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Senator Seeks Injuction Against WinXP
Hiro_Later writes "Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee has asked state prosecutors to seek an injunction blocking the launch of Windows XP. His reasoning? "Without 'significant changes,' new technologies might never get the opportunity to compete." Microsoft of course disagrees arguing instead that XP will bring more choices and content to consumers not less. What I find interesting is Schumer was formerly a skeptic of the government's antitrust case against Microsoft, perhaps he has seen the light. Judge for yourselves here." Update: 07/25 01:41 AM by H :So, based on the e-mail I've been getting, evidently people have forgotten that what submittors type is in italics. Like this. Notice how when I type here that is in normal type - if you've got other questions, please check out the FAQ. There's lots of fun information in there. We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.
As I sit here and read most of this, I am stunned at the complete lack of care or thought for the impact of what you are all suggesting. Do you not understand the implications?
So, because MSFT sold a piece of SW they will not support, everything should be released under the GPL if it's "old". Well, shoot, then every product ever released in the history of the world should be required to be released under the GPL.
Hey, even if it's not technology it should apply. Shoot, every restaurant I walk into should have the recipe, with full preparation instructions, for EVERY single dish they offer, posted right in the lobby. Coca Cola should provide complete preparation instructions so I can make my own coke products how I want them - just ingredients isn't enough.
I'm sure you have some reason to claim it's not the same, but it is. You are saying there should be no privately owned information. Fine, stop buying anything from anywhere you didn't get complete specifications, instructions, and tools from today. I'm sure you'll save a lot of money to spend on nothing.
What you fail to realize, is that MSFT is a business that spent billions of dollars on that product. I don't care if you like that or not. The kernel itself is still used today in Win2K and XP, and it is THEIR property.
The last thing I want is government that steps in at every chance to bully companies and people. As a matter of fact, I'm for a much smaller government, and sadly, we're going the opposite way. Beat MSFT by being better - don't look for someone else to solve your problems.
Linux will not beat MSFT in a consumer market because it has NO consumer strategy right now. Change that. You think innovation is a "MSFT joke"? Fine, hopefully someone who cares about innovation will push you aside and do it themselves.
People like Linus didn't whine and look for the government to shutdown MSFT before trying to make a difference. I'm saddened by the whining - I hear how MSFT whines, but it sounds the same on this end to, and it's SAD. Make a difference, don't bitch about it.
For every person here who says that the government should force this or the government should force that - go and start a company that DOES what you are saying. Don't try to alter the future by lobbying, because it has a serious impact in the future that is very scary. The reality is I could go buy Maces today - I have a Mac at home. I can run Linux. It's not like I don't HAVE choices. Yes, I understand MSFT is evil, bad bad, and they did bad things, they did this and they did that. Fine compete against them. It takes people to make a difference and innovate.
# Hack the planet, it's important.
Are you kidding me? Linux is one giant beta test.
OK, so we have more "wah wah, Microsoft's being a bully" from a prominent US citizen. Good for him, good for us, they're as guilty as sin, ad nauseium, ad infenitem.
The main problem we have here is that Microsoft keeps on "innovating" on Windows to the point of sucking money from people and businesses addicted to thier OS and main stay applications. Fair enough - let them have thier "innovations" - but only those developed over the last 5 years.
IIRC, support for NT will be pulled in 2002. So, the Government should force Micorsoft to release the source code for NT 4.0 SP6a under the GPL after the support is pulled. The whole steaming pile of it. It's 2 versions behind, so should be berift of thier "innovations" and no problem at all to GPL. If thier new products are truly innovative, they'll still sell millions of copies, right?
On the consumer side, it would allow interested parties to maintain thier current environment, the more industrious (some would say insane) to improve on what's there, others could develop competeing products *cough*SAMBA*cough* on other architectures and others still to develop really competive apps for Windows and/or other platforms under WIN32.
IMHO, no one is better able to compete with Microsoft than themselves.
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
> when I read the following paragraph from the article:
"Windows has always been designed as an open platform that creates new business opportunities for many third parties, including some of our toughest competitors"
It does create new business opportunities... as in "find another line of work".
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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
The whole bundling issue comes from the fact that the Antitrust Act says that you can't use a legally obtained monopoly in one market to leverage a monopoly (unfairly, without competition) in another market. This is why, back in the '70s or there about, the government wouldn't let Kodak bundle processing (a market in which they did not have a huge presence) with their film (which was a monopoly at the time).
