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Australians to Build Spaceport on Christmas Island
Saint Aardvark the Carpeted writes: "CNN reports here that they're jumping into the satellite launching business by building a spaceport on Christmas Island. At only 10 degrees from the equator, the location offers cheaper launches for the launch vehicles, which the government has already agreed to buy from Russia in May."
goatse.cx
So it is true that there is no bad publicity.
I wonder where the Australian officials got the idea from. I guess Christmas is not a very popular place. Maybe they read too much Slashdot at -1 level.
So if you want to develop space industry in your small country, now you know how to promote it.
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Well... the Oz military developed a gadget called a HoveRoc, a missile which you fire from a destroyer to fly off nearby and hover, making destroyerish noises (radio, sonar etc) to attract missiles. This cost them (including the first three operational missiles) something less than a fiftieth of the price for the US military to get asingle prototype hovering (no countermeasures yet, just hovering). Conservatively scaling the $US52M by that factor means you've really got a $2.5G spaceport... (-:
Also, a lot depends on what you mean by ``spaceport.'' $Oz100M can buy a lot of bulldozer time for pushing industrial wastes into pristine lagoons, plus a concrete jetty and a tin shed for the bloke who pushes the button.
To all the ecologists who just stood up, red-faced, to abuse the living daylights out of me, they'll probably really be building the launch pad in a closed bird-poo (phosphate) mine, and lagoons would be most unsuitable targets for landing and recovering inbound gear.
On the subject of the crabs, the gobbledok who proposed little tunnels under the road is invited to stand on one of said roads during the crab season. At this point, I'd like to remind you that these little blighters are so hard and sharp that they puncture modern car tyres.
Crab season only happens for a couple of days each year, but during those days you get many millions of crabs across the road. You'd basically have to build a very low elevated roadway (say, 50cm clear of the ground) to replace practically all of the roads, in order to help noticeably. The $Oz100M for the spaceport probably wouldn't cover that.
Many more crabs would be eaten by gulls or whatever than crushed by cars. Has your sense of proportion kicked in yet?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Check out the hypergolic propellants that the proton uses. This is not your typical kerosine or H2 and LOX rocket. The propellants ignite on contact, and produce lots of nitrogen oxides. The exhaust is orange.
BTW, the U.S. Titan ICBM's used this same type of propellant.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
I wonder how this will effect the resident crab population.
In an older National Geographic I remember seeing Millions of red crabs overrun the island - this happens once a year. There is a picture of these crabs with the story link.
I would guess that Christmas Island has quite a unique ecosystem. I hope the installation of a launching pad et al. does not mess things up too much.
Still on the bright side, after a rocket launch... there would be lotsa cooked crab up for grabs...
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
....now we will get links to http://www.spaceport.cx/ hidden all over the place.
Yeah, and when people load up the page they'll be greeted by a picture of a gaping rocket motor nozzle...
C-X C-S
We have that exact problem here. Our herds were so large at one point they had to add an extra season in there just to cull out more of the herd. I'd rather have a deer shot and dead quickly than have it face a slow, agonizing death of starvation.
:)
On another note, I hear that the crabs cost the locals thousands in tire repairs every year, as well.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Russia is well-known for highly poisonous rocket exhaust, especially from the PROTON rocket.
The exhaust from the shuttle SRBs is rather nasty too (though the main engines should be fine as they just produce steam.) Ariane 5 also uses SRBs
Space travel is not exotic. It shouldnt have to be so expensive that only multinationals and major governments can afford it. Rocket fuel costs about as much as milk.
But you need rather a lot of it to get something in to orbit. IIRC there are also issues with ordinary people producing rockets with avionics and control systems on board.
And why is this? Plenty of folks build complicated items in their spare time on a daily basis. Many of these items are, in fact, highly complicated aircraft.
Governments get upset about the idea of "guided missiles" in the hands of civilians. It's rather hard to convert a kit aircraft into a serviciable cruise missile. If you can make a rocket capable of reaching orbit you can bomb just about anywhere on the planet.
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As far as I can find the island's major industry is phosphate mining. Is launching an occasional spacecraft going to be much worse?
From http://www.christmas.net.au/ :
[...] it was not until 1888 that Christmas Island was settled [...]
[...]As there was no indigenous population, a work force had to be imported[to work in the phosphate mines]
The island has [...] been chosen as a suitable site for a space satellite launching station. A decision for the Asia Pacific Space Centre project will be determined by an Environmental Impact Study which is nearly complete.
And BTW, that environmental study has been done, evidently finding that the damages you propose are unlikely.
i would also suggest taking a look at how great a boon to wildlife, endangered and otherwise, that NASA's Cape Canaveral space facilities (USA, Florida) has turned out to be, to see how this has turned out before in the Real World.
