PAM (RH5) configuration.
A single Pentium 150 handled 32 lines with no problem.
http://rhadmin.org/uw/015.htmlStarting an ISP in the USA nowadays is most likely a mistake. Here's why:
The dialup market is almost effectively gone. Most ISPs now use their dialups to either add value to their existing services or because they service a tiny area with extremely dedicated customers. We service the NYC area and get only 1 or 2 dialup customers a month now (and lose 5 or 6), when they used to come in at about 10/day and we couldn't even meet the demand.
Dialups are practically sold as a commodity by big corporations who just want to sweep it up. You'll not only be competing with AOL, but AT&T, MSN, IBM, Earthlink, but also a bunch of ISPs that will give it away for free (like Altavista, of all people).
If you want to compete using other technologies, such as DSL, you'll have to deal with the phone company. Your main business will be selling the same technology that the phone company sells, but at a higher rate [because the telco prices it that way, since you're a competitor]. And when the telco downs your service for whatever reason, customers call you, not them. Your core business will center around escalating trouble tickets on behalf of your clients for DSL. There's a real reason as to why Northpoint, Red, and Covad have folded or are in deep shit. If you want to make money at this, you'd better have a lot that you plan to put down up front and won't mind throwing away based on the telco's whim. You will also compete directly with cable, which will almost always be less error-prone
The market is getting -more- saturated, not less. This is contrary to how most people thought it would end up (3 or 4 big ISPs dominating the continental US)
You will also deal with commodity web hosting providers who will host sites for practically nothing. You cannot effectively compete with them unless you either offer fantastic tech support or plan to provide custom development.
My advice for people starting new ISPs is that you shouldn't. It's a terribly bad idea. We're a small, established, conservatively run ISP (in terms of how we spend) and it's very hard to survive. We will survive, and we're finally out of the red, but it took us 5 years to get here, and the market back when we started is nowhere near as hostile as it is now.
If you're still interested: Forget dialups unless you really expect to target a strong niche market that AOL and the rest miss. I'd concentrate more on custom development for web sites (where you also host their sites), or finding some possibly untapped technology (like satellite internet, which could work very well in some areas).
If you live in a particularly metropolitan area, you could also concentrate on dropping T1's to huge office buildings and running ethernet to each client from there. That is a much better deal than the cable/DSL that they're probably stuck with. There's more sales involved than anything, though, with this approach. (Word of mouth doesn't seem to work as well for this since corporations don't generally get along as great friends within office buildings, least in my experience)
Good luck.
A friend of mine and I have started an ISP for very few start-up costs. We accomplished this by renting lines from UU.NET and then we provide the mail/radius, etc servers. They are in a data center. So it's been very inexpensive for us, and the dial-up line quality seems to be very good frmo UU.NET
Swift-Networks - Nation Wide ISP!
In the U.S., though, I've worked for an ISP who goes into a lot of little towns where there is no (or little) ISP service. They usually start out with 12 phone lines, which in US dollars is about $300 a month, and a frame-relay 56K connection back to the main ISP which is another couple hundred dollars a month, an Ascend Max 4000 or Portmaster III which you can get on eBay for not too much.
Webserver/mail server/DNS server? Heck, get a couple of lower end Celerons with, say, 128 megs of ram, a couple of 20-gig hard drives, throw Linux with Apache, Sendmail (or Qmail), Radius of some sort (I rather like FreeRadius) and BIND on them, and Ka-boom: instant servers.
Generally, what they do is say to the town: something like, you guarantee us X number of users, and we will bring Internet service to this town. Many times, the people will sign up (and pay!) for service before the ISP even gets out there, thus making it more or less a sure thing for the ISP (and for the users, since if they don't get enough people, the ISP gives the money back).
The big ISP's pretty much ignore smaller communities, so there is still a very large untapped market (at least in the US) for Internet service to small towns or rural areas. You can actually get quite a lot of users online before you have to get more phone lines and higher bandwidth, as well.
So, to sum up: minimum needed to be an ISP in a smaller town:
- Internet connection, at least 56K Frame relay,
or higher.
- At least 12 phone lines.
- Dialup server (e.g. Ascend Max 4000/Portmaster III, or linux box with multi-line modem cards)
- Web/DNS/Mail/Radius authentication server
Celeron 400, 128 meg Ram, 20 GB drive to start
out. You can make these separate servers, but
I've seen people run up to 500 virtual apache
domains and about 10,000 email boxes on the
same machine.
- Ability to remain calm under all customer calls.
That's my 2 cents.Tech support for newbies is, by far, the biggest pain in the a** for an ISP. Eliminate them, the job of running an ISP becomes almost enjoyable.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
With all due respect to that person of questionable intelligence who posted that rant about asking Slashdot about this as opposed to doing "research", well, I am the "pop" half of a "mom-and-pop" ISP in Houston, so I can probably give some sort of useful advice. In fact, in my opinion, and I've been doing this for most of the last decade, this sort of question asked in this venue is likely to produce more useful information than going to some library and trying to find a book that describes how to run an ISP. I really pity someone who tries to figure out how to start an ISP by reading back issues of "Boardwatch".
