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Earth Day And Lifecycle Environmental Costs

Posted by timothy on from the hi-mom dept.

MountainLogic writes: "With Earth Day April 22 now is a good time to Ask SlashDot reader what are you doing to keep mother earth alive and well. Sure, every cube prisoner has a recycling box under their desk, but the decisions that technical people make can have wide reaching effects on a company and the environment. How often are the environmental effects of a technical decision discussed? How can environmental consequences be brought onto the table? Do formal procedure such as ISO14000 help or are they just full employment acts for consultants? Is there a better way to evaluate the full lifecycle environmental cost of a product? Is it as simple as each of us putting in the extra effort to find greener solutions?"

28 comments

  1. Re:What I do: by ksheff · · Score: 2

    So do you throw the paper cup away or do you recycle that too? =) I've recycled aluminum cans (or anything else for that matter) not because I have some desire to protect the environment. I am a cheap-skate. [I drive a 10yr old econobox because it gets good mileage and doesn't cost me much to operate it. Some enviromentalists see SUVs as Global Warming Vehicles, but I see them as vehicles that rape and pillage ones bank account. Being a cheap bastard is another reason why I run Linux.] To me throwing away something that could be used again is a waste of time, energy, and money. That and I could get paid for turning in bottles and cans. =) Seriously, I do think it's a shame to thow something away when it could be used for something else. That's also why I turn things into Goodwill too.

    --
    the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
  2. what I did for earth day by ksheff · · Score: 2

    Nothing.

    As far as I see it, the Earth itself can screw up the environment better than I could ever hope to. That being said, I still try to keep things clean because:

    • I'd rather live in a nice clean place than a shithole. Unfortunately, other lots of other people don't see it that way and there isn't a license to kill idiots. [and I don't have the money to move]
    • it would take more time, energy, and money for someone else to clean up after myself than it would if I just did it. I'd rather have those resources go to something useful.
    But that has more to do with not being a lazy slob than anything else.

    I suppose the closest thing I did that could be twisted into honoring Earth Day was listening to Blackened

    --
    the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    1. Re:what I did for earth day by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

      ksheff.... i got a question to ask you (about a comment you posted a some time's back... your friend who installed their own coke on tap system); can you email me?

      Thanks, martin.

      D.

      --
      You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
  3. Re:Plastic by ksheff · · Score: 3

    Gots to disagree with you on this one. Many landfills do not have adequate seepage protection at the ground level. As a result, many chemicals find their way down to the water table and end up contaminating the local water supply. Largely, this doesn't happen, but when it does the damage is fairly significant

    If the plastics were breaking down, that would be true. There is a prof in Arizona that's been doing landfill studies for years. He takes core samples from old landfills to see how the percentage of materials being thrown away changes over the years as well as how the materials behave in the landfill. According to him, paper takes up the most volume (50% or better in some cases) of any single material found in landfills. The percentage of plastic over the years has been decreasing since they have been getting stronger and thinner. What is really interesting is that in a good landfill, there is very little decay. He's pulled out newspapers and hot dogs from the 60s that haven't changed much since they were thrown away. In the cases where water and oxygen were able to get to the materials, it's paper and other organic materials that are decaying and causing inks and other chemicals to move into the water systems, not the plastics.

    I'm waiting for the day that materials separation technology becomes good enough that people will want to dig up old landfills to extract the paper and other metals for recycling. Will there be protesters opposing the strip mining of landfills?

    --
    the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
  4. Garbagesorting: 4 trashcans by Accumulator · · Score: 1
    In my city, we have 4 different garbage-cans for 4 different kinds of trash. Roughly translated, this is:
    • Left-overs (traditional garbage)
    • Environmental (plastics, glass, metal etc.)
    • Paper
    • Toxic (a smaller can)

    When all households has the 3 big cans standing out to all times, there gets many garbagecans around. Actually this destroys much of the view. Imagine looking at a little road with 5 small houses on each side, and a total of 30 garbagecans!

    But on the good side: It works. The only strange thing is that they have no sorting for biological garbage, trash that rottens to earth. Because that is the most usual garbagesorting at other places.

    Well, if now they could only fix the high-traffic dust in the middle of the town :-\

    --
    "The assembler gave birth to the compiler. Now there are ten thousand languages." - Tao of Programming
    1. Re:Garbagesorting: 4 trashcans by darrick · · Score: 1
      > The only strange thing is that they have no sorting for biological garbage, trash that rottens to earth.

