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TiVo Response to 2.0.1 Upgrade Issues
Keeper writes: "Richard Bullwinkle wrote an
official response to issues raised in the TiVo Upgrade Isn't article. The gist of it is that the changes made were only supposed to affect new units, not units upgraded from 1.3. Revision 2.5 of the software (due out in September) will reenable all of the functionality found in unsubscribed 1.3 units."
The new boxes have the phrase "TiVo Service Required" plastered all over the box. The old box said something along the lines that the box was still functional without the service.
That's how this whole mess started. They didn't want to remove the functionality of the old boxes, but did from new boxes. Just so happens that they missed some things in testing because they wern't paying a whole lot of attention to it in the first place.
So they sabotage the property of thousands of people, and now they expect them to be happy by a "we didn't mean to", and "you'll get your stuff working in 3 months again".
:-), and this is pretty out of character for them. My guess, having been through a few startups myself, is that since the company isn't doing so well, they've hired some hardasshole business people to make more money by becoming more ruthless.
Imagine a car dealership popping the tires of your new car after a few months since you didn't pay for the extended insurance! It has to be illegal, and they should consider how amused a judge would be by their childish excuses.
Saying they'll fix it in 3 months is not nearly good enough. They should fix it ASAP. I'm a software engineer, and if those changes takes three months to do, there is no hope for their software. A week is more likely. And meanwhile, these people should get the subscription for free.
I'm a very happy Tivo owner (and less happy stockholder
One day after Slashdot mentions it, we get an official response with the phrase, "we never had any intention of trying to diminish the value of an existing box without the TiVo service, or of annoying those of you who use the box this way in order to push you into becoming paying subscribers." WTF!?!?! This is totally new information. Every TiVo user on the forum was under the impression that TiVo did not care about non-subscribers, since these people actually cost TiVo money.
The whole "official response" is fully of language that completely contradicts every earlier post in the forum. Granted, almost all of those posts were from people who are not TiVo employees, but it's still amazing.
What upsets me (and probably every other forum reader) the most is that it took so long from this information to come out. This official response should have come out six months ago.
--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
However, I noticed that all source code was removed from the page of the developer. Does anyone know why the source was pulled? A mirror of the file ExtractStream-0.1.tgz is available at http://www.stampede.org/~skibum/tivo/ I't be a great pity if such an amazing hack were to be lost forever or for development to stop. What I want to know is, was the author threatened by TiVo or some other party? I'm not sure if they'd have any legal ground but it seems very unfair to threaten this man legally for his great hack.
My cellphone does work without a service - It's a clock, and I can play Space Invaders on it. My 6 year old's cell phone works without a service too - it lights up, and he can play at making calls with it.
If the limited functionality without a service is all that you need, then why buy the service ?
If a contract offers a particular set of functions without buying the service, then it's a clear breach of that contract to withdraw those service later. AFAIK, the TiVo contract stated that these services might not be available on later boxes, but that they were available on boxes of that generation.
Your "stupidity explains most perceived malice" comment is probably true here, but that doesn't excuse TiVo's behaviour, nor does it remove the loss suffered by existing TiVo owners.
What's the financial status of TiVo ? I'm not implying anything by this, other than caution, but this sort of low-rent money-grabbing trick has been the action of last-resort by an awful lot of cash-strapped dot-coms lately.
Net loss last quarter: $49 million.
Net loss a year ago last quarter: $23 million.
Cash and equivalents last quarter: $72.7 million.
Cash and equivalents a year ago last quarter: $124.5 million.
So, even assuming that their burn rate does not increase (though, the current trend is doubling from last year to this), they'll be broke by next January. Hmm, right about the same time as Webvan.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I've been wanting to get a Tivo, but I've been holding off. I probably wont be a subscriber because I just dont watch that much TV.
If the new Tivos wont let you record, and they pop-up nag screens to get you to subscribe- what the hell good are they?(to a non subscriber) What do they actually let you do without a subscription...
Mabye I can build my own Tivo. Does anybody know how to setup a linux box to function like a tivo? (Matrox card?)
...that any application of hardware that THEY built should be sanctioned and controlled by THEM. These people think they still own the boxes, even after you've plunked over your money and taken the box home. It's not uncommon in the technology world, just look at Microsoft's attempt to foist XP on the world. What's particularly funny about it, is that OTHER industries seem to want to drop their products like a hot rock as soon as the merchandise is off the sales floor. Have you ever tried to complain about defects that appear in your car after the warranty is expired? What about return a stereo component or video camera? I think the difference here is that companies that actually have CONTENT to provide confuse their content with the medium used to provide it. (Of course, Microsoft only THINKS they have content to provide, TiVo might actually have some.)
What'dya mean there's no BLINK tag!?
What everyone is failing to realize is that TiVO spends a lot of time in developing this software. Now, they are assuming that the users that aren't paying for the subscription also aren't using their network and bandwidth to dial into. There isn't anything that says once you purchase one of these that you are entitled to free software upgrades for the rest of your life. So why is the damn thing even plugged into your phone line? Without paying you are tying up their phone lines, which costs real money; using their bandwidth, which costs real money; and you are using their servers, which cost real money. All you were entitled to when you purchased the box was what came with it. Anything beyond that is just whipped cream on top. So your getting free software upgrades, which I would assume they would stop for those that aren't paying for the service. Would that make everyone happier? No, now they whine and moan because they don't get the software upgrades for free. Everyone wants something for free, but who can aford to give everything away for free?