The fact is that the rules are different for monopolies than for non-monopolies. Monopolies have to be careful what they bundle so as to not leverage one monopoly, which may have been legally obtained through competition, to unfairly gain another. Non-monopolies don't have this concern.
Moves by Apple to bundle extra software would probably not be seen as anticompetitive because they only have 5% of the market. The same goes for Linux which has even less (of the desktop market anyway).
I think out of all the following:
Microsoft Legal, Microsoft Applications, Microsoft Hardware, Microsoft Marketing, Microsoft Operating system
The two I'd be most afraid of are: Microsoft Legal and Microsoft Marketing.
They are the only two departments in Microsoft that have enough chutzpah to kill their own parents, and then beg for mercy because they have recently become orphans.
It's entirely possible that windows is increasing the cost of our hardware, because it all has to be compatable with the original IBM. If you can redesign the hardware to take advantage of new technology, you can use cheaper/better/faster components.
Apparently [Schumer's] check from Microsoft didn't come in this month.
It might have more to do with AOL and Eastman Kodak being New York corporations.
It was one thing when California corporations (i.e. Netscape) are having their apps squeezed out by Microsoft. But when it's New York corporations that's a whole different matter. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Congress should pass a law that half of all future taxpayer funded PC purchases will come with a non Microsoft OS.
The Court should do several remedial steps, each tailored directly at undoing the harm caused by the specific anticompetive practices Microsoft has done:
1. OS Monopoly countermeasure: uniform licencing. MS may offer one version of its OS at one price. No sale may be refused. OEMs may make any noninfringing value added modification they choose. The Court should reassess every two years if this measure is still needed.
2. Java countermeasure: MS must bundle Sun's version of Java and any java related extras desired by Sun. Reassess every two years
3. Comingling of code: Mandate full disclosure of API's found to be involved. If Browser bundling is found to be anticompetitive on remand, force MS to distrubute Netscape and Opera. Similarly with other media programs. Reassess every two years.
Simple.
And to the troll who suggested that Microsoft should be able to do anything they want: Microsoft has a monopoly. They can, on a whim, force companies to pay them money, even it means laying off employees: like when they tried to raise fees earlier this year but charitably gave a 6-month stay so companies could rebudget. They illegally attacked Java, fragmented it, and now refuse to support in XP. They forced Apple, a third company, to use their web browser or they would kill a completely unrelated product. This is not a company that you want to leave alone because they promise to be good.
It's time the US got as tough on them as they would on anyone who engages on illegal behavior.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
I think they should split off hardware, legal and marketing. We can call them MS-good, MS-bad and MS-ugly.
after spending $$$millions on usability testing...
don't you mean making millions on usability testing? the way I see it, I've been paying to beta test for M$ since win3.1.
I don't want to beta test. I use linux.
Fish
I even bought my dad Neal Stephenson's In the beginning was the command line... so that he could better understand the open source vs proprietary debate.
I think if people are informed as to what they are getting into by people they know, they will not fall prey to MS's marketing machine and want to upgrade or purchase XP.
- tokengeekgrrl
when I read the following paragraph from the article:
"Windows has always been designed as an open platform that creates new business opportunities for many third parties, including some of our toughest competitors," Krumholtz wrote.
I suppose that explains their open api, their open standard for COM, their open file formats, etc. And here I guess I had them figure wrong all along.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
It might play well in Peoria, but it is of course complete and utter nonsense. It simply isn't true that our only choices are restricted to "Workers unite!" Sovietism and "Greasing the wheels of industry with the blood of the proletariat" capitalism.
Much of the American experiment has dealt with searching for that third way.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
The boycott, involving a simple refusal to upgrade to Windows XP, would probably have a great effect on what really bothers me, and that is MS foray into .NET. I think the Senator is talking about stuff like this, Windows Media Player 8, Windows Movie Maker, and Digital Photo Support...
.NET empire.
Here is some good "white-hat" FUD from zdnet (whom I always thought was somewhat of a lackey for MS, being descended from PC Magazine, but yay for them for speaking truth). A quote: Among the new features: an Internet firewall, an integrated media player with CD-burning and DVD-playback features, remote access tools, moviemaking and photo-editing software, wireless capabilities, broadband networking and Internet messaging.
The long list of new features potentially puts an even longer list of companies in Microsoft's crosshairs, including Adobe Systems, Apple Computer, AOL Time Warner, Corel, InterVideo, MGI, Netopia, Network Ice, RealNetworks, Roxio, Ulead, Zone Labs, Symantec and as many as 20 other companies.
