Slashdot Mirror
UK Government Locks Out Non-MS Browsers
Joel Rowbottom writes: "The UK government's new gateway.gov.uk site, which is being trumpeted in advance of the forthcoming General Election, has been revealed to only work on Microsoft browsers under Windows - meaning you must use IE5.01 or above to be able to access government content, or do your tax returns online: no MacOS, no Netscape, and certainly no Linux. Who can have developed this site for the government? It's Microsoft of course, on their .NET platform! There's a Register article about it, but for a more extensive look LinuxUser magazine in the UK have written a article on it which is available as PDF here."
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Slashdot used to be a place where a sufficiently egregious screwup in a story would result in a prompt update and mea culpa from the responsible editor.
This no longer seems to be the case.
I have my sortings set to "highest rated first" because a red herring story will usually have a prompt comment correcting the issue and getting moderated up to 5. When discussion closes on a story, however, it gets served as static HTML, and unsorted, and such comments no longer show up at the top. This is why updates are necessary, but /.'s
editors are getting increasingly lax about
getting these done, some editors more than
others (coughMichaelcough).
This needs to change. Editors, please, start updating your stories, even when it means wearing a paper bag for a few days. If you don't, the "new journalism" will no longer have any advantage over the old.
Was Young's comment, not about predatory monolopolies, but instead:
"...our governmental infrastructures should be permanently open to competitive bid..."
Yes, Microsoft is the standard, and I'll even give (Linux zealot that I am) that IE is a better browser than Netscape4.x/6, and there's some good tools there on IIS (wealth of MCSE's, etc).
BUT, the truth in that statement - there should be a bid - is beyond petty squabbles about the better OS. If MS really does present the better solution, it should be given the chance to prove it, rather than being implemented because its the "default".
It makes me mad as a Linux advocate. I'd like to "lose" fair and square. If I can't write a good response to an RFP, if I can't get the people and the code running, then I deserve to lose. But I doubt anyone really put any thought into it. We need [foo], let's put it on IIS. Call MS and get a nice site license.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Since we're referring to a Reg article on this, here is another dealing with the reactions of Opera Software
Basically, they are going to take issue with this, directly with Andrew Pinder, the UK "e-envoy."
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
"in order to meet the British government's target date... Dell and Microsoft worked feverishly to meet a blistering three-week rollout schedule for the first phase."
If they got the first draft to work in three weeks, they're doing a lot better than anybody I've ever worked with. Our stuff doesn't work with ANY browser that fast.
What's your damage, Heather?
OK lets take a look at quotes from theregister article "we checked it with Netscape 6 on Windows, and got in without trouble". And it's not the web site, it's the digital certificates that cause problems "Please note that if you wish to enrol for services that require a digital certificate, you may not be able to use the full range of browsers listed above. For example, Equifax certificates can currently only be used with Internet Explorer 5.01 or later (they do not work on any version of the Netscape browser); ChamberSign certificates can be used with both Nestcape Navigator and Internet Explorer, except they are not currently supported on version 6 of the Netscape browser. Please check your certificate provider's web site for more information about which browsers they support." As for saying you can't do your tax return on-line in Netscape? Bollocks. It uses straight HTTPS. I've just completed mine. Did any of you think to check for yourselves? I doubt it, you just saw "it was written by Microsoft" and your knees starting jerking.
"Most people use IE anyway (let's face it...there aren't too many options)"
Most people in the UK are also white. Maybe the the govt should prevent the east indians from some things too. Maybe it should prevent them using convenient services and instead make them wait in lines instead. Sorry only white people can use this web site the rest of you can haul your assess off to the courthouse.
The Govt is there to serve everybody not just the majority. The rest of the people are citizens too arent they? Why didn't they insist on using cross platform browsers on the contract?
War is necrophilia.
This development is particularly frustrating, since up to now UK .gov sites have generally been very standards compliant. In fact the open.gov.uk initiative even has a W3C standards statement. I quote:
"The most important aspect of publishing information on the internet is to ensure that it is available to all, not just a select few who happen to have the newest browser, all the latest plugins and a top of the range, superfast PC.
UK public sector information must be accessible, legible and fast to download."
And indeed, the vast majority of---
This may however have been an early design feature that has now been edited out; we checked it with Netscape 6 on Windows, and got in without trouble. But we've also heard from people who couldn't get in with 6, and earlier versions of Netscape, Opera (even 5.11 pretending to be IE) don't work. We've got one Mac user saying he got in with IE 5 - we don't know how either.
