AT&T Files Patent Infringement Suit Against Microsoft

wiredog writes "The suit alleges Microsoft infringed on a patent for technology that reduces the size of computer sound files that contain voice recordings. The story, from Reuters, at the Washington Post." Well, I'm posting this because apparently everyone and their brother has decided to submit it. But, well, yeah. It's a compression codec. That crap shouldn't be patentable in the first place. Of course, in the US you can patent math.

Comments

Re:Patenting Math?

[Ed Avis]

Do you think that there is a net economic benefit from allowing IBM to patent this algorithm? Would compression codecs not be developed if patents were not available? Do the increased incentives outweigh the effects on competition and the risks for smaller developers?

I'm not saying there isn't a case to be made, but you have to balance both sides. The patent system is there solely 'to promote progress in science and the useful arts' (as the US Constitution puts it), so any granting of patents on algorithms must pass this test.

And since patent offices are unable to distinguish between 'difficult' things like codecs and trivial things like one-click (the criterion of 'obviousness' is not something a patent examiner understands very well), you have to ask whether we wouldn't be better off without patents on any field of software. Sure, in some cases there might be an economic loss because codecs might not be developed - although projects like Ogg Vorbis show that patents are not necessary to finance such research. But on balance I think it's clear that swpats do more harm than good.

You can't patent math.

[werdna]

This is a fine point, in practice, but a significant one at the end of the day. Notwithstanding the Federal Circuit's results in State Street Bank and AT&T v. Excel, it remains well-settled that you cannot patent a formula, mathematical algorithm or a law of nature. Each of these cases reaffirms this general principal of law.

That being said, it is likewise well-settled that the mere appearance or recitation of a formula, mathematical algorithm or law of nature in a patent claim does not invalidate the claim. What you can patent is a concrete application of these abstract ideas.

A patent directed to a novel catapult (assuming there were none in the prior art for the purpose of this example) can be described as a method for projecting massive objects through space with a parabolic trajectory. However, to be patentable, the claims must be directed to both the structure of the solution (the steps) and the context in which they are applied. A mere recitation of a method of using an inverse square law of physics would fail.

This is a fine point, of course -- good coverage can be obtained in practice going to the essence of the commercial benefit of a formula or law of physics. But the fact of the matter is that you can't patent math, even here in the United States of America.

Re:How did AT&T figure out MS infringed ?

[td]

It's not a requirement to sue that you have solid evidence of infringement. (For that matter, it's not even a requirement that you think they have.) If AT&T thinks MS might be infringing, they can sue and then find out -- civil litigants are required to make full disclosure of relevant information.

you're missing the issue

[joq]

They don't mean compression as in bzip or gzip, they've patented a method to lower the file size of audio which you can play on demand not bunzip or gunzip.

It's the comments like these that make me wonder how biased some people can be when dealing with reality surrounding these cases, so here's a scenario for you:

You create a file folder mechanism to store data. This system takes files and says stores them in the following order (using your login name) h a r d a k e r and by placing them this way saves x amount of space. Now you patent this since it saves space and is innovative. Along comes someone else and takes your entire idea and recreates it word for word except they don't use your name to store the data they use m i c r o s o m e t h i n g ...

Is it fair for them to take your work and do this? Sure they could create something similar but by ripping your work word for word without your permission their wrong plain and simply.

It's fun to have a laugh at the expense of others but in a situation like this where everyone is suing everyone else its only a matter of time before things become so full of misplaced regulations, someone will sue you literally saving a file. This is the scenario you want to avoid

Patenenting Compression Codecs

[StressedCoder]

Compression Codec's are absolutely something that should be patentable.

Yes, UniSys dropped the ball then behaved badly with LZW and GIF. Yes, it is often better to not patent a codec, and the Fauhenfoer (sp?) institute has a questionable claim on LAME because their patent only covers the aucoustic tables which LAME does not use, but that doesn't mean compression patents are bad.

Developing new compression codecs is hard work. It requires a great deal more mathematical ability than I or the general slashdot community posses. They are a form of math, but they are a form you must go looking for. You must run experiments, put in long hours, and do a lot of work to successful design a new compression codec. They do not jump out and say "here I am" to the causal practioner.

Patenting compression codecs protects the work and research of those who develop them. PhD. in computer science do not come cheap, and neither do grad assistants, sysadmins, numbers chruncers, and everything else required to keep a research institution operating. No patents, no more R&D. No more compression codecs. No nifty new toys like the web, 3D graphics, or most of the other major developments in computer science. No more Real or QuickTime because you could never recover your R&D investment. No more MPEG.