      My wife and I run a website, Homestead.org, which is about self-sufficiency, growing your own food, living "simply", etc. Although we're living in the big city again, in an apartment, we do our little bit. Lots of our organic garbage such as veggie scraps, fruit cores, etc., get put in a large plastic box out on the balcony and allowed to rot. Layer the waste with dirt (from somewhere not contaminated with chemicals; go take a Sunday country drive and come back with a few shovelfulls of dirt from the boonies!); aka some waste, then some dirt, then more waste, then more dirt, etc. The dirt provides bacteria and fungi to break down the waste. And, voila! Your own simple compost bin. (Don't let it fill with water, though. Ick!)

  5. Plastic by PD · · Score: 1

    I use plastic for everything I can, and I throw it away when I'm done with it.

    This is NOT a troll. Here's my reasoning, step by step:

    1) Plastic is made from oil.
    2) We use oil to make plastic, and to burn.
    3) Oil that is not used to make plastic will be burned. The more oil made into plastic, the less will be burned.
    3) burning oil puts carbon into the air.
    4) throwing plastic into landfills puts carbon into the ground.
    5) The carbon came out of the ground to begin with.
    6) Therefore, throwing away plastic helps the environment.

    other points:

    a) landfill space objection: this isn't an environmental objection, it's an economic one. Cities pay money to landfill stuff. Environmentally, mother nature will treat a pile of plastic covered with dirt as just another hill. Yawn.
    b) using paper: This will remove carbon from the air, but unless you throw the paper away after you use it, you risk putting those carbons back into the air. Paper is fine if you don't recycle it.
    c) aluminum. Use it, recycle it. Standard wisdom applies to that.

    --
    If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    1. Re:Plastic by PD · · Score: 1

      Your reducto ad adsurdum argument falls flat. While I truly love a good steak far far more than I love a good salad, one must stick to valid arguments to make the case for your favorite dinner...

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    2. Re:Plastic by PD · · Score: 2

      Counterpoints:

      Plastic seepage: Not an expert on degradation of plastic, but is it really that horrible? You might have a point there, but without some data I can't decide either way.

      Incineration: This is the wrong thing to do. Our big problem now is the buildup of CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere. Burning plastic makes that problem even worse. My solution of landfilling plastic tries to fix that by putting the carbon that came from the ground back into the ground.

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    3. Re:Plastic by PD · · Score: 2

      Someone marked me as a troll? Idiot. That's actually how I think.

      Some people hate you if you disagree with their stupidity that everything must be recycled. It's too hard to come up with an argument, but it's easy to click a little checkbox and mod me down. Cowardly.

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    4. Re:Plastic by The+Iconoclast · · Score: 2

      I wish there was a WRONG button in the moderator options, because this post's parent is wrong. Of course, never rely on /. to be correct on any techinical matter whatsoever.

      The fact is plastic and all other hydrocarbon products are distilled from the stuff they drill up. Oil refineries are basically big still s for the hydrocarbons. You heat up your crude and the more volitile compounds rise to the top. Those tall towers at oil refineries are where this process takes place. You fraction off the stuff near the top to make jet fuel, then little lower down to make gasoline, then lower still to make lubricant type oils and at the bottom is the stuff for tar. Some where in there is the correct level to pull off material to make plastic from.

      Long story short: plastic comes from a different part of the crude oil than the stuff you burn.

      --
      Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
    5. Re:Plastic by raoulduck · · Score: 1

      Most refineries also include hydrogenation units to recycle some of the heavier catalytic products into lighter more profitable products.

      The "lights", such as propane, butane, etc. are fed into reactor units and cooked into styrene monomers and polyols used for plastics feedstocks.

      Almost nothing is wasted. The flares you see are maintained for emergency purposes. If an accident takes place, process gasses are dumped into the emergency flare and burned off. The small flame you usually see is maintained as an ignition source.

      --
      "Life is a sandwich I did not pay for" - Zippy
    6. Re:Plastic by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

      And they say you're a troll! :-)

      I'm wondering when someone will think so of me too...

      Dancin Santa

    7. Re:Plastic by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 2

      throwing plastic into landfills puts carbon into the ground.

      But it does not return it in any way that the ground can reclaim it within the next 100 million years. That's the problem.

      Other than that, plastic is a great material that's immensely versatile and can actually lower the total amount of waste produced just as a byproduct of its usefulness.

      Environmentally, mother nature will treat a pile of plastic covered with dirt as just another hill.

      Gots to disagree with you on this one. Many landfills do not have adequate seepage protection at the ground level. As a result, many chemicals find their way down to the water table and end up contaminating the local water supply. Largely, this doesn't happen, but when it does the damage is fairly significant.