Revelations 0:0 - The begining of the end.
Mostly Wrong. The whole outcry occurred because people without the subscription service found the TiVo with the 1.3 software useful for recording live TV and programming recordings of shows. When the update came out these same people found the device to be signficantly more difficult to use than before. Then the TiVo became nearly useless without the service. Your statement should have been "Tivos are nearly useless without the service after the 2.0.1 software upgrade anyway".
They have a few bugs in the new software that make it less usable for those without the service, but they are going to fix those.
What they have done is disable non-advanced features and denied promises displayed prominently on their advertising material (notably "subscription to service required for advanced features") and stated that they will leave customers - who purchased the units in good faith - in this state of significantly diminished usability for three months.
This looks like a deliberate ruse to get non-subscribers to subscribe since a 2.0.2 update that simply bypassed the "you must be subscribed" screen for one touch recording would be easy to implement and quick to QA. Even if it was initially a mistake on their part, they are making little effort to fix it since from their perspective it could clearly lead to new subscriptions.
What TiVo needs is a class action lawsuit filed against it that drops its stock price a couple of dollars. *that* will shake up the guys holding lots of shares at the top and will quickly trickle down so that the situation is fixed in short order.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
C'mon guys, why do you HAVE to have a conspiracy EVERYWHERE? Are you really that paranoid? It's not like this is the first software release in the history of computing that bugs or unintended side effects, is it?
Tivos are nearly useless without the service anyway. There are less than 200,000 total sold. There's a small handful of people not using them with the service. They have ALWAYS said that they were going to eliminate the functionality of new units without the service, just as your cell phone won't work without a service, or your beeper. This isn't a change. So they started adding those things into 2.01 that would make the newer units more reliant on the service and nobody noticed that they would also affect the un-subscribed. Inadequate testing? Perhaps. Malicious intent? Not when they are doing now exactly what they told us they would do all along. Six months ago we were told that "new machines that ship with 2.01 will be more limited in what they can do without the service, but those machines that shipped with 1.3 will keep the abilities they have now" and guess what? That's exactly what they are doing. It's not hidden, it's not a conspiracy, they TOLD us what the plan was. They have a few bugs in the new software that make it less usable for those without the service, but they are going to fix those. Show me any significant program without bugs. We've been running Sendmail on the net for 20 years, is it bug free yet? Is it even security hole free yet? How about BIND? Apache? Linux? FreeBSD? Any of them 100% free of bugs?
Of course not. And now that we make consumer electronics with computers, we are likely to see similar bugs throughout their existence as well.
It got worse though. It decided to move away from its seat under the telly, and sit in MY chair. I only have the one. I have to sit under the telly. I can't even see the thing from there.
It gets worrse. I've recently been getting suspicious that my Tivo is making arrangements with my landlord to buy the buolding I live in. I think its trying to evict me.
I hope this serves as a warning to all potential TiVO buyers - Make sure you remain in control.
According to the "official response" the reason was:
How did this happen? Well, frankly, we don't usually really concentrate very much on the User Experience for non-subscribers. We did successfully anticipate that non-subscribers would care about manual recordings and we put a lot of effort into engineering and testing a grandfathered state - it is especially ironic that because we spent all our non-service testing effort on insuring that we preserved manual recordings that we failed to discover the other change
Which makes sense. They get money from the services, not hardware.
Check out Althea for a stable IMAP email client for X. Now with SSL!
We hope this quick response will assure you that we did not intend to change your experience as a non-subscriber, and that we take your concerns very seriously.
If I owned one of these things, I'd be returning it a la the Discount Tire commercial, where the old lady 'brings back' the tire when unsatisfied by throwing it through their front window.
I know some of the technology/car comparisons are a bit silly and overblown, but DO imagine a car that suddenly won't work, and the fix isn't due for 3 months.
It should be no more than a week to get a version of 1.3 into the hands of everyone who wants it.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Is more than just the hardware. It's the service. I love having a TiVo. Without TiVo service, it's just a VCR with a few refinements. With TiVo service, well, those not subscribed to TiVo service are missing out on a great deal of functionality.
But you don't want to pay for information that is free over the internet? It's not free in the first place. Most sites offering TV listings want some personal information and you have to deal with advertising. You pay for the listings in your paper when you buy the paper. The listings in the paper contain advertisments. For what, $10 a month TiVo delivers full listings to your TiVo unit, no adds, all sorted according to the TV service in your area.
When it's just one area, it's still alot of information. How many shows does just one TV station run in a week? Well, there are 336 30 minute time slots in a 7 day period. With 10 brodcast channels that's 3360 30 minutes time slots. With cable, well...that's a hell of a lot of information, and it all has to be localized, put into a format so that your TiVo canuse it, delivered via dialup...
It's a service. If you want it to be free, go set it up yourself. When you're finished, you see if you want to offer it for free.
If you're using a TiVo without a subscription, relize that your are not TiVo's primiary consern because you are not generating any revenue for them. TiVo already profited from your unit before your bought it. TiVo is being rather generous letting you upgrade at no cost, IMHO.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.