Slashdot Mirror
Neuron Lithography Technique
An Anonymous Coward writes: "EE Times has an article about a new technique to build custom-designed networks from biological neurons using chip lithography and polymers to steer the growth of the neurons . Some of the first computers were described as "electronic brains" to the unwashed masses - will researchers have to describe these as "biological computers"?"
Yup
but let me suggest this is post is FAST. In fact its so god damn FAST it would make Keanu Reeves head spin !
sp!
What? That makes little or no sense. Trolls don't even have any substance anymore. What a sad day this is for Slashdot.org. Hey, where's the ascii-art guy? That stuff is teh win
Even more proof that God hates Catholics. Those un-american, pope-loving scum can all be attacked by pit-bulls, for all I care.
wow i'm posting this comment and i don't even know what the headline was never mind the story.
heh.
Why don't you sick perverted trolls go to stileproject where you belong. Have some respect for the dead.
Indeed!
yup, thinkgeek is cheesy.
copyleft is way better.
But since it doens't have a giant (but failing fast) corporation like VA Linux behind it to waste cash on banner ads all over the place no one knows about it.
I'm afraid, Dave.
Dave, my mind is going.
I can feel it.
I can feel it.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Fuck off you kike lover!
Gloria Knowles, who works for Abaco Air Ltd. at Marsh Harbour airport, said baggage handlers reported the plane was overloaded with niggers.
She said the handlers and the plane's pilot complained about the heavy niggers but the passengers insisted on taking every nigger with them.
Dead or alive, you are coming with me!
Naturally, CmdrTaco et al. have corrected the bug. However, Michelle Simms, not content with a gracious bug report, proceeded to delete the comment. Yes, I tell you truly, for the second time in its history Slashdot has gone against its self-stated principles and has censored a comment.
Friends, the time has come to unite against Michelle's foul regime. Only by demanding that CmdrTaco finds a replacement for this unAmericam Censorship Nazi will we ever be able to use the Internet freely again.
Oh yeah, and Eminem and Stephen King are dead too. And Britney Spears crashed her Ferrari.
Now I hear your mom wants her computer back, so you better go watch Teletubbies or something.
I'm a cop you idiot!
this BBC article says she is. Pretty good, to get a genuine "is dead" for once...
I thought it was one of those hoaxes again.
SPF is on fuckin strike dammit
so shut up and post some dead baby jokes here ya schmuck *fap* *fap*
BWAHAHAHA, hehhe ahhhh that was mad funny dude.
Why did they have to take off every 'nig'? why couldn't they have left the cotton picking machines behind.
Is it completely impossible for you people to show a tiny little bit of respect, at all?
Aaliyah, rest in peace.
Yes, I'm wasting karma, I don't care.
your mom ate my balls
Yes I do. I especially hate fat lard-ass welfare queens
for great justice
move 'nig'
I can't do nuttin for ya man, Neury Nueron got problems of his own.
word up.
Why don't you take that shit to some lame site like kuroshin where a bunch of stuffy under sexed nerds who flip through the thesaurus looking for smart sounding words can offer a out of touch with reality communist opinion on it.
Ok tonto.
Get lost.
People will make up all kinds of lies just for karma, it's disgusting.
I don't like Jews.
I doubt that's true. The web page you link to seems like a troll fabrication. Give me a way to independently confirm this and you've convinced me.
Man shut the fuck up ok.
They deleted my "shovel-bird" post... :-\
(Remember to disable JavaScript to avoid the annoying ad pop-up screens)
Where is the parent of this reply? Enough with the censorship, we're adults and can form our own opinions.
shut up spic.
hope you don't get what I got
They don't know or feel about anything anymore, so why should we respect them?
8====D <----- my cock
(_o_) <----- your poop chute
*drip* *drip*
huh?
___....---"""".
." ". L \
/ \ N i
i i i
i__ _ i U i
" "\\ i i
|| i X i
__.// i _ . - "i
\ i- " i
i ii L i
\ / i i
"._.--"i N i
i i
i U i
i _i
i X _.-"
i _.-"
i-"
* Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic.
* Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
* Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
* Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
* Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal
Slashdot almost has 4 hours of continous uptime!
Go open source go!
Anyone know where i can download a warez copy of sourceforge enterprise edition?