Seriously. You can't build anything for miles around a space port, so the wildlife tends to thrive.
That's what they found in Florida, anyway.
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You haven't thought this through very far, have you? Getting to space is the least of our problems. With our current level of technology, a human population cannot survive indefinitely in space, and can only stay there temporarily at massive cost.
Living conditions, even in the brand new IIS, are cramped, noisy, smelly and life support takes lots of highly skilled maintainence.
We are nowhere close to making a safe, self-sustaining, self-feeding zero-g ecology.
We have no techniques yet for exploiting natural resources (e.g mining iron for construction) in a vacuum yet - construction work is exeedingly laborius and involves components manufactured entirely on earth.
There is no solution yet for the detrimental changes that long-term weightlessness has on human physiology - calcium loss in the bones etc.
Besides that, radiation shielding would be needed or they would die out within a generation from cancer and other detrimental mutations. That atmosphere thing protects us from most nasty solar radiation.
We don't need pioneers ... yet.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Christmas Island used to be where the British and Australlians allowed the Americans do detonate Hydrogeon Bombs. If the crabs survived 10 megaton explosions, I think they'll survive the space port.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Russia is well-known for highly poisonous rocket exhaust, especially from the PROTON rocket. I seem to remember this being used recently. Does anyone know if this is true and whether the launch vehicles Australia purchased might be using something similar?
Last time Christmas Island dealt with big Western hardware, the British were nuking them. USA did it to Bikini and Eniwetok, UK chose Christmas.
Nowadays there's a casino on Christmas, which means foreign tourists, prostitution and wiping out the local population with HIV.
Being a launch site isn't such a bad option.
But could someone please tell me which way any debris like wasted booster rockets will go - East or West? I figure one of the directions has got to be a better one to launch in due to the rotation of the Earth, but I can't figure out which. Which countries will be under the path of any launches?
That's the sound of your joke going straight over the heads of a lot (most?) of the Slashdot crowd : )
And don't be so down on Harold - he's great comic relief from the more depressing stories in Neighbours - Lance and Toady are fighting? Well, never mind cos Harold's getting frustrated by the washing machine or something. Fantastic (and so much less depressing than Eastenders). Now if only they'd bring Mrs Mangle back....
The term "illegal alien" contrieves a whole new meaning... Now other than Iraqi and Indonesian boat people, we have to deal with International Space Station refugees and political assylum seekers. Oh well, for the first time in Australian history we will be the ones shooting garbage into space rather than having it fall down into our backyards.
Revolution = Evolution
$52 million US is not going to buy you a spaceport, so presumably the private sector is providing the the remaining funding. Anyone like to speculate on the total cost?
... the 1,200 Christamas Island inhabitants who will now need to put up with the noise and pollution generated by throwing large amounts of metal skywards.
This is a similar situation to a launch pad based in (Venezuala? Forgot link...) where the introduction of the Space Industry was meant to make life so much better for the locals, but in reality they all want rid of it because it brought none of the expected benefits.
To the residents of Christmas Island: RIP your way of life.
*sigh*
Space can be had by the common public
But you don't actually clarify why the Common Public needs space.
I'm as keen as the next man, but I think most people have enough earth-bound problems to contend with at the moment before they feel like starting a new life on Mars.
CNN is building a spaceport?!
(or something)
The slashdot 2 minute between postings limit: /.'ers since Spring 2001.
Pissing off coffee drinking
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You make good points about the technical difficluties of some sort of post-earthbound existance (note, I'm not limiting the discussion to sattelites, lunar, or martian settlements). However there is a chicken and egg problem that you are ignoring. No one is going to completely design, build and test to fine-nines perfection the chicken until their is a reason. That reason is the pioneers that will need that those technologies. Get a couple of people on the Moon with a weekly show ("Survivor IXX: Moon Base Alpha") and if something goes wrong us earth-bound people are going to come up with a solution.
I'm sure there are people reading that can pick apart the technical difficulties of some sort of settlement option, but my point is more heroic. Imagine the following historical drama:
Queen Isabelle: Chris, my sweetie, you can't go the New World, there's no lighthouses on the shores to guide your ship through potential reefs!!!
Christopher Columbus: Babe, I'm willing to risk it. I want to be remembered forever as the discoverer of the New World. I'm, of course, not denigrating the accomplishments of Vikings and, possibly, Irish monks. Oh, and don't forget those wacky "indians", boy did they have a walk, whew...
