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Juno, NetZero To Merge Into 2nd-Largest ISP
elliotc writes: "As free Internet access comes to an end, the last remaining players, Juno and NetZero, are uniting (no pun intended) to form United Online. The combined company hopes to stay alive in the face of AOL, MSN, and Earthlink and to further marginalize smaller companies."
... And not a day goes by that the person on the other end of the phone doesn't have Juno or NetZero, why you ask? Because our service is such crap they actually need it to get on somtimes, even though some of the numbers are exactly the same.
MSN, like most other ISPs, do not use their own equiptment for the POPs, they rent or lease then from uunet, qwest, etc. This is painfully obvious when making a manual dialup connection you have to use MSN/ front of the username.
This would be a great application of Mozilla code. These folks need to build a branded version of Mozilla and distribute it as 'their' browser, bundling in all the tools and services (as well as the advertising thingies they need to keep the service free). It's just too risky using IE or the Netscape-branded version of Mozilla -- these browsers are distributed by their two biggest competitors!
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Oh dear God, would you please STFU? Having Internet access since 1996 does not make you an "oldster". I had my first shell account with Internet access back in 1988, and I don't consider myself an oldbie. I remember when Gopher was the biggest damn thing ever, and thinking that this stupid web thing was never going to replace it. Other people I know remember life before DNS.
I'm all for universal net access. If you collected all of the master's degrees and PhD's from my friends, you'd find an astonishing array of really interesting specialties, but almost none of them are computer-oriented in any way. It frustrates the hell out of me that I can't communicate with them online because they consider net access to be too low a priority to pay much for it, and because elitist cranks like you run around thinking using Netscape 3 in 1996 makes you a freaking veteran.
We're technicians, goddamnit, and despite the tendency of technical people to grossly overestimate their own intelligence, there are plenty of smart and interesting people in other fields. Bring 'em on! And if that means we have to deal with semi-literate trailer trash, well, using spell-checker output to trigger filtering software will get rid of 99% of them.
(And those annoying people who are too lazy to use the shift key and punctuation.)
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NetZero and Juno are old courtroom buddies, having both sued each other in the past. Now they are merging? I don't tend to be a conspiracy theorist but this sounds odd to me.
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-4290897.html
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-1993249.html
If you lose money on every subscriber, how does your free ISP stay afloat?
Through volume...
Here's an excerpt from the merger documents that I happened to see at our law offices. . . "the asset value of the combined entities will be net zero"
I couldn't resist, don't Juno it.
Sigh... Mostly the comment after the article explanation. Here even in smalltown USA we have seen a serious decline in mom and pop shop ISP's (their last thriving palace).
;)
Having worked for one and now coporate amercia(tm) I really do miss the old times.
I guess all good things are destined to go down this path.
At least I can look forward to being an old man getting to complain about how things used to be.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Do you sound elitist? Of course. Do you care? no. Some people still want the free stuff because they either can't afford it (because they are young and their family don't want to pay for it) or they want to spend their money on better things than to subscribe to get hooked up to the Internet, which for all the benefits that it has, also has many drawbacks. Most of us here at Slashdot probably spend more time than we really should online. Come on! Go out and enjoy the summer (I really shouldn't talk, spending more than 15+ hours a day in front of the screen).
If you really try to spend $100 a month on commercial software (and they are not games) then you are just plainly more foolish. You have bought into the franchise - you are going to subscribe to the software taxes (read: licensing fees) for the rest of your life so people like Bill Gates can get rich (I'm not going to knock Bill, I think he deserves to be rich). But for the most part, the "free" (as in beer) software that's out there is keeping us from getting completely assimilated into the software consumer farm-raising that large corporate software houses are trying to do - just like McDonald's and Disney are raising generation after generation of consumers who will be loyal subscribers from childhood, so have you succumbed to the same mentality for software. But that's just my opinion.
And what exactly is wrong with giving Internet access to people? If there are companies willing to give that away, then go right ahead. Just because you paid for your connection it doesn't make you more legitimate or more "wholesome" (gag me, please). You consider it stolen bandwidth, well, suppose I paid more for my connection than you. Well, I can still consider that you have stolen bandwidth from me, because after all, I paid more for my connection, why should you have equal opportunity to get license? Why, ISPs should just give more priority to higher paying customers, and relegate whatever bandwidth that is left over to those who paid less. I'm sure you can see how quickly this will mean that the Internet will only be available to the richest people in the world while being, for all practical purposes, inaccessible to most people in the world (which is currently true, of course).
is how these two can manage to stay in business in the face of massive advertising from giants AT&T and AOL. AT&T has service for $4.95/month, which *almost* anyone can afford. AOL is still pumping out free disks at an incredible rate, and I know from personal experience that their customer retention tactics are as inexorable as those of Scientologists. I didn't realize NetZero was still in business until just a couple of weeks ago I found out a friend of mine is using their service. I suppose they have a niche for the really poor or the really frugal, but what is the point of paying them to run your ads, in the face of such a relatively small subscriber base?
These people looked deep into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
Sincerely,
Vergil
Vergil Bushnell
Insects and Grafitti Photos
(yet somehow they'll still have a better service than AOL)
- Signal-to-noise ratio - I'm an Internet "oldster"
.. I was surfing the Web as far back as 1996 and can assure some of the newer members here that the Internet used to be a much more productive tool. Think about it; how much does a standard, unlimited dial-up account cost these days? $14.95? $19.95? And just who are Juno and NetZero targeting? They are going after people who cannot pony up fifteen bucks a month for legitimate Internet access. Now ask yourself: What value can these people possibly contribute to the Internet at large?