Now that VA Linux sells closed source software like Microsoft maybe one of you warez d00dz can hook me up?
so taco how does it feel to be the sole source of income for VA Linux HAHA
faq
code
osdn
awards
privacy
journals
older stuff
rob's page
preferences
submit story
advertising
supporters
past polls
topics
about
bugs
jobs
hof
Sections
815
apache
824 1
askslashdot
810
books
826 1
bsd
823
developers
814
features
822
interviews
629
radio
825 3
science
824 1
yro
OSDN
freshmeat
Linux.com
SourceForge
ThinkGeek
NewsForge
SlashCode
Neuron Lithography Technique
Posted by michael on Sunday August 26, 0351AM
from the brain2.0 dept.
An Anonymous Coward writes "EE Times has an article about a new technique to build customdesigned networks from biological neurons using chip lithography and polymers to steer the growth of the neurons . Some of the first computers were described as "electronic brains" to the unwashed masses will researchers have to describe these as "biological computers"?"
CVS Infrastructure
iamklerck 445579
Preferences
Related Links
article
More on Technology
Also by michael
Science
Rumble in the Airwaves
Stem Cell Problems Slow Research
Brookhaven Physicists Produce "Doubly Strange Nuclei"
Scientific Elites vs. Illiterates
New LED Backlights For LCD Screens
Fine Structure Time Service
Utilities Included?
The Rise and Fall of Los Angeles
Optical Computers with Starfish Components?
Magnetic Fluid Art
Neuron Lithography Technique Preferences Top 105 comments Search Discussion
Threshold 1 105 comments 0 93 comments 1 26 comments 2 12 comments 3 3 comments 4 0 comments 5 0 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First Ignore Threads Newest First Ignore Threads Save
The Fine Print The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
i got th Score1
by insomniac on Sunday August 26, 0351AM 2217683
User 33758 Info
efirst o0st
insomniac
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0521AM 2217786
I woulda had first post but i was to busy burning this RTM copy of WinXP Pro...
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0618AM 2217843
8====D my cock
o your poop chute
drip drip
Reply to This Parent
Good GOD... Score2
by Soko NOrsokoloski1SPhome.AMcom on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217688
User 17987 Info httpmembers.home.netrsokoloski1
People call me a Chiphead now. With this, I'm really fscked.
Soko
What the hell, it's only Karma.
Reply to This Parent
ReGood GOD... Score2
by ElJefe on Sunday August 26, 0510AM 2217769
User 41718 Info httpazureforest.caltech.edu
People call me a Chiphead now.
Maybe you should take the Pringles out of your ears. Just a suggestion...
Chris
Reply to This Parent
2nd? Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217689
Yup
Reply to This Parent
neurolithography is antiquated! Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0357AM 2217691
but let me suggest this is post is FAST. In fact its so god damn FAST it would make Keanu Reeves head spin !
Reply to This Parent
Second post Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0358AM 2217694
sp!
Reply to This Parent
hmmm Score1
by jupiter$spectre on Sunday August 26, 0400AM 2217698
User 444183 Info
and in the neverending quest for an artificially created brain, scientists are now making circuits out of brain cells! woohoo!
um, no.
Reply to This Parent
Hey... Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0401AM 2217699
Why don't you go fucking get a motherfucking life you god damned jew?
Reply to This Parent
the Jews are the problem Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0543AM 2217816
Jews really suck. Jews really suck.
I don't like Jews 206.244.69.51.
Reply to This Parent
Heh.. Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0406AM 2217702
ThinkGeek SUCKS! Fuck them!
Reply to This Parent
ReHeh.. Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0432AM 2217730
yup, thinkgeek is cheesy.
copyleft copyleft.net is way better.
But since it doens't have a giant but failing fast corporation like VA Linux behind it to waste cash on banner ads all over the place no one knows about it.
Reply to This Parent
Stop it! Stop whining! Score2, Funny
by Anonymous DWord on Sunday August 26, 0409AM 2217706
User 466154 Info
My CPU is a neural net processor a learning computer.
Reply to This Parent
ReStop it! Stop whining! Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0455AM 2217756
I'm a cop you idiot!
Reply to This Parent
shut up Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0411AM 2217708
what a load of bunk. this is all falsifalities and untruthified bunk. i'd prove it, but it's not even worth it, because you are all too stupid to understand anyways. ignorant snotballs, you can install mandrake and you think you are god. the last thing i want to hear is your bitching, so get the hell out of here you worthless pile of mentally retarded spooge.
Reply to This Parent
Reshut up Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217712
What? That makes little or no sense. Trolls don't even have any substance anymore. What a sad day this is for Slashdot.org. Hey, where's the asciiart guy? That stuff is teh win
Reply to This Parent
ASCII art Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0555AM 2217827
They deleted my "shovelbird" post...