It's not a big, public launch, and like any launch of a web-based product, you're going to see browser incompatibilities. If my company could get back every dime spent on dealing with the differences between IE and Netscape, we'd be in a hell of a lot better market position.
If MS somehow tries to maintain that it will always require Windows/IE, then you've got a problem. But this, this is nothing yet.
B1ood
Note to self: pasty-skinned programmers ought not stand in the Mojave desert for multiple hours. -- John Carmack
Running Explorer 5.1 preview for OSX seems to let you in quite nicely. No sense of not working at all. I could test more, but fact checking isn't the readers job...
...even worse, Blair let an MS shop in the gov make the decisions and axe all the free software shops.
oh well, it might be a freebie now, but man will MS bend them over in the coming years once they're hooked.
very annoying to see all the posts that say "read the article! it works for me!" obviously, you didn't read the article, cuz it states that SOME parts work with SOME certs on SOME versions of netscape on SOME platforms.
sheesh.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
I will never pay taxes in the UK.
Course, I live the the sovern country of Texas!
Man im in a good mood...
..after an European Parliament report on Echelon which "recommends all Europeans use encryption and open source software." Here is the article.
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I hit the karma cap, now do I gain enlightenment?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
The web is about standards. Those things can be built for 99% or even more of the netizens, if so wanted.
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I hit the karma cap, now do I gain enlightenment?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
People without computers also helped pay for the site. If Linux support is added, will you demand a tax refund for those who choose not to buy computers?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Keeping
The poster missed the fact that you can still use Opera for that website, as long as you set it to identify itself as MSIE5.
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Kiro
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
According to register, you CAN use Chambersign certificates and use Netscape 4.x. Please read the article.
Also, it's a step in the right direction. Having access to gov't services online is fantastic. And yes, not everybody can get to them, but with, what, 90% of people able to get to them online, that's a hell of a lot better than 100% of people standing in line.
I first went to the following site, as referenced below in the comments:h tm
http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/e-tax/checkbrw.
From there, it was clear that everything worked. I was only able to browse the subnet regarding the Self-Assesment Tax Return, which I am hardly eligible for (Living as I do in the US), but if I were British, I could almost certainly do what I needed to do.
From this I can only draw the following conclusion: M$ has set up a series of gateway sites which have no legitimate purpose whatsoever; instead, they appear to be clearly trying to force people to use their garbage. If only Tony Blair knew what a horrible mistake he has made...
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
Microsoft may not be very responsive to public opinion, but the British Government sure is. Democratic governments have to provide equal access to government services or they risk having a large group of pissed off voters on election day. Blair wants 100% of all government services online by 2005. As a Mac user (IE for Mac doesn't work either), I know I'd be pretty angry if I got left out in the cold.
Not only that, but the standard browser on the upcoming Symbian 3G cell phones will be Opera, not IE. Symbian looks to be a leader in that arena, so the majority of wireless users wouldn't be able to access government sites if this continued. Microsoft is going to have to buckle on this one and use open standards, guaranteed.
This
Right now, we're looking at an early roll-out of a sophisticated service that has incompatibility problems with some of the enormous range of computers out there. Of course Microsoft made sure it was most compatible with their software first. Nobody should be surprised that the M$ programmers did a better job with their own product. Despite the usual sentiment that they're forcing conversion, there really hasn't been any reason to call foul yet. There should be wider support with time, and let's keep in mind that the Government isn't forcing citizens to use the service. Most people use IE anyway (let's face it...there aren't too many options) and the government, with Microsoft's help, and a minimum of expense, has just begun to offer an extremely nice service to those people. Maybe they should have written their own client, which was non-platform reliant, but they managed to release the service earlier and cheaper by using preexisting technology and cutting out a fairly small (though vocal) segment of computer users.
My Karma is so good, I'm the Dalai Lama...or something.
The web site seems to just refuse to talk to people if they don't come from a Windows or MacOS machine. They could simply check for the certificates when they are needed, but they actually seem to check for the browser id string. What if Opera or Konqueror get the necessary certificates tomorrow? What if they already have them?
As for saying you can't do your tax return on-line in Netscape? Bollocks. It uses straight HTTPS. I've just completed mine. Did any of you think to check for yourselves? I doubt it, you just saw "it was written by Microsoft" and your knees starting jerking.
Maybe you just have a knee-jerk reaction when people criticize your favorite monopolist? You seem so far in the Windows world that you don't even notice the inconveniences Microsoft causes to competitors.