The first thing that I recommend to people who want to start their own ISP is professional psychiatric help. (In fact, I have the names of several very good psychiatrists and even a psychologist or two in and around Houston, TX, US.) If that doesn't convince them that it's more fun to go broke on a trip to Vegas than to accomplish the same task by starting an Internet business, then I can get down to brass tacks.
So, the advice (some of it contradictory) observations, and opinions in no particular order:
I'm sure there's more, but that's enough for now.
I've done extensive contracting work for "local" ISPs and I can tell you that they are in no way on their way out. Most people out there are happy with dial-up and aren't interested in the prohibitative prices of broadband. I recently completed some contracting work for an ISP in Western Pennsylvania and they went from 0 users to 1500+ users in about 3 months. There are four major keys to having a successful ISP:
/. community on this point but that is what people want, especially from their local ISP. They don't want to mess with FTP regardless of how good the directions are. They want to use their nice shiny pre-packaged Microsoft Web Publication Wizard.
1) You have to be financially committed to grow. When your dial-in lines are full during peak times consistently you need to add more. Nothing will cost you users faster than an ISP that rings busy for 20 minutes before a user can connect. A good rule of thumb is to have enough lines to support 25%-30% of your userbase being connected at any one time. Keep good logs of connect times and if you need more lines, buy them!
2) Provide good service. People will stick with the ISP that provides good service to user's problems, even if it's slightly more than the ISP down the road. Get a good ISP management tool that makes handling your radius/dual-up authentication, e-mail and other services easy and hire a couple of minimum wage people with half a brain to field "1st Level" calls -- high school students would be perfect in this area. That'll take care of 90% of your problems with users who most likely can't type their password or fiddled with their settings. Turnover in these jobs is high, so make sure you have a dummy-proof system that makes training a new hire easy. There are many freeware FAQ/Knowledge Base applications out there to automate this. The one application you DO NOT want to use is ISP Power no matter what their salesman says.
3) Have a solid person or persons behind the technology side of things. Either do it yourself if you have the knowledge, hire someone knowledgable or contract out the work (what I do part-time). Corporate IT is a lot different than ISP IT. Hire someone who knows routers, Radius, etc.. They need to be articulate becuase you'll have an uphill fight with the local teleco for both your frame connections and your Dial-In BRIs. Remeber that local Telecos push their own ISP service and you will not get good support from them if you're an ISP. You need to have someone prepared for a long drawn-out battle who can provide sound answers and be able to monitor and gather data on bandwidth and performance with which to bombard the teleco's tech support. The first words out of their mouth will be "Do you have your router configured properly" and will hammer this at you until you prove conclusively that it's not your router. You need to pick a platform and stay committed to it. Pick an e-mail server that is EASY to configure and maintain. MDaemon for NT/2000 and Qmail for Linux/Unix/BSD are good choices. Pick a hardware vendor you can have a good relationship with. 3Com is an excellent choice for ISP type hardware. Very few ISPs needs the power of Cisco equipment.
4) Take security seriously. Your 31337 Skriptors love to find ISPs with little thought to security or else security that has gone lax. Enforce a password policy, keep good logs and have monitoring systems up and running. Have a zero tolerance policy for spammers and other crackers. Invest in at least a minimal firewall setup for your servers. Spend the time to learn the Unix tools for firewalling or look at a good NT package such as BlackIce (again depending on chosen platform).
You can still be very successful with dial-up ISPs. Broadband will eventually either become cheaper allowing local ISPs to compete in that area or the government will eventually crack those markets open. It's just a matter of time.
One last thing, offer Front Page extension support! I can hear the booing from the
Some people take their .sig way too seriously
- Speak to your local telephone company at length. Ask them questions like "how old is your wiring", "do you support channelized E-1 lines for 56k dialup", "do you use load coils to extend your reach", and "what kind of distance charge do you have for bringing in a data connection"?
- You must be a very, very patient person. Be prepared to work long hours with the telephone company and your data connection provider. Be prepared to have them give you conflicting information. Be prepared for your local telephone company to pass the buck for connection difficulties to you. Be prepared to call your local telephone company on the carpet.
-
Ask your data provider and your telco to provide you with their tech support hours. Ask them for direct phone numbers and contact names. If they limit their hours, ask them if they have extended support options.
-
Get to know all of your service representatives on a first-name basis. Send them Christmas cards. Be nice to them. You may need to call in favors some time at 3:30 in the morning when your data circuit dies and you have to call their tech support.
-
Expect to spend more money initially than you bring in. Do not expect your business to pay for itself in under twelve months, meaning have at least a twelve months' supply of operating capital available (the more, the better.)
- Suscribe to your competitor's service. You have to know how they perform, they set the standard which you must at least meet, or exceed.
- Give referral credits. Give a $5.00 discount on a month's service to anyone who refers a friend to your service.
- Pinch your pennies (or your five cent pieces
;).) You do not want to be a dot bomb. Have a three year business plan in place when you start up, stick to it.