Reply to This Parent
The strength of neurons Score3, Insightful
by Glowing Fish mnoelharrisonmapsursine.dyndns.org on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217713
User 155236 Info httpursine.dyndns.org~mnoelharris
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it, artificially causing neurons to grow rules out of one of their main strengths.
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
If you are directing neurons into what direction they are growing totally, then what you have is a really squishy computer circuit.
Hopefully I didn't put any around my words...
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by James Lanfear on Sunday August 26, 0506AM 2217763
User 34124 Info
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it
There have been two potential applications I've seen mentioned.
Biosensors. This doesn't have much to do with neurons per se, but with having access to very good chemical sensors that can be interfaced to other equipment. Neurons fit these requirements, at least for a limited range of chemicals.
HumanMachine interfaces, and specifically, interfaces for prosthetics. The problems with the neurochips that you point out could work in their favor in this area you could have relatively controlled, deterministic behavior, but in a form that is far easier to "plug in" to the nervous system than silicon. Naturally, they would also be excellent for interfacing instruments to nervous systems for research purposes.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score3, Informative
by dragonsflight on Sunday August 26, 0534AM 2217803
User 515217 Info httpbounce.toBobby
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
It's not that simple. Basic nueroscience of the poke and see what happens variety recognizes that the brain is composed of many massively interconnected functional groups. In everyone the centers for speech, math, motor skills, etc. are roughly located in the same places. Yes nature can compensate for damage in some cases, but retraining parts to do other work is slower and often less effective than the original
People and animals are genetically coded to design brains in certain ways. Merely having lots of nuerons doesn't guarantee intelligence or functionality. A lot of it has to do with where inputs come in and where the outputs go out and how the groups are connected along the way. Also there are different types of nuerons with different nuerotransmitters and degrees of interconnectedness.
That said, yes the nuerons to some degree govern themselves. An architechture is built up and then nuerons respond in complicated and individual ways to some, as yet poorly understood, system for learning and development. If the brain really is all there is to intelligence than memory and learning have to be a product of something the nuerons are doing. Unless there is some uber mechanism directing all the nuerons, then learning has to be a natural result of what nuerons. Crudely put this might be divided into two categories as we understand it today
Nuerons like to fire in the same patterns they've seen before.
Nuerons like to make new connections.
Thoughts, especially memories, aren't random, they are similar to thoughts that have occured before. Roughly speaking it appears that the brain likes doing things it has done before, and thus learning. One way this is accomplished is by strengthening connections between nerves that have fired together in the past and weakening ones that don't often fire together.
The second thing is that nerves do like to grow. Not so much that it makes the brain random or chaotic, but enough to allow new patterns to be formed and improve on existing ones for instance shortening the number of nuerons a common path goes through.
No one really understands how it all interacts, or how the features of nuerons relate to our preferences for certain outcomes over others e.g. what in the brains causes pleasures to be reinforced and painful experiences to be avoided. This is however a good first step at being able to study nueronal circuitry in a highly controlled way.
Besides if you really expect functional "squishy" computers than something has to provide the initial framework that genetics and evolution has arranged in the animal kingdom. Build some nueron groups in meaningful ways, provide some mechanism for learning in an inputoutput environment perhaps similar to how people try to train nueral computer networks, and then remove the restrictions on growth and connectedness and let the structures optimize and develop themselves.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0635AM 2217855
User 218435 Info
IAANS I am a neuroscientist.
I think the best immediate application for this kind of technology is not in constructign useful biological circuits, but in doing basic research on the properties of the nerve cells themselves. Traditionally, most of our knowledge about how nerve cells operate has come from studies of single cells in isolation, and in vitro recording. Neither of these techniques give very much information about the mechanisms which govern interaction between neurons, especially in the ways that their growth and behavior is influenced by neighboring cells. A technique which allows us to control the growth of a nerve culture would be a great tool for studying those interactions, becaue you would be able to more tightly control the interactions present as opposed to blindly jamming electrodes into brains and trying to infer circuits and connections from correlations in firing patterns, which is more or less the standard technique.