Are many, many software patents bad? Obviously. Are the all bad? Absolutely not. Not all code is obvious. Not all "simple" code is easily deduced. Research should be protected. The patent office is the problem, not the idea of software patents.

Re:Patenting Math?

[_xeno_]

In a way, though, it seems that patents do indeed encourage research...

After all, would PNG exist if Unisys hadn't tried to kill GIF? Would the zlib compress algorithm be developed if it weren't for software patents on other alogrithms? (From RFC #1951, "The format can be implemented readily in a manner not covered by patents," and, later, in the purpose section "The purpose of this specification is to define a lossless compressed data format that ... [c]an be implemented readily in a manner not covered by patents, and hence can be practiced freely[.]" And Ogg Vorbis is an attempt to create a audio codec not covered by the ... um, Fraven.. Frahuen... uh, the F whatever Institute's patents.

So it would seem that these patents do encourage innovation... to get around them!

Alarmist Nonsense

[peccary]

Research grants to universities, be they government grants or private grants, are not provided to purchase intellectual property. They are provided to advance the state of human knowledge.
It's interesting that you cite the web, for instance. Was the web developed in the course of establishing a patent? Hell no! How about the web browsers? NO again. How about other internet applications: email, netnews, file transfer, file sharing protocols like NFS or AFS. Are these patented? No. no, non, nyet. And yet they were developed anyway. Curious, isn't it?

It is not at all clear that even a perfectimplementation of the patent model would generate innovation in software more fairly and rapidly than would be the case if there were no software patents at all. When you consider that the patent office is so badly broken as it is, well, throwing the baby out with the bathwater is justified if I can't get rid of this fetid bathwater any other way.

math is to codec as chemistry is to pharmaceutical

[neo-phyter]

"That crap shouldn't be patentable in the first place. Of course, in the US you can patent math. " That's like saying that you shouldn't be able to patent a new pharmaceutical becuase you think it's silly to patent chemistry. Allan

Everyone's Forgotten

[Fat Rat Bastard]

... that Microsoft owns part of AT&T ($5 billion's worth at the time of the investment). *Not* a small chunk of change. Since M$'s investment was to grease the rails for its interactive TV inititive I wonder if this is a case of one hand (of AT&T) doesn't know what the other hand is doing. In any case, it paints a pretty interesting picture. You would think that M$ would have come to an agreement over licensing fees for the patents a long time ago to keep from pissing one of the largest cable operators in the country (thus, one of the largest potential customers for M$TV). Of course, without knowing all of the details I'm just speculating here, but it does seem like MS just may be being penny wise and pound stupid.

N.

If you don't have anything nice to say, say it often.

Read the patent yourself

[volume]

Decide for yourself. The patent is on the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office site

If you have problems with that just go to http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and search on American Telephone and Speech Coding for 1988.

Patent Claims

[Sodium Attack]

The patent seems to be US Reissue 32,580. (Of eight patents granted to AT&T on the date listed in the article, this is the only one remotely close to what is described.) Below are the claims, since the URL from the USPTO site is some ugly long thing that likely won't work if someone else tries to use it.

What is claimed is:

1. A method for processing a sequential pattern comprising the steps of: partitioning said sequential pattern into successive time intervals; generating a set of signals representative of the sequential pattern of each time interval responsive to said time interval sequential pattern; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said interval sequential pattern and the interval representative signal set responsive to said interval sequential pattern and said interval representative signals; forming a first signal corresponding to the interval pattern responsive to said interval pattern representative signals and said interval differences representative signal; generating a second interval corresponding signal responsive to said interval pattern representative signals; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; producing a third signal responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for altering said second signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal; and utilizing said third signal to construct a replica of said interval sequential pattern.

2. A method for processing a speech pattern comprising the steps of: partitioning the speech pattern into successive time intervals; generating a set of signals representative of said speech pattern of each time interval responsive to said interval speech pattern; generating a signal representative of the differences between said interval speech pattern and the interval speech pattern representative signal set responsive to said interval speech pattern and said interval speech pattern representative signals; forming a first signal corresponding to the interval speech pattern responsive to said interval speech pattern representative signals and the interval differences representative signal; forming a second interval corresponding signal responsive to the interval speech pattern representative signals; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and producing a third signal responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for altering said second signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal.

3. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 2 wherein: said interval representative signal set generating step comprises generating a set of speech parameter signals representative of said interval speech pattern; said first interval corresponding signal forming step comprises generating said first interval corresponding signal responsive to said speech parameter signals and said differences representative signal; and said second interval corresponding signal forming step comprises generating said second interval corresponding signal responsive to said interval speech parameter signals.

4. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 3 wherein said speech parameter signal generating step comprises generating a set of signals representative of the interval speech spectrum.

5. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 4 wherein: said third signal producing step comprises generating a coded signal having at least one element responsive to the interval differences corresponding signal; and modifying said second interval corresponding signal responsive to said coded signal element.

6. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 5 wherein: said coded signal generating step comprises generating, for a predetermined number of times, a coded signal element responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal; and modifying said second interval corresponding signal responsive to said generated coded signal elements.

7. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 6 wherein: said differences corresponding signal generating step comprises generating a signal representative of the correlation between said first interval corresponding and second interval corresponding signals.

8. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 5 wherein said differences corresponding signal generating step comprises generating a signal representative of the mean squared difference between said first and second interval corresponding signals.

9. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claims 2, 3, or 4 further comprising the step of utilizing said third signal to construct a replica of said interval speech pattern.

10. A sequential pattern processor comprising means for partitioning a sequential pattern into successive time intervals; means responsive to each time interval sequential pattern for generating a set of signals representative of the sequential pattern of said time interval; means responsive to said interval sequential pattern and said interval representative signals for generating a signal representative of the differences between said interval sequential pattern and the interval representative signal set; means responsive to said interval pattern representative signals and said differences representative signal for forming a first signal corresponding to the interval pattern; means responsive to said interval pattern representative signals for generating a second interval corresponding signal; means for generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and means responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for producing a third signal for altering said second signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal; and means for utilizing said third signal to construct a replica of said interval sequential pattern.

11. A speech processor comprising means for partitioning a speech pattern into successive time intervals; means responsive to each interval speech pattern for generating a set of signals representative of the speech pattern of said time interval; means responsive to said interval speech pattern and said interval speech pattern representative signals for generating a signal representative of the differences between said interval speech pattern and the interval representative signal set; means responsive to said speech interval signals and said interval differences representative signal for forming a first signal corresponding to the interval speech pattern; means responsive to said interval speech pattern representative signals for forming a second interval corresponding signal; means for generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and means responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for producing a third signal for altering said second interval corresponding signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal.

12. A speech processor according to claim 11 wherein: said speech interval representative signal set generating means comprises means for generating a set of signals representative of prescribed speech parameters of said interval speech pattern; said first interval corresponding signal forming means comprises means responsive to said interval prescribed speech parameter signals and said differences representative signal for generating said first interval corresponding signal; said second interval corresponding signal forming means comprises means responsive to said interval prescribed speech parameter signals for generating the second interval corresponding signal.

13. A speech processor according to claim 12 wherein said prescribed speech parameter signal generating means comprises means for generating a set of signals representative of the interval speech pattern spectrum.

14. A speech processor according to claim 13 wherein: said third signal producing means comprises means responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for generating a coded signal having at least one element; and means responsive to said coded signal elements for modifying said second interval corresponding signal.

15. A speech processor according to claim 14 wherein: said coded signal generating means comprises means operative N times to produce an N element coded signal including means responsive to said differences corresponding signal for generating coded signal elements; and means responsive to the generated coded signal elements for modifying said second interval corresponding signal.

16. A speech processor according to claim 15 wherein: said interval differences corresponding signal generating means comprises means for generating a signal representative of the correlation between said first and second interval corresponding signals.

17. A speech processor according to claim 15 wherein said interval differences corresponding signal generating means comprises means for generating a signal representative of the mean squared difference between said first and second interval corresponding signals.

18. A speech processor according to claims 11, 12, or 13 further comprising the step of utilizing said third signal to construct a replica of said interval speech pattern.

19. A method for encoding a speech pattern comprising the steps of: partitioning a speech pattern into successive time frames; generating for each frame a set of speech parameter signals responsive to the frame speech pattern; generating a signal representative of the differences between the frame speech pattern and said speech parameter signal set responsive to said frame speech pattern and said frame speech parameter signals; generating a first signal corresponding to the frame speech pattern responsive to said frame speech parameter signals and said differences representative signal; generating a second frame corresponding signal responsive to said frame speech parameter signals; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and producing a coded signal responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for modifying said second interval corresponding signal to reduce said interval differences corresponding signal.

20. A method for encoding a speech signal according to claim 19 further comprising combining said produced coded signal and said speech parameter signals to form a coded signal representative of the frame speech pattern.

