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New Moon Formation Model

msheppard writes "This ariticle at Scientific American describes a new computer model describing the formation of the moon. "It is also strikingly similar to the first proposed impact theory 25 years ago, before computer simulations were available.""

12 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. Space.com article by apsmith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Space.com has another version with more graphics.

    Except the article refers to a consensus reached 25 years ago, but I believe the actual "collision with a Mars-sized body" consensus came from the Kona, Hawaii meeting in 1984. So that's only 17 years... And basically this model is just an incremental improvement (will a big increment - 20,000 body simulation instead of 3,000) over previous simulations of the process. Still interesting though!

    It does lend some

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    Energy: time to change the picture.

  2. Re:General Agreement? by dair · · Score: 3, Informative
    Is this really the case? Last time I sat through astronomy in college they still seemed to make a lot of the "concurrent development" theory. Has that been shown wrong recently?
    The problem is (or so I believe, never having taken an astronomy course in my life) that the Earth has a large amount of iron in its core - whereas the moon has almost no iron. If the Earth and moon coalesced out of the same matter at the same time, you'd expect them to have a similar composition.

    The easiest way to explain the difference was to claim that the Earth was hit by another object which sloughed off part of the surface, leaving the core largely unchanged. The problem has been getting the timing and mass right: this simulation shows that it had to be about a Mars-sized object at a specific time - any bigger or smaller, or at a different time, and you need multiple collisions to obtain the Earth and moon as we see them today.

    -dair (like I say, not an astronomer - just going by what I read in the paper this morning)
  3. Oh troll, thou hath contradicted thyself by Marvin_OScribbley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course, this all works fine during the day, but what about at night? Even the liberals can't control the rotation of the Earth to prevent nightfall from setting in (only Joshua was able to ask for that particular favor!)

    (emphasis mine)

    But then our friend goes on to claim:

    There is no mention of the "moon" anywhere in literature or historical documents -- anywhere -- before 1950.

    Nice try, but you just referenced Joshua 10:12 in the Old Testament (written WAY before 1950, something that EVERYONE will agree on...):

    12 Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, "O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon."

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  4. Why this model is important by meckardt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While it isn't likely that present day Earth will encounter another impactor such as may have formed the moon, legitimization of the theory behind this model goes a long way to giving planetary astronomers a better understanding of how planetary systems are formed. If they can't explain how WE got here, then its really difficult to conclude one way or another that similar systems are or are not out there.

    1. Re:Why this model is important by mmol_6453 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Greek philosophers theorized. No set-out tests, observations or proofs.

      I'm not against gathering evidence, but a conclusion is the worst possible thing that can happen in science.

      If one concludes that something is true, then the subject looses interest. People loose interest in the subject. Lines of research loose funding. The theory isn't challenged. Potential for advancement is lost.

      "Nothing can be proved, only disproved."

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      What's this Submit thingy do?
    2. Re:Why this model is important by Alien54 · · Score: 3, Informative

      On a separate, but slightly related angle, there was a paper released a couple months back (see CNN Story) that came to the conclusion that something very weird happened in the Solar system about 65 million years ago. Studies of ocean sediment patterns reveal that the earth has been going through a 400,000 year climate cycle that is directly related to planetary distance. The problem is that these patterns change at about 65 million years ago. This is obviously related to the asteriod thast knocked of the dinosaurs.

      Fringe groups have been looking at this and speculated that this is when the asteroids were formed, and when mars got its weird pattern of craters that cover only half the planet. You can download a nicely done 60 page document of this sort of thing (PDF - HTML). Unfortunately, the authors like to occasionally bring in things that are not relevant, so it sort of ruins the flavor, but it is not bad, and interesting reading, even if you do not take it seriously.

      Which of course goes brings up all kinds of interesting speculations on just how common are planetary collisions in the first place.

      - - -

      White House Selected Vegetables Coffee Mug

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  5. God DOES play dice with the universe by jack+deadmeat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or pinball.

  6. Nothing to see here, move along . . . by Ezubaric · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm no astrophysics guru, but this simulation seems to merely confirm the possible a theory rather than put forward a valid creation model as a contender for cannon. Wouldn't the same sort of thing have to be done for every other possible creation scenario before we could get anything approaching conclusive confirmation?

    Showing that something works is inconclusive . . . showing that everything else doesn't work is better.

    Example: Two is the only even prime number. Proof: Two can be divided by one and two. Viola!

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    I am an expert in electricity. My father held the chair of applied electricity at the state prision.
  7. Re:An article about the model, but no grapics? by StaticEngine · · Score: 4, Informative
  8. The "Moon": A Ridiculous Liberal Myth by sharkticon · · Score: 5, Funny

    It amazes me that so many allegedly "educated" people have fallen so quickly and so hard for a fraudulent fabrication of such laughable proportions. The very idea that a gigantic ball of rock happens to orbit our planet, showing itself in neat, four-week cycles -- with the same side facing us all the time -- is ludicrous. Furthermore, it is an insult to common sense and a damnable affront to intellectual honesty and integrity. That people actually believe it is evidence that the liberals have wrested the last vestiges of control of our public school system from decent, God-fearing Americans (as if any further evidence was needed! Daddy's Roommate? God Almighty!)

    Documentaries such as Enemy of the State have accurately portrayed the elaborate, byzantine network of surveillance satellites that the liberals have sent into space to spy on law-abiding Americans. Equipped with technology developed by Handgun Control, Inc., these satellites have the ability to detect firearms from hundreds of kilometers up. That's right, neighbors .. the next time you're out in the backyard exercising your Second Amendment rights, the liberals will see it! These satellites are sensitive enough to tell the difference between a Colt .45 and a .38 Special! And when they detect you with a firearm, their computers cross-reference the address to figure out your name, and then an enormous database housed at Berkeley is updated with information about you.

    Of course, this all works fine during the day, but what about at night? Even the liberals can't control the rotation of the Earth to prevent nightfall from setting in (only Joshua was able to ask for that particular favor!) That's where the "moon" comes in. Powered by nuclear reactors, the "moon" is nothing more than an enormous balloon, emitting trillions of candlepower of gun-revealing light. Piloted by key members of the liberal community, the "moon" is strategically moved across the country, pointing out those who dare to make use of their God-given rights at night!

    Yes, I know this probably sounds paranoid and preposterous, but consider this. Despite what the revisionist historians tell you, there is no mention of the "moon" anywhere in literature or historical documents -- anywhere -- before 1950. That is when it was initially launched. When President Josef Kennedy, at the State of the Union address, proclaimed "We choose to go to the moon", he may as well have said "We choose to go to the weather balloon." The subsequent faking of a "moon" landing on national TV was the first step in a long history of the erosion of our constitutional rights by leftists in this country. No longer can we hide from our government when the sun goes down.

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  9. Billiards. by Rimbo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Billiards.

    Earth-ball in the corner pocket...

  10. Cool...Now lets paint it... by swordboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Check out this moron. Paint the moon!

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    Life is the leading cause of death in America.