Koch in Biophysics of Computation showed that given what we know about neurons, they can theoretically implement equivalents of addition, multiplication, feedback, and many other computations, all within a single cell! The range of possibilities is enourmous, and requires a controlled environment to study the different tyeps of interactions. This could be a very important tool for research.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
oops Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0646AM 2217865
User 218435 Info
sin vitroin vivo above. That is, electrodes in living animals. There has been some work on trying to study networks in vitro as well i.e., in an artificial cell culture grown on an electrode array, but it's quite difficultgood electrodes are hard to make small enough, and even on the best electrode arrays you have to rely on luck to provide you with cells that wind up close enough to the electrodes to provide a good signal, and you wtill have very little idea about how the cells are connected. Another problem is the neurons will tend to move around a bit, so it's hard to track changes over time in such a culture. These problems could also be helped by this technique, by controlling the growth of interconnections and keeping the cells happy in one place.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
Nun attacked by pitbulls in schoolyard Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0414AM 2217714
By Susan Snyder and Monica Rhor , INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
A Roman Catholic nun from Incarnation School in Olney was attacked by two pit bulls while walking the convent's dog in the school yard yesterday.
When Sister Barbara Koehler saw the two pit bulls lunge for the Jack Russell terrier, her first move was to rescue the terrified dog.
faq
code
osdn
awards
privacy
journals
older stuff
rob's page
preferences
submit story
advertising
supporters
past polls
topics
about
bugs
jobs
hof
Sections
815
apache
824 1
askslashdot
810
books
826 1
bsd
823
developers
814
features
822
interviews
629
radio
825 3
science
824 1
yro
OSDN
freshmeat
Linux.com
SourceForge
ThinkGeek
NewsForge
SlashCode
Neuron Lithography Technique
Posted by michael on Sunday August 26, 0351AM
from the brain2.0 dept.
An Anonymous Coward writes "EE Times has an article about a new technique to build customdesigned networks from biological neurons using chip lithography and polymers to steer the growth of the neurons . Some of the first computers were described as "electronic brains" to the unwashed masses will researchers have to describe these as "biological computers"?"
CVS Infrastructure
iamklerck 445579
Preferences
Related Links
article
More on Technology
Also by michael
Science
Rumble in the Airwaves
Stem Cell Problems Slow Research
Brookhaven Physicists Produce "Doubly Strange Nuclei"
Scientific Elites vs. Illiterates
New LED Backlights For LCD Screens
Fine Structure Time Service
Utilities Included?
The Rise and Fall of Los Angeles
Optical Computers with Starfish Components?
Magnetic Fluid Art
Neuron Lithography Technique Preferences Top 105 comments Search Discussion
Threshold 1 105 comments 0 93 comments 1 26 comments 2 12 comments 3 3 comments 4 0 comments 5 0 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First Ignore Threads Newest First Ignore Threads Save
The Fine Print The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
i got th Score1
by insomniac on Sunday August 26, 0351AM 2217683
User 33758 Info
efirst o0st
insomniac
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0521AM 2217786
I woulda had first post but i was to busy burning this RTM copy of WinXP Pro...
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0618AM 2217843
8====D my cock
o your poop chute
drip drip
Reply to This Parent
Good GOD... Score2
by Soko NOrsokoloski1SPhome.AMcom on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217688
User 17987 Info httpmembers.home.netrsokoloski1
People call me a Chiphead now. With this, I'm really fscked.
Soko
What the hell, it's only Karma.
Reply to This Parent
ReGood GOD... Score2
by ElJefe on Sunday August 26, 0510AM 2217769
User 41718 Info httpazureforest.caltech.edu
People call me a Chiphead now.
Maybe you should take the Pringles out of your ears. Just a suggestion...
Chris
Reply to This Parent
2nd? Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217689
Yup
Reply to This Parent
neurolithography is antiquated! Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0357AM 2217691
but let me suggest this is post is FAST. In fact its so god damn FAST it would make Keanu Reeves head spin !
Reply to This Parent
Second post Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0358AM 2217694
sp!
Reply to This Parent
hmmm Score1
by jupiter$spectre on Sunday August 26, 0400AM 2217698
User 444183 Info
and in the neverending quest for an artificially created brain, scientists are now making circuits out of brain cells! woohoo!
um, no.
Reply to This Parent
Hey... Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0401AM 2217699
Why don't you go fucking get a motherfucking life you god damned jew?
Reply to This Parent
the Jews are the problem Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0543AM 2217816
Jews really suck. Jews really suck.
I don't like Jews 206.244.69.51.
Reply to This Parent
Heh.. Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0406AM 2217702
ThinkGeek SUCKS! Fuck them!
Reply to This Parent
ReHeh.. Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0432AM 2217730
yup, thinkgeek is cheesy.
copyleft copyleft.net is way better.