Queen Isabelle: No, my lust monkey, I forbid it. I will not allow my husband to fund your dangerous mission. For god's sake, your ships are not even fully sea monster proof.
Christopher Columbus: Oh my gilded buttercup, they are sea monster proofed as much as current technology will allow. Besides, the only thing I need to scare off those monsters is my trusty muskett and a lock of your hair that I may hold in a locket close to my heart!
Queen Isabelle: Oh take me NOW!!!
King Ferdinand: Jesus H. Christ would you two shut up, I'm trying to watch the game. Chris here's a check, now get the fuck out!!
How many readers of /. would be willing to risk a 10% yearly mortality rate to be the first pioneers on a lunar settlement. If nothing else, think of the babes!!!
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
If you move into their living space and take over all their food sources, they are going to chew up your lawns. If the local government would provide a few preserves where they could live and eat, they wouldn't be in your apartment complex.
slip of the mouse maybe?
have you ever sent this in as an article or to ask slashdot?
it doesn't quite fit here, but some people might be interested
My school (Knox Grammar in Sydney, Australia) has a joint satellite project with another school in Sydney, Ravenswood and a school in Russia.
The satellite is named "Kolibri" and each school has equipment for communicating and recieving data from the satellite.
The students are performing actual research regarding "the structure and intensity of low-frequency electromagmetic fields around the Earth".
You can read more about this project here and here.
Did anyone around here with a .cx domain notice that at almost exactly the same time /. went down Friday, so did niccx.com? I've not been able to get through to them at all since. Anyone know what's happened Down Under?
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
The viaducts are a great idea when you're dealing with a population of wildlife that's being adversely affected by humanity. In this case at least from the little bit of information I've seen humanity is just acting as a check. For the individual red crab it may suck getting run over by a car, but statistically it might be the better thing unless other predators are introduced.
It's sort of like the anti-hunting people who complain about shooting bambi. I don't hunt, but I respect the right to hunt (according to laws etc). Since we've killed off most of their natural predators (wolves) deer populations run rampant in some places. This means that they often face starvation as food supplies go scarce. Reducing the population of deer (or more accurately, controlling) through hunting is more humane than just letting herds grow to the point where their food supply can't support them. Again, for the deer that is turned into steaks its a raw deal, but for the herd as a whole its a good thing.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
As there was no indigenous population, a work force had to be imported[to work in the phosphate mines] If I understand the source of the "phosphate" correctly, the main industry there is mining well-aged bird poop. In a tropical climate. Tourism may be a significant industry also -- but I grew up in a town that lived on tourism, and shoveling bird poop might be preferable to the tourist trade. So I think the residents are likely to consider a few minutes of loud noise every few days as an good trade off for new jobs.
10% yearly mortality rate? That's nothing. Less than half of the Pilgrims survived the first year. The real record in mortality on a successful mission might belong to Magellan's around the world expedition: 5 ships went out, 1 came home, with only about 20 crewmen left. (Magellan himself died in the Phillipines.) I'm not sure how many men were in the original crews or in those who crossed into the Pacific. If I remember right, 2 ships turned back -- one empty supply ship by plan, the other because the crew mutinied (and were eventually hung), so I guess you should only count the 3 crews that crossed the Straits of Magellan. I'm guessing that these ships had crews of 50 to 100 originally, which makes the mortality rate 90% or more.
Right now, people just drive over the crabs when they cross roads during there yearly crab migration. Apperantly, the inhabitants don't even think about a solution. In Holland we have special little viaducts for wildlife roadcrossing. On Chrismas Island the red crabs are killed by millions every year. What will this spaceport do the population? Is there even being thought of the consequences for the crabs?
More on Christmas Island crabs:
http://www.kidzworld.com/Frameset/reloadframe.asp? s=102&p=http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p820.htm
http://www.markuskappeler.ch/fot/fots/ch_crabs.htm l
If managed properly, this launching facility should be quite safe to the Christmas Island eco-system. Kennedy Space Center is an incredible example of how, when done right, high technology and the environment can thrive. KSC has all sorts of endangered species that live in and around the spaceport. That's not to say that APSC won't completely screw up the island, but if they do, it'll be a complete shame because there's absolutely no excuse.
Hey Bruce, come on over and we'll throw another crab on the launchpad...
-- We don't understand software, and sometimes we don't understand hardware, but we can *see* the blinking lights
For those with questions;
i) The Aurora rocket being developed will use liquid oxygen/kerosene for all stages so the worst real pollutants will be CO2 and H2O.
ii) The best direction to launch is east.
iii) The project is completely private. The government is simply providing a funding boost to "get it off the ground" in anticipation of job creation/taxes/exports.
iv) See here for more info