Oh, and the article reminded me that XP seeks to reduce the quality of MP3's in half (how do they do that? I mean, isn't Winamp Winamp?), and that DVD's won't work with MS Media Player alone.
So, yah, boycott by not upgrading. I read somewhere that people are afraid to buy new boxen because they feel they will lose half their data and capabilities in the transition. Maybe they should be afraid to lose half their identity, their privacy, their rights, and quite possibly their mind (er, BSOD reference here) by upgrading themselves into the
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
hang on, if winXP doesn't introduce any useful new features then how can it adversely affect microsoft's competitors?
From the article...
AOL Time Warner (AOL: news, chart, profile) and Eastman Kodak (EK: news, chart, profile) are both based in New York.
Yup, he has seen the light, he has to protect home businesses. What do you think the probability that these companies lobbied this senator and convinced him to take action?
Steve Magruder
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
If XP were blocked, the computer industry might not recover at all this year.
It's not the duty of consumers to prop up criminal monopolies or support a business sector that isn't innovating and providing products that are actually useful. Period.
Heck, we need a break from "Upgrade-itis" anyway. :)
Steve Magruder
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Maybe... I'm not sure. So far, Microsoft has expertly manipulated the system by exploiting the shifting sands of the technology world. First, they fight tooth and nail to keep IE integrated with windows because they's the only way they can win the browser war, then they seperate the two products because the browser war has become irelevent since web inspired technology integrated with such clients as media players and Instant Messaging clients (as well as set top boxes) allows for marketing channels which didn't previously exist.
Then when they come under fire for inappropriately restrictive OEM licensing, they shift their strategy from selling desktop space, to selling marketing links inside applications - a far more insideous advertising mechanism.
Recently microsoft has been charged with price gouging with regard to it's office applications. Interesting that this was shortly before Microsoft introduced Smart Tags for OfficeXP. At some point users will object to paying $89 every two years to upgrade their OS, and Microsoft will have to give it away for free - and they know this. At that point though, there will be so much insideous built-in advertising in the OS, it won't matter because Microsoft will have a residual revenue stream greater than the revenue stream from user purchases of the OS.
For these reasons, it's great to see that politicians are finally becoming aware of the issues surrounding this company's manipulation of an entire industry. As for weather or not an injunction against the sale of WindowsXP is the proper remedy, I really couldn't say. It's just good to see recognission of the issues by legislators that might be able to do something about the problem.
--CTH
--
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Microsoft is guilty. Why should they be allowed to morph thier guilty product during an appeal?
It's like the justic department is saying'I know your are guilty of making a product to enhance your monopoly but it's okay to keep selling it and improving your monopoly position while we decice how punish you." HELLO! "Yes, are a mass murderer and are guilty. You may still practice and improving your murdering skills while we decide what to do with you." Am I off base here?
Two Towers-Two Worlds.One seeks triumphs and freedom for man.The other deems man unworthy and wrecks them.
This is the attitude I hear from a lot of geeks. Unfortunately, what you are not realizing is this: Cosmetic changes in the OS are major revolutions to users! They see a "My Pictures" folder with thumbnails and stuff, and they think "Wow! I can keep digital pictures in here. Windows XP lets me manage pictures!" They don't know that they could manage pictures equally well with Win98 or any other OS. They see a button in the sidebar for "E-mail this file" and they think "Wow! I can e-mail a file to somebody! Windows XP lets me e-mail files!" Never mind that any e-mail client on the planet can send attatchments, the idea never occured to them before to send files. Soon they will be E-mailing their digital picture collections all over the Internet, saying "Look at all the neat stuff Windows XP lets me do!"
Windows XP doesn't add new capabilities - it just informs the user of the capabilities they have always had. Don't kid yourself though: to normal users, who never knew just what capabilities they had, its a revolution in technology.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
This is not a direct benefit to consumers and is a protectionist action on behalf of other corporations located in NYS, like Kodak.
Perhaps someone should point out to Sen. Schumer that the consumer edition of XP will include a remote deactivation backdoor placed in the OS by Microsoft that could be used to leverage their monopoly position to force users into unnecessary upgrades at Microsoft's whim.
Considering Microsoft's "stellar" security record, even Sen. Schumer should be able comprehend the danger of having a backdoor capable of deactivating your OS in so many voter... err... users machines...
The senator isn't the only one seeking injunction .... this CNet article indicates that InterTrust is also seeking injunction in addition to their lawsuit against MS.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.