But since it doens't have a giant but failing fast corporation like VA Linux behind it to waste cash on banner ads all over the place no one knows about it.
Reply to This Parent
Stop it! Stop whining! Score2, Funny
by Anonymous DWord on Sunday August 26, 0409AM 2217706
User 466154 Info
My CPU is a neural net processor a learning computer.
Reply to This Parent
ReStop it! Stop whining! Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0455AM 2217756
I'm a cop you idiot!
Reply to This Parent
shut up Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0411AM 2217708
what a load of bunk. this is all falsifalities and untruthified bunk. i'd prove it, but it's not even worth it, because you are all too stupid to understand anyways. ignorant snotballs, you can install mandrake and you think you are god. the last thing i want to hear is your bitching, so get the hell out of here you worthless pile of mentally retarded spooge.
Reply to This Parent
Reshut up Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217712
What? That makes little or no sense. Trolls don't even have any substance anymore. What a sad day this is for Slashdot.org. Hey, where's the asciiart guy? That stuff is teh win
Reply to This Parent
ASCII art Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0555AM 2217827
They deleted my "shovelbird" post...
Reply to This Parent
The strength of neurons Score3, Insightful
by Glowing Fish mnoelharrisonmapsursine.dyndns.org on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217713
User 155236 Info httpursine.dyndns.org~mnoelharris
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it, artificially causing neurons to grow rules out of one of their main strengths.
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
If you are directing neurons into what direction they are growing totally, then what you have is a really squishy computer circuit.
Hopefully I didn't put any around my words...
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by James Lanfear on Sunday August 26, 0506AM 2217763
User 34124 Info
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it
There have been two potential applications I've seen mentioned.
Biosensors. This doesn't have much to do with neurons per se, but with having access to very good chemical sensors that can be interfaced to other equipment. Neurons fit these requirements, at least for a limited range of chemicals.
HumanMachine interfaces, and specifically, interfaces for prosthetics. The problems with the neurochips that you point out could work in their favor in this area you could have relatively controlled, deterministic behavior, but in a form that is far easier to "plug in" to the nervous system than silicon. Naturally, they would also be excellent for interfacing instruments to nervous systems for research purposes.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score3, Informative
by dragonsflight on Sunday August 26, 0534AM 2217803
User 515217 Info httpbounce.toBobby
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
It's not that simple. Basic nueroscience of the poke and see what happens variety recognizes that the brain is composed of many massively interconnected functional groups. In everyone the centers for speech, math, motor skills, etc. are roughly located in the same places. Yes nature can compensate for damage in some cases, but retraining parts to do other work is slower and often less effective than the original
People and animals are genetically coded to design brains in certain ways. Merely having lots of nuerons doesn't guarantee intelligence or functionality. A lot of it has to do with where inputs come in and where the outputs go out and how the groups are connected along the way. Also there are different types of nuerons with different nuerotransmitters and degrees of interconnectedness.
That said, yes the nuerons to some degree govern themselves. An architechture is built up and then nuerons respond in complicated and individual ways to some, as yet poorly understood, system for learning and development. If the brain really is all there is to intelligence than memory and learning have to be a product of something the nuerons are doing. Unless there is some uber mechanism directing all the nuerons, then learning has to be a natural result of what nuerons. Crudely put this might be divided into two categories as we understand it today
Nuerons like to fire in the same patterns they've seen before.
Nuerons like to make new connections.
Thoughts, especially memories, aren't random, they are similar to thoughts that have occured before. Roughly speaking it appears that the brain likes doing things it has done before, and thus learning. One way this is accomplished is by strengthening connections between nerves that have fired together in the past and weakening ones that don't often fire together.
The second thing is that nerves do like to grow. Not so much that it makes the brain random or chaotic, but enough to allow new patterns to be formed and improve on existing ones for instance shortening the number of nuerons a common path goes through.
No one really understands how it all interacts, or how the features of nuerons relate to our preferences for certain outcomes over others e.g. what in the brains causes pleasures to be reinforced and painful experiences to be avoided. This is however a good first step at being able to study nueronal circuitry in a highly controlled way.
Besides if you really expect functional "squishy" computers than something has to provide the initial framework that genetics and evolution has arranged in the animal kingdom. Build some nueron groups in meaningful ways, provide some mechanism for learning in an inputoutput environment perhaps similar to how people try to train nueral computer networks, and then remove the restrictions on growth and connectedness and let the structures optimize and develop themselves.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0635AM 2217855
User 218435 Info
IAANS I am a neuroscientist.