      The best long term solution for handling garbage is incineration, but that too is objectionable for the amount of pollutants released into the air. Improvements are being made, though.

      aluminum. Use it, recycle it.

      Stack it in a big pyramid in your office.
      Build the Great Wall of Coke.
      Make ninja stars that really work.

      Dancin Santa

    8. Re:Plastic by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 2

      it's paper and other organic materials that are decaying and causing inks and other chemicals to move into the water systems, not the plastics.

      This is what I meant, if I wasn't clear in the original post. Plastics to not break down at any measurable rate fast enough to contaminate the table water. It is the contents of the plastics, along with other organic materials that may seep into the ground water. The large plastic seal underneath the trash may prevent most of the chemicals from draining, but then you come up with the problem:

      What is really interesting is that in a good landfill, there is very little decay

      In a way, this is the essence of the problem when it comes to landfills. This lack of decay is the main reason new landfills must be opened. If the trash would biodegrade, landfills could be sustained for a much longer lifespan.

      Dancin Santa
      Still in favor of incineration

  6. Kent Brockman by sharkey · · Score: 2

    A quick quote from the Emmy-winning host of Smart Line:

    "Well, if 70-degree days in the middle of winter are the `price' of car pollution, you'll forgive me if I keep my old Pontiac."

    --

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  7. Plastic good, paper bad by raoulduck · · Score: 1

    Plastic or Paper? Choose plastic. Paper destroys forests, kills rivers, and pollutes the air. When paper is processed the lignin (wood fiber) is separated from the wood sugars. Those sugars are washed into the water and promote bacterial and algal growth. When the microorganisms decay, they suck up all the oxygen in streams and kill all the fish. The air emissions from paper mills contain lots of H2SO4, the water emissions from the paper bleaching process include dioxins and chlorinated organics. Petrochemical plants are actually less polluting than paper mills. And you don't cut down trees to make plastic. Most petrochemical plants use oil efficently. The waste products from the cracking process are usually used as feedstock for another product or burned as fuel. Raymond

    --
    "Life is a sandwich I did not pay for" - Zippy
  8. What do you do with a drunken landfill? by The+Queen · · Score: 2

    Will there be protesters opposing the strip mining of landfills?

    Golly! What will become of our lovely park?

    "Smear'd with gumms of glutenous heat, I touch..." - Comus, John Milton

    --

    The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
  9. How I save energy as a sysadmin ... by OmegaDan · · Score: 2

    When we get hacked, I maje sure to answer "yes" to power savings mode when reinstalling solaris.

    --
    Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
  10. Stay of the grass. by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2
    what are you doing to keep mother earth alive and well.

    I walk only on sidewalks.

    (Adapted from Charles Schultz's Peanuts)
    --

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  11. Re:Argument i heard by stilwebm · · Score: 2

    I recall in high school a group of friends who represented Canada in Model UN. They pitched for pro global warming accords. Among the benefits they included - extending the warmth north would introduce low cost beach resorts and other great economic benefits to Canada.

  12. Re:Argument i heard by Starbreeze · · Score: 1
    I've also heard arguments that it doesn't actually exist if you look at the temperature cycles from way back.

    I read the hole in the ozone layer is actually slowly closing up though. So maybe we're not that bad off :P

  13. 10 things YOU can do... by Kraft · · Score: 1

    ...for the environment, specifically to reduce Global Warming (this list is from www.hotearth.net)

    Actually, I think nr. 1 should be to kill a human. Seriously, this is the nr. 1 best thing you can do for the environment. And make sure it's someone from a developed country, where we polute the most.
    No, I don't hope you actually do it, but I wonder what polution would look like, if we were just 1 billion people on earth (not to mention problems with overcrowding, access to clean water, food shortage etc). Well, here goes:

    10 - Plant two or more trees around your home.
    9 - Put energy-saving lightbulbs in the three most used lights in your house.
    8 - When you replace your refrigerator, buy a high-efficiency model.
    7 - Buy food and other products with reusable or recyclable packaging.
    6 - When you replace your washing machine, buy a low-energy, low-water use model.
    5 - Install a solar thermal system to help provide your hot water.
    4 - Recycle all of your homeís newsprint, cardboard, glass, and metal.
    3 - Leave your car at home two days a week.
    2 - Insulate your home, tune up your furnace, and install efficient shower heads.
    1 - When you buy your next car, purchase a fuel-efficient model that gets up to 32 mpg or more.

    -Kraft

    --

    -Kraft
    Live and let live
  14. Argument i heard by OpCode42 · · Score: 2

    I once heard an argument saying global warming was *good* thing...