21. A method for encoding a speech signal according to claim 19 wherein said speech parameter signal set generation comprises generating a set of linear predictive parameter signals for the frame responsive to said frame speech pattern; and said differences representative signal generation comprises generating a predictive residual signal responsive to said frame linear prediction parameter signals and said frame speech pattern.

22. A method for encoding a speech signal according to claim 21 wherein said coded signal producing step comprises generating a coded signal having at least one element responsive to said differences corresponding signal; and modifying said frame second signal responsive to said coded signal elements.

23. A method for encoding a speech pattern according to claim 21 wherein said signal producing step comprises generating a multielement coded signal by successively generating a coded signal element responsive to said differences corresponding signal and modifying said second signal responsive to said coded signal elements.

24. Apparatus for encoding a speech pattern comprising means for partitioning a speech pattern into successive time frames; means responsive to the frame speech pattern for generating for each frame a set of speech parameter signals; means responsive to said frame speech parameter signals and said frame speech pattern for generating a signal representative of the differences between said frame speech pattern and said frame speech parameter signal set; means responsive to said frame speech parameter signals and said differences representative signal for generating a first signal corresponding to said frame speech pattern; means responsive to said frame speech parameter signals for generating a second frame corresponding signal; means for generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second frame corresponding signals; and means responsive to said frame differences corresponding signal for producing a third signal to modify said second signal to reduce the frame differences corresponding signal.

25. Apparatus for encoding a speech pattern according to claim 24 further comprising means for combining said produced coded signal and said speech parameter signals to form a coded signal representative of the frame speech pattern.

26. Apparatus for encoding a speech pattern according to claim 24 wherein said speech parameter signal generating means comprises means responsive to said frame speech pattern for generating a set of linear predictive parameter signals for the frame; said differences representative signal generating means comprises means responsive to said frame linear prediction parameter signals and said frame speech pattern for generating a frame predictive residual signal; said first signal generating means comprises means responsive to said frame predictive parameter signals and said frame predictive residual signal for forming said first frame corresponding signal; and said second signal generating means comprises means responsive to said frame linear predictive parameter signals for forming said second frame corresponding signal.

27. Apparatus for encoding a speech pattern according to claim 26 wherein said coded signal producing means comprises means responsive to said difference corresponding signal for generating a coded signal having at least one element; and means responsive to said coded signal element for modifying said second signal.

28. Apparatus for encoding a speech pattern according to claim 26 wherein said coded signal producing means comprises means for generating a multielement coded signal including means operative successively for generating a coded signal element responsive to said differences corresponding signal and for modifying said second signal responsive to said coded signal elements.

29. A speech processor comprising means for partitioning a speech pattern into successive time frames; means responsive to the speech pattern of each frame for producing a set of predictive parameter signals and a predictive residual signal; means responsive to said frame predictive parameter and predictive residual signals for generating a first signal corresponding to the frame speech pattern; means responsive to said frame predictive parameter signals for generating a second frame corresponding signal; means responsive to said first and second frame corresponding signals for producing a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second frame corresponding signals; means responsive to said frame differences corresponding signal for generating a coded excitation signal and for applying said coded excitation signal to said second signal generating means to reduce the differences corresponding signal.

30. A speech processor according to claim 29 further comprising means responsive to said frame coded excitation signal and said frame predictive parameter signals for constructing a replica of said frame speech pattern.

31. A speech processor according to claim 29 or claim 30 wherein said coded excitation signal generating means comprises means operative successively to form a multielement coded signal comprising means responsive to the differences corresponding signal for forming an element of said multielement code and for modifying said second signal responsive to said coded signal elements.

32. A method for processing a speech pattern according to claim 5, 6, 7, or 8 further comprising the step of utilizing said coded signal to construct a replica of said interval speech pattern.

33. A speech processor according to claim 14, 15, 16, or 17 further comprising means for utilizing said coded signal to construct a replica of said interval speech pattern.

34. A speech processor for producing a speech message comprising: means for receiving a sequence of speech message time interval signals, each speech interval signal including a plurality of spectral representative signals and an excitation representative signal for said time interval; means jointly responsive to said interval spectral representative signals and said interval excitation representative signal for generating a speech pattern corresponding to the speech message; said interval excitation speech signal being formed by the steps of: partitioning a speech message pattern into successive time intervals; generating a set of signals representative of said speech message pattern for each time interval responsive to said interval speech pattern; generating a signal representative of the differences between said interval speech pattern and said representative signal set responsive to said interval speech pattern and said interval respresentative signals; forming a first signal corresponding to the interval speech message pattern responsive to said speech message pattern interval representative signals and differences representative signal; forming a second interval corresponding signal responsive to said interval speech message pattern representative signals; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and producing a third signal responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for altering said second interval corresponding signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal, said third signal being said interval excitation representative signal.

