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MySQL.com vs. MySQL.org?
What follows is the Press Release MySQL AB has released attacking MySQL.org (and NuSphere). It was submitted to us by Marten Mickos from MySQL
MYSQL COMMUNITY THREATENED BY OBSCURE .ORG WEBSITE
Uppsala, Sweden, 12 July 2001 - Open source software company MySQL AB today announced that an unauthorised party has set up a website on www.mysql.ORG in direct violation of the trademark rights of MySQL AB and with the apparent goal to confuse the huge worldwide community of MySQL users.
Michael "Monty" Widenius and David Axmark, co-founders of MySQL AB and the creators of this world-leading open source database software commented "We normally welcome new sites that focus on the MySQL(TM) server, but this one violates our trademark and may lead users to wrongfully believe it represents the people behind the MySQL(TM) server. We were not contacted about this website and it operates without our authorisation. We cannot recommend anybody to visit that site."
The obscure .ORG site claims to offer free services, but a registration is needed for downloading the software that apparently has been copied from the official MySQL.com website. The .ORG site fails to display information of the people or organisations behind it. The domain was registered in the name of NuSphere Corporation, a subsidiary of Progress Software Corporation (NASDAQ: PRGS), on 4 June 2001. Both companies sell proprietary, non-open software.
The original and official MySQL.com website of MySQL AB is immensely popular and serves millions of users with free software, free information, and an opportunity for visitors to contribute comments and other things, such as additional tools and utilities. No registration is required for accessing MySQL.com. In addition, the MySQL(TM) server is a popular topic on several other open source websites such as Slashdot.
Yahoo! has been using MySQL(TM) servers in mission-critical applications for several years. Jeremy Zawodny, a member of the MySQL user community and an engineer at Yahoo! commented "I really don't see the need for the MySQL.org Web site. The MySQL.com site already contains a wealth of information and software from the MySQL developers and members of the community. I worry that the introduction of this Web site will confuse new users and potentially fracture or otherwise harm the MySQL user community."
Marten Mickos, newly appointed CEO of MySQL AB, commented "We consider operating the mysql.ORG site illegal activity and we are taking steps to enforce our trademark and other rights." In respect to how the MySQL(TM) community is served, he said "We will continue to serve existing and new MySQL(TM) users with software under GPL and free information without requiring registration. Our new 'portals' present an even wider array of useful information and services, and users are free to comment on the items there. At the same time, we have the best commercial support services for the MySQL(TM) server and as the owners of the software we are the only ones who can sell commercial licences." MySQL AB develops, supports and markets the MySQL(TM) database server worldwide. MySQL AB, the sole owner of the MySQL(TM) trademark, is fully committed to the Open Source philosophy and to making MySQL(TM) available and affordable for all. MySQL AB is a Swedish privately held company co-founded by David Axmark, Allan Larsson and Michael Widenius. MySQL(TM) is a trademark of MySQL AB in the US, Sweden, and other countries, and is registered in Sweden and 13 other countries. Other names are trademarks of their respective owners. For more information, please visit www.mysql.com or write to press@mysql.com."
I'm sorry, but I think that you're argument is incorrect. You're first assumption is bad, IMHO: you are not, in fact, defending your trademark by registering only the *.mysql.com domain name. Let's look at examples from another namespace, corporation names.
Example 1:
Company Foogiston, Inc. was incorporated in 1998 and makes Foogiston (TM) brand floogle-binders. Then, another company is incorporated in 2001 as Foogiston Systems, Ltd. and they make Foogiston Ltd. (TM) floogle-binders. Foogiston, Inc. is obviously upset, since it is very easy to confuse the two names and products. Foogiston, Inc. sues Foogiston Systems, Ltd. over the trademark, and probably wins, since they were incorporated first.