I think the best immediate application for this kind of technology is not in constructign useful biological circuits, but in doing basic research on the properties of the nerve cells themselves. Traditionally, most of our knowledge about how nerve cells operate has come from studies of single cells in isolation, and in vitro recording. Neither of these techniques give very much information about the mechanisms which govern interaction between neurons, especially in the ways that their growth and behavior is influenced by neighboring cells. A technique which allows us to control the growth of a nerve culture would be a great tool for studying those interactions, becaue you would be able to more tightly control the interactions present as opposed to blindly jamming electrodes into brains and trying to infer circuits and connections from correlations in firing patterns, which is more or less the standard technique.
Koch in Biophysics of Computation showed that given what we know about neurons, they can theoretically implement equivalents of addition, multiplication, feedback, and many other computations, all within a single cell! The range of possibilities is enourmous, and requires a controlled environment to study the different tyeps of interactions. This could be a very important tool for research.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
oops Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0646AM 2217865
User 218435 Info
sin vitroin vivo above. That is, electrodes in living animals. There has been some work on trying to study networks in vitro as well i.e., in an artificial cell culture grown on an electrode array, but it's quite difficultgood electrodes are hard to make small enough, and even on the best electrode arrays you have to rely on luck to provide you with cells that wind up close enough to the electrodes to provide a good signal, and you wtill have very little idea about how the cells are connected. Another problem is the neurons will tend to move around a bit, so it's hard to track changes over time in such a culture. These problems could also be helped by this technique, by controlling the growth of interconnections and keeping the cells happy in one place.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
Nun attacked by pitbulls in schoolyard Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0414AM 2217714
By Susan Snyder and Monica Rhor , INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
A Roman Catholic nun from Incarnation School in Olney was attacked by two pit bulls while walking the convent's dog in the school yard yesterday.
When Sister Barbara Koehler saw the two pit bulls lunge for the Jack Russell terrier, her first move was to rescue the terrified dog.
faq
code
osdn
awards
privacy
journals
older stuff
rob's page
preferences
submit story
advertising
supporters
past polls
topics
about
bugs
jobs
hof
Sections
815
apache
824 1
askslashdot
810
books
826 1
bsd
823
developers
814
features
822
interviews
629
radio
825 3
science
824 1
yro
OSDN
freshmeat
Linux.com
SourceForge
ThinkGeek
NewsForge
SlashCode
Neuron Lithography Technique
Posted by michael on Sunday August 26, 0351AM
from the brain2.0 dept.
An Anonymous Coward writes "EE Times has an article about a new technique to build customdesigned networks from biological neurons using chip lithography and polymers to steer the growth of the neurons . Some of the first computers were described as "electronic brains" to the unwashed masses will researchers have to describe these as "biological computers"?"
CVS Infrastructure
iamklerck 445579
Preferences
Related Links
article
More on Technology
Also by michael
Science
Rumble in the Airwaves
Stem Cell Problems Slow Research
Brookhaven Physicists Produce "Doubly Strange Nuclei"
Scientific Elites vs. Illiterates
New LED Backlights For LCD Screens
Fine Structure Time Service
Utilities Included?
The Rise and Fall of Los Angeles
Optical Computers with Starfish Components?
Magnetic Fluid Art
Neuron Lithography Technique Preferences Top 105 comments Search Discussion
Threshold 1 105 comments 0 93 comments 1 26 comments 2 12 comments 3 3 comments 4 0 comments 5 0 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First Ignore Threads Newest First Ignore Threads Save
The Fine Print The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
i got th Score1
by insomniac on Sunday August 26, 0351AM 2217683
User 33758 Info
efirst o0st
insomniac
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0521AM 2217786
I woulda had first post but i was to busy burning this RTM copy of WinXP Pro...
Reply to This Parent
Rei got th Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0618AM 2217843
8====D my cock
o your poop chute
drip drip
Reply to This Parent
Good GOD... Score2
by Soko NOrsokoloski1SPhome.AMcom on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217688
User 17987 Info httpmembers.home.netrsokoloski1
People call me a Chiphead now. With this, I'm really fscked.
Soko
What the hell, it's only Karma.
Reply to This Parent
ReGood GOD... Score2
by ElJefe on Sunday August 26, 0510AM 2217769
User 41718 Info httpazureforest.caltech.edu
People call me a Chiphead now.
Maybe you should take the Pringles out of your ears. Just a suggestion...