    We burn fossil fuels to heat ourselves when its cold. Burning them makes the Earth heat up. So if we burn all fossil fuels now, by the time they're all gone the Earth will have heated up so much we won't need them any more.

    Someone's logic chip isn't properly seated...

  15. 10 reasons to follow those suggestions by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

    10 - Plant two or more trees around your home.
    Trees add value to your home and are attractive. Your kids can carve their sweetheart's initials in the trunks later.

    9 - Put energy-saving lightbulbs in the three most used lights in your house.
    Fluorescents last longer and save money in the long run. You can get fluorescents with pleasing hues nowadays (no more freaky bluish light with constant buzzing).

    8 - When you replace your refrigerator, buy a high-efficiency model.
    No sense in driving your power bill up for no reason. The fridge is always on and always using electricity. You might as well get an efficient one (you're replacing it anyway).

    7 - Buy food and other products with reusable or recyclable packaging.
    I reuse my Safeway plastic bags as trashbags. It saves having to buy separate trashbags.

    6 - When you replace your washing machine, buy a low-energy, low-water use model.
    Actually, front-loaded machines are pretty nice. They don't have an agitator, so there isn't anything inside the machine itself that can stretch and damage clothes. It also uses less water but manages to get clothes just as clean. Save money on clothes, save money on the water bill.

    5 - Install a solar thermal system to help provide your hot water.
    Disclaimer: Only if you live somewhere this could actually work.

    4 - Recycle all of your homeís newsprint, cardboard, glass, and metal.
    Newspaper can be used to soak up oil used for deep frying. Cardboard boxes can be used for various things. Glass jars make great pencil holders. Metal... Well, if you can't figure out what to do with metal, it may just be best to take it to the curb.

    3 - Leave your car at home two days a week.
    Hell, work from home! The reduced stress will be great for your health.

    2 - Insulate your home, tune up your furnace, and install efficient shower heads.
    Except for the shower head point, you save money on heating and cooling costs by keeping your home properly insulated and your heaters/coolers working in good condition.

    1 - When you buy your next car, purchase a fuel-efficient model that gets up to 32 mpg or more.
    Or just buy a big SUV and reap the windfall of everyone else lowering the demand for oil. :-)

    Dancin Santa

  16. Re:Hogwash by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

    to absorb all the CO2 being produced, 90% of the earth's surface would have to be covered in plant life.

    Pure bullshit. Pontificate all you like, but without documentation, it's all just hand waving.

    Dancin Santa

  17. What I do: by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 2

    I didn't recycle aluminum cans before, but I do now. I pour the contents into a paper cup and toss the can in the Recycle bin right there in the kitchen.

    I also leave my computer on 24/7 because I know that boot time is perhaps the most power intensive part of running the computer.

    I leave the lights on for the same reason, they are fluorescent so turning them off and then back on would just waste power.

    I also post inanities to /. because it saves power here. My posts take up space on some other company's server, so I really don't sweat it.

    Dancin Santa

  18. What do I do? by ArtEnvironment · · Score: 1
    What do I do? I (volunteer) work with an Arts & Environmental Nonprofit 501(c)3 organization called CARP, the Creative Artists Resource Project. Our major project is the Please Take M.E. (Materials Exchange) which we run in conjunction with a group called the Philadelphia Dumpster Divers. In the years 1998-2000 we saved approximately 7 tons of unwanted stuff from the waste stream with only a 3000 sq. foot space to run the Materials Exchange. We've been homeless (the organization, not personally) for little over a year and have finally gotten a small building for office space just THIS MONTH so we'll be ramping up activity greatly and supporting efforts both creative and technical in any way we can not to mention distributing information on arts and environmental techniques and ideas as much as we can.

    You can find out more about us at our temporary website, which of course needs some serious updating. There are some good links to some articles, a few of our members sites and a great exhibition we had at the local EPA office.

    If you want to know more feel free to email me and ask away! I'm also interested in all sorts of technology and communication issues that I feel suitably fit our purpose also (you can read a posting I just made today to our local LUG mailing list about some of this stuff.)

    [Plea to the Slashdot crowd: we are in need of just one or two decent computers or parts and peripherals & office equipment which will seriously help us to ramp up activity and gain productivity again. If you have anything which you might like to donate please drop me an email -- remember we're a non-profit so it's tax deductable too! 8)]

    --
    This is a brand new .sig. This is also a brand new Slashdot User Account, although this is NOT a brand new Slashdot User. This is this account's first post. Does that make this a 'fp!'? 8)