35. A speech processor according to claim 34 wherein said interval differences corresponding signal generating step comprises generating a signal representative of the correlation between said first interval corresponding signal and said second interval corresponding signal and said third signal producing step comprises forming a coded signal responsive to said correlation representative signal.

36. A speech processor according to claim 34 or 35 wherein said speech message interval spectral representative signals are time interval predictive parameter signals.

37. A method for producing a speech message comprising the steps of: receiving a sequence of speech message interval signals, each speech interval signal including a plurality of spectral representative signals and an excitation representative signal; and generating a speech pattern corresponding to the speech message jointly responsive to said interval spectral representative signals and said interval excitation representative signals; said interval excitation speech signal being formed by the steps of: partitioning a speech pattern into successive time intervals; generating a set of signals representative of the spectrum of said speech pattern for each time interval responsive to said interval speech pattern; generating a signal representative of the differences between said interval speech pattern and said interval speech pattern spectral representative signal set responsive to said interval speech pattern and said spectral representative signals; forming a first signal corresponding to the interval speech pattern responsive to said interval spectral representative signals and said differences representative signal; forming a second interval corresponding signal responsive to said speech pattern interval spectral representative signals; generating a signal corresponding to the differences between said first and second interval corresponding signals; and producing a third signal responsive to said interval differences corresponding signal for altering said second interval corresponding signal to reduce the interval differences corresponding signal said third signal being said interval excitation signal.

38. A method for producing a speech message according to claim 37 wherein said interval differences corresponding signal generating step comprises generating a signal representative of the correlation between said first signal and said second signal and said third signal producing step comprises forming a prescribed format signal responsive to said correlation representative signal.

39. A method for producing a speech message according to claim 37 or 38 wherein said speech interval spectral representative signals are speech interval predictive parameter signals.

40. Apparatus for producing a speech message comprising:

means for receiving a sequence of speech message signals for the successive time intervals of the speech message, each time interval speech message signal including a set of coded spectral representative signals for the time interval portion of said speech message and a plurality of pulse amplitude and location coded signals representative of the differences between the time interval portion of the speech message and the time interval portion of the speech message formed from said spectral representative signals;

means for converting the plurality of pulse amplitude and location codes of said time interval into a signal representative of the excitation of the time interval portion of said speech message; and

means jointly responsive to said interval spectral representative signals and said interval excitation representative signal for generating a speech pattern corresponding to the speech message of said time interval.

41. Apparatus for producing a speech message according to claim 40 wherein said converting means comprises means responsive to said amplitude and location codes for forming a sequence of pulses within said time interval representative of the excitation of the speech message portion of said time interval.

42. A method for producing a speech message comprising the steps of:

receiving a sequence of speech message signals for the successive time interval portions of the speech message, each time interval speech message signal including a set of coded spectral representative signals for the time interval portion of said speech message and a plurality of pulse amplitude and location coded signals representative of the differences between the time interval portion of the speech message and the time interval portion of the speech message formed from said spectral representative signals;

converting the plurality of pulse amplitude and location codes of said time interval into a signal representative of the excitation of the time interval portion of said speech message; and

generating a speech pattern corresponding to the speech message of said time interval jointly responsive to said interval spectral representative signals and said interval excitation representative signal.

43. A method for producing a speech message according to claim 42 wherein said converting step comprises forming a sequence of pulses within said time interval representative of the excitation of the speech message portion of said time interval responsive to said amplitude and location codes.

How did AT&T figure out MS infringed ?

[Reefa]

Ok...so this might sound like a dumb question, but how did AT&T go about figuring out that MS infringed on their patent. Did they take some audio, put it thru the MS code and look at the output to see if it was similar to an output of the AT&T codec ? Or did they dis-assemble the MS codec and compare it to their own ? If the did dis-assemble the codec, didn't they break the EULA ? R

Patenting Math?

[SmackDown]

Think about all the CPU time IBM had to devote, and all the research on the part of scientists to come up with the perceptual encoding and other technologies involved in creating that codec. That wasn't free CPU time and those salaries didn't magically appear. IBM owns that codec, and should be protected by patent law.

Re:What�s the news ?

[Ubi_NL]

No it's not

Lawsuits cost money. They get their money from selling their products. If everyone keeps on suing each other, only the public will pay the price.