"One-Click" Patent Takes a Hit in Japan

natet writes "The Japan Patent Office once again shows it knows technology. They recently informed Amazon that unless Amazon can show them differently, they will reject the "One-Click" patent on the grounds of prior art. " So there are sane patent offices out there. On an almost completely offtopic and unrelated note, Hemos and I are planning on being in Japan for the Tokyo LinuxWorld in a few weeks, so I'll see you guys there. Bring translators and we can talk about anime ;)

Comments

Re:This is all getting silly

[Anonymous Coward]

But the different standards for patents in different countries isn't something we need in this day and age where products compete in a global free market.

This is WRONG !!!

I'm a citizen of France, and more and more a citizen of Europe nowadays. Around here, all the LUGs and a lot of individuals are fighting (lobying) together against the establishment of an international patent office (==an american rooted patent office), in fact we are also fighting with succes to make Europe realise (==vote) that one cannot patent software

We are living in a global market, we are not dumb enough to deny this, but what we do not accept is the way that you north americans consider patents.

I think it's now a well understood point that patents (at least in north america) are not anymore a way to developp researsh (as it was and should be) but more a way to protect a market segment for companies that have the money to inforce them.

Aroud here we think (even if it may seem hypocritic) that we would rather NOT inforce ANY patent than depend on an international patent office. An international patent office would imply that only the richest companies would be able to survive. And since such an office would probably be driven by american economy that would mean the not-so-long-term end of any real new buizeness rooted locally. And guess what : we also like to change our ideas into money...

Capitalism is NOT the only way. Try to put that in your heads !

This was the .2euros of the average french geek...

Bezos' standpoint.

[Matt2000]

It seems that perhaps Amazon's CEO has come to the same conclusion.

Or perhaps he just realized his company's valuation is a joke.

Everyone's Attacking on the Prior Art Front

[Greyfox]

I wonder what it would take to attack a patent on "So obvious and trivial that when we told college CS freshmen a patent had been granted on it, 9 out of 10 of them started laughing hysterically because they thought we were joking." The trivial stuff tends to be the hardest to find prior art for, but that doesn't mean that patents should have been granted on it.

Re:Everyone's Attacking on the Prior Art Front

[swinge]

The "obvious to a practioner of the art" clause does *not* require prior art. That's the point of it, so obvious that it does not require prior art. With complicated things, of course prior art is compelling, but it is not a requirement.

Software art is the art of creating abstractions of the real world. If there is something in the real world ("nice to see you again, put this on my tab") which is prior art, it should be prior art for a software related patent. That will kill 99% of software patents, as it should.

Amazon... Here's the book...

[Misch]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568843224/ o/qid=989937860/sr=2-2/102-2340656-1796903

Stop stealing ideas from the books on your shelves and trying to patent them as your own!

Bad Amazon! *smack*

US-Japan reciprocity

[rneches]

The US and most industial nations have treaties that give patents issued in one contry certain legal viability in others. For instance, most contries recognize the legitimacy of US patents and trademarks, and will uphold them even if it is not registered in their own IP system. The WTO also provides for some additional legal reciprocity between its signatories.

Could this ruling actually be in violation with treaties signed with the US and the WTO? I Hope not, but if it is, I hope Japan will hold its ground. A concervative aporach to patents is the only way to insure that they will actually do what they are supposed to - encourage inovation, not protect (and indirectly subsidize) research investments.

--

Differences Between US & Japanese Patents

[PhotonSphere]

Japan has always (always being since I took my first economics course in college) had a different attitude concerning patents. While the US seems to use patents to "protect" US inventions for long periods of time, Japanese Patents are valid for much shorter periods, encouraging the filing companies to hurry up and do something with their new technology before that company loses exclusivity of that knowledge (18 months).

Challenges to patents are also handled differently... Unlike in the U.S., a challenge to a patent's validity is not brough before the courts, but instead directly to the Japanese Patent Office.

Other Glaring Differnces:

Patents granted on the basis of first-to-file?
US: Yes
Japan: No

Filing permitted in any language?
US: Yes
Japan: No

Are patent applications published?
US: No. Kept secret until patent is granted.
Japan: Yes. 18 months after filing.

Patent Term:
US: 20 years
Japan: 15 years

Pre-grant opposition?
US: No
Japan: Yes

I think that the USPO might be able to take a couple of hints from the JPO...

Yes!

[ackthpt]

Ok, that makes for marginal signs of intelligence in europe, and a critical mind in Tokyo. Meanwhile, in the U.S. Patent Office:

Smythe: Hi, I've got a patent I'd like to run by you.
Wossname: Watcha got?
Smythe: It's for a one-click sequential dynamic bread slicer with a net to catch the slices at the output end. I calls it a NET strategy.
Wossname: I say! That's enough to cripple the entire computer hardware and software industry if it's broad enough!
Smythe: You think I should limit the scope of me patent?
Wossname: Oh, no! This is exactly what we live for. Now have you researched it?
Smythe: Well... I didn't see anything like it in my 1906 History of the World, volumes 1-12, except 7 which I've lined the bird cage with.
Wossname: Sounds good enough. Patent granted.
Smythe: Thanks, Guv!
Wossname: Just remember who your friends are! *wink* *wink*

--
All your .sig are belong to us!

This is all getting silly

[sharkticon]

First off, I applaud the Japanese patent office for forcing Amazon to actually prove that their patent has innovation rather than assuming it as the American office did.

But the different standards for patents in different countries isn't something we need in this day and age where products compete in a global free market. It costs companies more, adds complexity and creates legal problems.

What we need is to standardise on an international patent body which can allow patents to be filed once and once only, and be internationally binding. This way both everyone benefits.

While I think this is a great idea in such a market, I would only want it if it wasn't based upon the USPTO. America has shown itself time and time again to be the enemy of progress and technological innovation, and the EU and Japan have fostered a more balanced approach to what has become a critical concern to companies.

So well done Japan, and I hope that organisations like the WTO start considering patents in a global manner. Having a global body regulating patents can only be a good thing for corporations competing in the free market.

Agreeing with Bezos, partially

[Chakat]

Bezos proposes that as a start the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office recognizes that "business method and software patents are fundamentally different than other kinds of patents" and proposes a retroactive "fast patent" system for these types of patents, limiting them to a 3- to 5-year lifespan, as opposed to the standard 17-year cycle.

Interestingly, Bezos' "fast patents' would include a short public comment period beforehand whereby the Internet community could "provide prior art references to the patent examiners at a time when it could really help," Bezos said.

Though I strongly disagree with Bezos' and Amazon's position on one-click, I agree with him here as far as a fair compromise to the utter mess of the current patent system. Yes, a novel business plan should be rewarded, but not as much as the standard patent amount. If we would have had this system in place, one click would be a distant memory, either through prior art challenges or expiration, instead of the fighting that could go on for more than a decade to come.

As a postscript, when does the patent on LZW expire? That's one patent I won't miss at all.