Example 2:
Foogiston, Inc. is incorporated in 1998 and makes Foogiston (TM) brand floogle-binders. Foogiston Systems, Ltd. is incorporated in 2001 and makes a software product called Foog! (TM). Since the companies have no common product, can Foogiston, Inc. sue Foogiston Systems, Ltd.? I don't think they'd win any such law suit, because they can't show that their floogle-binder product is hurt by the similar names. There's no material damage.
Example 3 (bringing it back to domains):
Foogiston, Inc. is a publishing house that prints Foog Magazine (TM), was incorporated in 1998, and has registered www.foog.com, www.foogmagazine.com (pointer to www.foog.com) and www.foogiston.com (the corporate website). Bill Whiteguy registers an online 'zine called www.foog-zine.net. Can Foogiston, Inc. sue Mr. Whiteguy because for trademark infringement? You bet they can, because it is a similar product (website content) that bears a striking resemblance to Foogiston, Inc.'s product (online offering of magazine content) in product and name. This has happened many times, both justified and not.
The difference here is that MySQL.org is selling a slightly different version of the MySQL.com product. This is even worse than the above scenarios, becuase it is not only likely, but inevitable that someone (how many pointy-haireds are out there?) will confuse these products because of the strong similarities in the products AND the names.
For MySQL AB to protect their trademark, they need to ask NuSphere to not use their trademarked name in a confusing and (what they most likely consider) abusive manner. Just like I can't set up Foogiston Systems, Ltd. and make Foogiston Ltd. flooglebinders, MySQL AB shouldn't let NuSphere sell a modified version of their GPL'd software from the mysql.org website.
The issue with gTLDs being useful in that "different entitiees with the same name can have a domain with their name in it" doesn't hold when similar, or in this case nearly the same, product is being sold. I won't address the rest of your remarks, because I feel that your whole argument is flawed as shown above.
---------The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
I wonder what Mr. Taco would have thought if three years ago (before the Andover takeover), someone set up a site called www.slashdot.com that had embraced and extended Slashcode and was selling it and support for it to websites without giving a dime to him. I think that he would be singing a different tune.
This is a fundamental problem with the "information wants to be free" argument that some people use to justify their Napster & software warezing/pirating habits: "It's just information (trademarks, music, etc.), and it should be free for me to do whatever I want to do with it". Unless it's my name, music, code, graphics, etc., etc. Then you find that you have to defend it.
This is a trademark issue. If you register a trademark, you have to defend it, or you won't be able to defend it in the future. I don't see any problem with someone saying, "Hey. I registered Foogiston, Inc. and www.foogiston.com, and I don't want you registering www.foogiston.org". What would have been better would be to register foogiston.org yourself, but if you got beat to the punch, you should still be able to tell someone not to use your trademark in their name.
I know that a lot of people don't like intellectual property here, but really. This is something that has precident and is defensible in court. I also don't like the language in the press release, becuase it shows a lack of maturity and professionalism on the part of MySQL AB, but that's doesn't detract from the core of their arguement.
Just my $0.02.
---------The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Just last night I looked into the possibility of running slashcode on my website. So, I read the FAQ and saw that I needed mysql installed. I instinctively went to www.mysql.org and downloaded the source. Now this morning I read this article, and I have no idea if I downloaded the 'official' mySQL or not! This is name dilution at its worst, and something needs to be done to stop confusing clueless newbies such as myself.
I think that if someone did that to my project I'd be kinda peeved too... by not pointing people at the GPL portion of the project's main site, they are just asking for project splits. If I make a change, and I've only looked at mysql.org, I'd never know who to tell about my change to get it in the main distro....
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Yeah, it's fast and supports transactions. BUT, at least in the last stable release, there were still some nasty catches. One I do recall was that the database could have no more than 1023 tables of the gemini type.
So if you do use it, make damn sure you read the docs on it and use it wisely given its limitations. IMHO, all of the new table types designed to give MySQL ACID-level database behavior have flaws, so you'd be better off using something with more mature suport if you need this (like PostgreSQL or a commercial rdbms).
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So exactly whom among you thought that Adobe should burn in hell for daring to ask kIllustrator to change its name? Who among those now think that MySQL.org ought to change ITS name?
