Slashdot Mirror
Konqueror Supporting ActiveX
brunes69 notes that you can read the news that konqueror is supporting ActiveX. I saw it being done at at LinuxTag (as well as wine running The Sims!) so its coming. This ought to do a lot to give Linux users compatibility on sites the force shockwave or other obnoxious activex plug-ins.
This is good news. I'm not a K user, but this still affects the entire linux community, and I think it's a good thing. Inter-operability with other OSs and applications is what makes linux immediately superior to other OSs :)
:)
The problem with supporting these "windows only" plugins is that web developers are STILL filtering their sites based on OS and browser string. Even though my browser (galeon) is perfectly able to display http://www.shockwave.com, I go there and get a "platform not supported" message for EVERY FSCKING PAGE on their site. Someone in the office managed to get in with either Konq or Opera by changing the os and browser string to windows/ie5, but this is not a valid option in my opinion.
Even if galeon or konq suddenly had the ability to view shockwave files, they would still not be allowed into the site, as on every page there is a browser/os check. Now I know this is not true for all sites, or perhaps even a majority of them, but it is something that affects non-windows and non-IE users every day, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Web designers have it in their ability without doing much. A friend of mine supports all OSs and browsers on his site even though it has heavy use of CSS and all the "new" tricks. He could write a huge amount of java script and multiple pages to display different things based on the browser, but he simply supports HTML4 (which is fine for ie, mozilla, galeon, ns6, etc) and strips all CSS for others. So while netscape 4.x doesn't look as pretty, the information is all there.
Even though I give him shit for not taking the time to support a still prominent browser (ns 4.x), I applaud him for not putting a big "you suck, get a new browser and use windows and ie" sign up for all non ie5 users.
I guess the trick is getting the web developers the information that non IE browsers DO support the latest standards and look just dandy.
Oh, and shockwave.com... you suck
Before people start flaming about security:
This is only a developer's release, not ready for KDE Prime Time, and the security issues are already being considered. There are several options existing to protect Unix users including proper use of non-priviledged accounts (perhaps by setuid'ing reaktivate to nobody), chroot, sandboxes... etc. And after all this, KDE will probably still not enable ActiveX by default on any system. Remember, Konqueror does not even enable Java or JavaScript by default yet.
As for the usefulness of ActiveX in KDE, one of the main purposes of the developers is to help companies with an investment in ActiveX controls (perhaps on their internal sites or intranet) to migrate over to KDE systems. As a plus, of course, us users may get to enjoy Shockwave and QuickTime for which no free software solution is in sight.
So celebrate this for what this is: A rewly hack validating the KDE and WINE technologies that the Free Software wourld has brought us.
Cheers,
-N.
What would the big deal be for ActiveX support on linux?
The obvious answer: the same as its use on Microsoft platforms; expose
COM's binary, language-independent, object interface standards.
(The networked version of this, DCOM, uses RPC for transport.)
COM is at the heart of what Microsoft has called OLE these many years,
and as time has passed there has been semantic erosion of their distinction.
ActiveX controls are the successor to OLE controls (*.OCX), which are
the successor to Visual Basic (*.VBX) controls. Such controls are the
bread-and-butter of contemporary corporate PC software development,
as well as the business of a thriving industry of third-party control makers,
not the least of which is Marietta's MicroHelp, recently acquired by an
ambitious Internet firm.
COM objects are semantically equivalent to Java classes, but also
provide the ability to discover what interfaces exist at run time,
via QueryInterface. This important feature is being introduced to Java
through the JavaBeans Spec 1.0, via the BeanInfo class ("introspection").
To quote Microsoft, (May 23, 1996 Draft)
"The integration of Java and COM can be achieved by just making
changes to the Java VM, and not adding any new keywords or
constructs to the Java language."
Visual J++ 1.1 includes Wizards that allow you to use ActiveX objects as
Java classes and vice-versa.