- You are a utility, not a service. In the rural area where I live I advised the small startup ISP to sell themselves as a utility, meaning they are more like a cable company or a satellite TV provider than a service. In my opinion this helps to foster a "must have" idea in customer's minds.
- No one ever brings in a television to their cable company office saying "my TV is not working, what is wrong with your service", but they'll do it to you with their computers. Be prepared to answer all sorts of ridiculous questions, face all sorts of ridiculous situations, and have at least five percent of your neighbors actively hating you.
:)
- Get an unlisted telephone number. People you do not know will be calling you at home at 4 AM, screaming in your ear, MY SERVICE IS NOT WORKING.
- If you are starting with yourself as the only employee, be prepared to forgo a social life. Search "monasteries, coping skills, celibacy" on Yahoo. Implement their suggestions.
- Know your equipment. Be prepared to study, study, study. Neither your telephone company nor your data provider are likely to be experts on the equipment you purchase, so be prepared to be on your own in configuring equipment. Before you buy, see if your telco has any prefered RAS equipment. As a suggestion, see if the equipment provider will work with your telco in configuring equipment.
- Find a support group. Get in touch with a few other ISP's not in your area. Use newgroups. Keep on good terms with knowledgable friends.
- Know your local laws regarding Internet and telecommunications. Get a user agreement, have it gone over by an attorney, and enforce it rigidly.
- Finally, never turn down a prescription for Prozac. Prozac is your friend. Prozac makes it better. Prozac may keep you from strangling the next guy who walks in and asks "I just bought a Commodore 64 at a rummage sale, and I cannot wait for you to connect it to the Internet."
:)
- HEY, which reminds me of one more suggestion -- know your limits. Are you going to try to connect any DOS machines? What about Macintosh? How slow of a modem is acceptable?
:)
Think it over, carefully. It's not a living, it's a lifestyle. Go with God.Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
That said, if you do want to do it, first thing you'll need to do is make sure your business plan will be profitable. I know it's tedious, but sit down in front of a spreadsheet program and work it all out: hard questions include:
Now assuming you've asked yourself the difficult questions and got satisfactory answers, go out and find yourself a good accountant or at least someone who'll take care of the day-to-day finances for you. If you're a scatterbrained geek like I, then you'll have to reel in some favours perhaps. I use my wife for that sort of thing - it works quite well ;)
Then, and only then, do you start to work out your network map, and do all the fun stuff. Don't be a Dot Com ;)
Note: I've been brainstorming while writing this so there will be a lot I've missed out. I've rescued and set up ISPs and businesses before, some of which have succeeded and some of which have failed. I speak from experience of 1991 through to the present, so don't take this as a base course in setting up a business ;) - usual #include <disclaimer.h> I'm afraid ;)))
Joel.
Smegma.
There are several companies to whom you can farm out your dial up service to. They even take care of all the tech support for you which is by far the biggest pain in the ass. You get charged about $10/per customer to use their phone lines and tech support droids. That way you only have to worry about a pipe for your servers and high speed bandwidth (DSL/Cable) start up costs [which can be substantial]. Technically you could run your whole operation off of one box (I used to know of a small shop that did so years ago) although I wouldn't recommend it. When it comes to your servers think redundancy, redundancy redundancy! It's going to be tough for the little guy just starting out but there are areas that are more rural areas that are under serviced or have no service at all by the big boys. This would be your best bet I think. Signing up companies for domain and web site hosting should be your cash cow. The dial up folks won't make you rich but companies you get signed up should help alot. Have fun!!!
G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
My point is that being an ISP is a BUSINESS, not a tech job. Trained monkeys can (almost) do the tech work, especially now that things are SOOOO easy. Hopefully, you can get funding and business people on board to run it. Business concerns are primary, tech concerns are either secondary (or even tertiary). And, hopefully your local telco or other local ISP's aren't better at running an ISP business than you are, or they'll kill you off....
Nope, as one who has lost major money, it isn't worth it....
"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
Hmm a limited (downtown only???) wireless ISP would rock, and would probably be your best bet for leapfroging the established players, as even in Cable/DSL there are some very large players, but wireless is still untapped(for the most part)
I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
Charge a nominal monthly rate for the first three. Lump the other two into your monthly cost. Of course you must have automated credit card billing.
Offer 24/7 toll-free tech support. Keep the call center well-staffed and don't punish/reward the support staff based on how long it takes to complete a call. Integrate the web and email support services. Setup a support evaluation survey that gives people points towards freebies if they complete the survey. Track this info like all hell. That costs a lot, obviously, but it'll be a very good selling point.
Your advantage over the Big Guys will come from offering services they don't offer at comparable rates with friendly, effective technical support. There's not much else to an ISP.
Oh yeah, game servers, irc servers, news servers.
To start a successful ISP you'll need a time machine that can transport you back 4-6 years. And going six years back might not even be enough. The biz is locked up now and the consolidation is in process. It's completely the wrong time to try to start one up. Unless you've got a source for cheap wholesale bandwidth and are way, way out in the hinterland somewhere that AOL, MSN, and Juno don't have a local number.