It occurs to me that there are a lot of sheep wandering aimlessly; with no clue as to what is going on. Folks, you cant have it both ways.
Taco, how about it? Poll this, I'd love to see the results.
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Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
- "mysql.com and mysql.org are COMPLETELY different. I don't see how could anyone could POSSIBLY confuse the two."
- "If MySQL AB doesn't instantly sue NuSphere for everything they've got, they lose their right to the trademark."
- "NuSphere should move to Sealand. Or Afghanistan."
- ...
The notion that seems really foreign around here, though, is that there are issues of respect and courtesy that go beyond what you think the law could possibly allow you to get away with. If you want to run mysql.org, clear it first with the company that makes MySql.Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.
MySQL(TM) should have registered...
MySQL.com
MySQL.net
MySQL.org
MySQL.co.uk
MySQL.gov
MySQL.mil
MySQL.mars
etc...
...when they had the chance. That's what almost every other company does. Even slashdot (www.slashdot.org, www.slashdot.com).
For one, if you go to mysql.org you will find that it doesn't say whether it developed the software, it just says it's got mysql software available for 'free' download. But the mysql.com guy is correct, in that you cannot download any software without registering with mysql.org first. That indicates to me that it's not 'free' because now mysql.org has customer data to use to market their product to. Plus, it doesn't say: "Hey, we didn't write the software, mysql.com is where you can find that info. We just improved upon it." Besides, I don't think .org websites should ever be for-profit businesses as that is not how that domain was intended to be used.
Isn't it self contradictory on one hand to produce a product as Open Source...while fighting vigorously to protect the trademark?
It's not hypocritical at all. It's very important that when a name like "MySQL" or "Perl" or "Linux" represents a standard for compatibility, that name remain meaningful. If it weren't for trademark law, malicious companies could embrace and subvert all our open-source languages by creating their own incompatible versions, releasing the code, and stealing the brand in public perception with a big marketing blitz. Most people are not going to take the time to sort it out if many sites are providing different versions of Perl, and if Microsoft pre-installed a "Perl" that only ran under Windows and allowed embedded Visual Basic, people would use it and think it's Perl. Only trademark law prevents them from doing this.
AbiWord uses this combination of copyright (to keep the code open) and trademark (to keep the name meaningful), and they have a nice FAQ about the AbiWord trademark which explains both the legal and the philosophical issues (see also this post).
All of that said, the real issue here is that MySQL was dumb not to register every available form of their domain.
If you are going to go all proprietary software on us, why don't you just go all the way and get a real database from Oracle or Sybase, so the response time aren't so shitty.
Is your company running tools written by ma
Isn't it self contradictory on one hand to produce a product as Open Source - releasing the content IP to the world freely - while fighting vigorously to protect the trademark - restricting identification/brand name IP from the world?
Not at all. Trademarks exist so that an individual company that has built good will based on a particular, recognizable product name will not have that good will hijacked by others seeking to either slander it or profit from it. This may be even more relevant in the open-source world, where anyone can take your source code and do what they want with it.
Say I release an open-source software package called Foo. The package receives a following and I decide to trademark the name.
Example 1: Somebody takes the source and corrupts it (e.g., by opening security holes), then releases a competing package also called Foo. The public becomes confused because of this "bad Foo", and good will based around my package called Foo is lost, due to this competing version.
Example 2: A company -- let's call them MacroSoft -- takes the source and uses it to release a closed source version which they call "Foo for MacroSoft". Let's say I used a license other than GPL so that there's no licensing issue, and they sell the product for a tidy profit. In this case MacroSoft is profiting on the good will created by my hard work, even though they did very little themselves, while I see nothing.
So, in other words, to prevent OS projects from becoming corrupted, I believe trademarking is not only consistent with the aims of OS, but necessary for it.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Also remember, MySQL has to defend its trademark, or run the risk of losing it. (IANAL)
GreyPoopon
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GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?