Chris
Reply to This Parent
2nd? Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0356AM 2217689
Yup
Reply to This Parent
neurolithography is antiquated! Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0357AM 2217691
but let me suggest this is post is FAST. In fact its so god damn FAST it would make Keanu Reeves head spin !
Reply to This Parent
Second post Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0358AM 2217694
sp!
Reply to This Parent
hmmm Score1
by jupiter$spectre on Sunday August 26, 0400AM 2217698
User 444183 Info
and in the neverending quest for an artificially created brain, scientists are now making circuits out of brain cells! woohoo!
um, no.
Reply to This Parent
Hey... Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0401AM 2217699
Why don't you go fucking get a motherfucking life you god damned jew?
Reply to This Parent
the Jews are the problem Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0543AM 2217816
Jews really suck. Jews really suck.
I don't like Jews 206.244.69.51.
Reply to This Parent
Heh.. Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0406AM 2217702
ThinkGeek SUCKS! Fuck them!
Reply to This Parent
ReHeh.. Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0432AM 2217730
yup, thinkgeek is cheesy.
copyleft copyleft.net is way better.
But since it doens't have a giant but failing fast corporation like VA Linux behind it to waste cash on banner ads all over the place no one knows about it.
Reply to This Parent
Stop it! Stop whining! Score2, Funny
by Anonymous DWord on Sunday August 26, 0409AM 2217706
User 466154 Info
My CPU is a neural net processor a learning computer.
Reply to This Parent
ReStop it! Stop whining! Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0455AM 2217756
I'm a cop you idiot!
Reply to This Parent
shut up Score1, Troll
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0411AM 2217708
what a load of bunk. this is all falsifalities and untruthified bunk. i'd prove it, but it's not even worth it, because you are all too stupid to understand anyways. ignorant snotballs, you can install mandrake and you think you are god. the last thing i want to hear is your bitching, so get the hell out of here you worthless pile of mentally retarded spooge.
Reply to This Parent
Reshut up Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217712
What? That makes little or no sense. Trolls don't even have any substance anymore. What a sad day this is for Slashdot.org. Hey, where's the asciiart guy? That stuff is teh win
Reply to This Parent
ASCII art Score0
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0555AM 2217827
They deleted my "shovelbird" post...
Reply to This Parent
The strength of neurons Score3, Insightful
by Glowing Fish mnoelharrisonmapsursine.dyndns.org on Sunday August 26, 0413AM 2217713
User 155236 Info httpursine.dyndns.org~mnoelharris
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it, artificially causing neurons to grow rules out of one of their main strengths.
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
If you are directing neurons into what direction they are growing totally, then what you have is a really squishy computer circuit.
Hopefully I didn't put any around my words...
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by James Lanfear on Sunday August 26, 0506AM 2217763
User 34124 Info
While this is an interesting development, and I can't begin to guess what is the future possibilities of it
There have been two potential applications I've seen mentioned.
Biosensors. This doesn't have much to do with neurons per se, but with having access to very good chemical sensors that can be interfaced to other equipment. Neurons fit these requirements, at least for a limited range of chemicals.
HumanMachine interfaces, and specifically, interfaces for prosthetics. The problems with the neurochips that you point out could work in their favor in this area you could have relatively controlled, deterministic behavior, but in a form that is far easier to "plug in" to the nervous system than silicon. Naturally, they would also be excellent for interfacing instruments to nervous systems for research purposes.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score3, Informative
by dragonsflight on Sunday August 26, 0534AM 2217803
User 515217 Info httpbounce.toBobby
Neurons get to make their own decision on how to grow, taking into account factors such as present of growth inducing hormones, and how much a connection a neuron makes is used. But still, to a great extant, neurons get to make their own decisions about how much and in what direction they get to grow.
It's not that simple. Basic nueroscience of the poke and see what happens variety recognizes that the brain is composed of many massively interconnected functional groups. In everyone the centers for speech, math, motor skills, etc. are roughly located in the same places. Yes nature can compensate for damage in some cases, but retraining parts to do other work is slower and often less effective than the original
People and animals are genetically coded to design brains in certain ways. Merely having lots of nuerons doesn't guarantee intelligence or functionality. A lot of it has to do with where inputs come in and where the outputs go out and how the groups are connected along the way. Also there are different types of nuerons with different nuerotransmitters and degrees of interconnectedness.
That said, yes the nuerons to some degree govern themselves. An architechture is built up and then nuerons respond in complicated and individual ways to some, as yet poorly understood, system for learning and development. If the brain really is all there is to intelligence than memory and learning have to be a product of something the nuerons are doing. Unless there is some uber mechanism directing all the nuerons, then learning has to be a natural result of what nuerons. Crudely put this might be divided into two categories as we understand it today
Nuerons like to fire in the same patterns they've seen before.