However, COM objects are instantiated with native code, not
on a "platform-independent" Java Virtual Machine. Cross-platform
congruence or differentiation depends on the implementation
of the object on each platform, rather than on the implementation
of the Java Virtual Machine on each platform. In this aspect, one might
compare ActiveX objects to Netscape plug-ins, rather than Java classes.
> Should we be developing substitutes or alternatives for ActiveX instead of trying to recreate it?
Who is this "we" you speak of? Are you doing any development for any open source project? Specifically, are you working on Wine? If not, then it is not your "we" to consider. Obviously, the people working on this find it worthwhile. If you feel that other projects should be worked on, then devote your effort to those. The developer effort of the Wine project is not your's to command.
> Get your priorities straight: Linux ought to be an alternative, not a poor imitation.
Those are *your* priorities. They happen to be mine as well, but that isn't the point. Developers have their own goals, so you shouldn't expect them to work toward *your's* instead.
In particular, I think Miguel is overly fond of copying Microsoft. It's not how I would develop Gnome, but I'm not the one doing it...Miguel and the others are, and they will do it how they see fit. But you and I have no authority over them, so they will continue to develop as they please.
--Lenny
Both developments has their good and bad sides.
ActiveX support can be very important in multi-OS work environments and for many on-line banking sites, for example.
On the other hand, sandboxing it and turning it off by default doesn't sound like a bad idea. But don't worry, as long as this requires Wine CVS and as long as the activexproxy is a program in kdenonbeta, it won't be installed by default on your distribution.
Same with the new Ximian developments: embracing and cooperating with SOAP sounds like a good idea.
I _would_ be very careful about .NET development since it is basically Microsoft's proprietary lock-in platform to make sure SOAP will give them _more_ control, not _less_, but cooperation is good. Even so, it is not like we KDE people are totally against SOAP support, some projects already use it.
Furthermore, I like to stress that ActiveX support originated as a proof-of-concept and "cool factor" development. The responses we received at LinuxTag confirmed this.
...I can deactivate ActiveX support under Linux, too. Great!
God, root, what is difference? - Pitr
Well, there's another, more important, piece of work going on according to the article. They're trying to get QuickTime working as well! This is much more important than (bad, security flawed) activeX. Being able to watch movie trailers, streaming media from more sources, etc. is much more fun and useful than shockwave.
Wine is good, but I can't get it to run QuickTime, though I try with every revision. I can reliably get Windows Media Player to run under Wine, but that's not good enough. This is one place where Linux sucks; we'll never get decent streaming multimedia support (Real doesn't cut it!) until someone licenses the codecs and releases a product (which will cause all the GPL freaks to scream because they'll want to charge for it; you may think I'm flaming, but every damn time I read something about good comercial software here, most people just complain that it's not free!).
---------The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Konqueror is getting support for The Force? Sweet! Or is it just Force-compatible? Sigh... I was so looking forward to saying,
to Internet Explorer... .
There is one thing that isn't to clear in the press releases: As Wine is i386 only, the support for activeX is of course only available for KDE running on Intel I386 architechture.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a brutal anal raping at airport security
What's next, are they going to port the BSOD to be some daemon that runs and randomly crashes the system to be more compatible with Windows?
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
Why is KDE relying on ActiveX? Shouldn't we be developing a better technology instead of using Micro$oft's?
Leaving aside the question of who the "we" is who is always invoked in such remarks, this is a clever, useful hack by a couple of developers that's in kdenonbeta. No one is proposing to build KDE around ActiveX, no one is telling companies to stop making native plugins and it's not like a significant drain on resources went into making it.
Isn't this a huge security risk?
On the KDE site's discussion, Malte mentioned they were working on a chroot-based sandboxing method. This is still a work in progress and they tell you not to use it on sites you don't trust. And for God's sake, don't run it as root!! It's not going into the 2.2 release and anyone who is capable of installing it today ought to have the sense to run it carefully.
Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.