- Encouragement of the "gimme gimme gimme" entitlement mentality - Our society is rapidly moving towards a mindset where people believe, for whatever reason, that they are entitled to certain things, and Internet access is one of those things that people seem to think they have a God-given right to. I don't care if it's universal health care, retirement benefits, or Internet access
.. the mentality that there are some things that should be just "given away" for free is destructive and may uproot the economies of the Western world.
.. not because it is free. It bothers me to see people boast about running Linux and "not having to pay one penny for software." If that's the only reason you're running Linux, perhaps you need to reconsider your priorities. Personally, I try to spend at least $100 USD on commercial software each month, just to ensure the vitality of the system. The vitality of the system is threatened by NetZero and Juno.
- Lower bandwidth for legitimate users - When hundreds of NetZero/Juno customers clog up Web sites such as Slashdot or JenniCam, they are stealing bandwidth from those of us who actually pay for our Internet access. If I could be getting 5K/sec more if it weren't for freeloaders, I consider that stolen bandwidth
.. bandwidth that is being hijacked from me and from the hundreds of thousands of other legitimate Internet users that get their access through more wholesome means.
I could go on, but you get the picture. I believe that it's the duty of real Internet users to oppose "free ISPs." They set a bad precedent, and they run the very real risk of screwing up a Good Thing for the rest of us.I'll tell you what: screw the Internet and just look at the microcosm that is Slashdot. Over the course of the past couple of years, this community has deteriorated from an intelligent online discussion forum to a veritable cornucopia of goat trolls and first posts. Common sense dictates that the majority of this crap is coming from uneducated, lower-class people at the very bottom of the wage scale. Juno and Netzero are dedicated to making sure that these people get Internet access. Well, you can call me elitist, but I call that bullshit.
Linux is another example. Don't get me wrong; I love Linux (and have three machines running it here at home.) But I use Linux because it is a reliable, powerful operating system
FIRST... Elitism: of course there are people less educated than you are, and of course they can sometimes be a problem because they just don't know how to behave or how to interface with the world. But instead of trying to hide uneducated or less fortunate people under a rock, how about we educate them instead? And of course, experience is one of the most effective forms of education!
Let me use a metaphor. You and I are educated folk, and we are standing in the world's largest library. Some less educated people who aren't familiar with the stacks, dewey decimal, or library etiquette come in and discuss loudly amongst themselves how difficult it is to find things in this library. You propose that we chase these people out because we find them distracting. I propose that we tell them how to behave in the library, how to use the stacks, and then let them learn to their hearts' content.
SECOND... Free goods undermining western economies: I can't believe you just made that argument. It was ugly in the Grapes of Wrath and it's ugly today in technology. I personally believe that everything should be free. If I'm a farmer, I distribute my grain free to everyone in your family and extended family, and in return, you as a tractor-maker give me a tractor for free. After all, my farm produces much more food than I can possibly eat, and you as a tractor maker actually have little use for a tractor once it's built... But that's just an idyllic dream, of course.
Now, I'm willing to concede that we live in a capital-based economy and thus, not everything can be free. However, your statement that free products undermine the economy implies that no products at all should be free. That is bullshit. If the people are hungry and there is food, feed them. Don't throw the food into the bin to preserve market price structures. With the internet we have the ability to distribute real knowledge to all people to an extent that has never been seen before in human history. We can raise everyone's consciousness and potential quite a lot bit for very little cost.
To use an example/semi-metaphor again, I personally would find it terribly offensive and horrible if Linux were to suddenly cost $$$ just for the sole purpose of helping out the U.S. economy, thereby depriving thousands of poor computer users around the world in developing or war-ravaged countries of their primary operating system!
You, sir, are borderline evil.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
You only merge for one reason: Economies of scale.
Both players are leveraging the dialup pops of backbone providers like Cable and Wireless, MegaPOP, and whats left of Ziplink. Combined they can possibly pay less for their access -- you didn't actually think they deployed their own network gear did you?
So merger time means they are both sucking-wind fast and maybe together they honestly think they can "best-fit" their way to profitability.
We had a customer switch over recently from one of them, and when we gave them the number for their area, they said, "Wow, thats the number I used to dial for Juno -- why are you going to be any better?" -- our tech replied, "well, you'll talking to a live person aren't you?" -- oh yeah, and we don't use your computer to search for aliens without your permission, nor do we zap you with advertising or sell you out to other companies.
There are three basic rules (okay, maybe four)
1. You get what you pay for.
2. What comes around goes around.
3. There's no such thing as a free lunch
4. A movie at matinee prices is the *SAME* movie you'll see at regular evening rates.
The advertiser "eyeball" model is dead, and banner advertising (and filtering for that matter) is about to kill whats left of that "revenue stream".
Besides....do you REALLY want to advertise your products and services to people that don't even pay for their internet service?
I agree with an earlier post.....ONE bankruptcy, not two will make things so much easier....
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
I just don't get this sentence:
If you--a free ISP--turn your subscribers into paying customers, are you still a free ISP? This seems like a new koan for me to ponder, kinda like the notion of "Compassionate Conservatism". Or maybe this is an example of this "new math" that they started teaching after I finished elementary school."What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
Yes, so six months from now they can have one bankruptcy case instead of two. Think of how much the taxpayers will save.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"