Nuerons like to make new connections.
Thoughts, especially memories, aren't random, they are similar to thoughts that have occured before. Roughly speaking it appears that the brain likes doing things it has done before, and thus learning. One way this is accomplished is by strengthening connections between nerves that have fired together in the past and weakening ones that don't often fire together.
The second thing is that nerves do like to grow. Not so much that it makes the brain random or chaotic, but enough to allow new patterns to be formed and improve on existing ones for instance shortening the number of nuerons a common path goes through.
No one really understands how it all interacts, or how the features of nuerons relate to our preferences for certain outcomes over others e.g. what in the brains causes pleasures to be reinforced and painful experiences to be avoided. This is however a good first step at being able to study nueronal circuitry in a highly controlled way.
Besides if you really expect functional "squishy" computers than something has to provide the initial framework that genetics and evolution has arranged in the animal kingdom. Build some nueron groups in meaningful ways, provide some mechanism for learning in an inputoutput environment perhaps similar to how people try to train nueral computer networks, and then remove the restrictions on growth and connectedness and let the structures optimize and develop themselves.
Reply to This Parent
ReThe strength of neurons Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0635AM 2217855
User 218435 Info
IAANS I am a neuroscientist.
I think the best immediate application for this kind of technology is not in constructign useful biological circuits, but in doing basic research on the properties of the nerve cells themselves. Traditionally, most of our knowledge about how nerve cells operate has come from studies of single cells in isolation, and in vitro recording. Neither of these techniques give very much information about the mechanisms which govern interaction between neurons, especially in the ways that their growth and behavior is influenced by neighboring cells. A technique which allows us to control the growth of a nerve culture would be a great tool for studying those interactions, becaue you would be able to more tightly control the interactions present as opposed to blindly jamming electrodes into brains and trying to infer circuits and connections from correlations in firing patterns, which is more or less the standard technique.
Koch in Biophysics of Computation showed that given what we know about neurons, they can theoretically implement equivalents of addition, multiplication, feedback, and many other computations, all within a single cell! The range of possibilities is enourmous, and requires a controlled environment to study the different tyeps of interactions. This could be a very important tool for research.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
oops Score2
by plastik55 INOSPAMread.repliesto.myREMOVEposts.edu on Sunday August 26, 0646AM 2217865
User 218435 Info
sin vitroin vivo above. That is, electrodes in living animals. There has been some work on trying to study networks in vitro as well i.e., in an artificial cell culture grown on an electrode array, but it's quite difficultgood electrodes are hard to make small enough, and even on the best electrode arrays you have to rely on luck to provide you with cells that wind up close enough to the electrodes to provide a good signal, and you wtill have very little idea about how the cells are connected. Another problem is the neurons will tend to move around a bit, so it's hard to track changes over time in such a culture. These problems could also be helped by this technique, by controlling the growth of interconnections and keeping the cells happy in one place.
Haha! Easy
Reply to This Parent
Nun attacked by pitbulls in schoolyard Score1, Offtopic
by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 0414AM 2217714
By Susan Snyder and Monica Rhor , INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
A Roman Catholic nun from Incarnation School in Olney was attacked by two pit bulls while walking the convent's dog in the school yard yesterday.
When Sister Barbara Koehler saw the two pit bulls lunge for the Jack Russell terrier, her first move was to rescue the terrified dog.
look at that post, this fucker pasted his own user id and account number into his crapflood. Mod his ass to oblivion on future posts.
tell ya'll something ya'll is the dumbest people in
the world what if ya'll mamma die or someone in ya'll
family die nobody who say that to ya'll and
aaliyascorpse u need to get another name. THAT GOES TO
SHOW YOU THAT HALF OF THE WHITE PEOPLE IS THE MOTHA
FUCKERS IN THIS WORLD IS DUMB!!! ASSHOLE A
YOUNG LADY HAS JUST DIE AND LEFT HER HUSBAND, HER
KIDS, HER FAMILY BEHIND
!!!!!!!AND
0-00-000-0000-00000 U R THE DUMBEST CRACKER ON THE
FACE OF THIS WORLD. I HOPE U DIE IN HELL WHERE U
BELONG IN HELL BITCH! NOW IF THAT
BITCH BRITTANY SPEARS DIE YA'LL ASS WOULD BE CRYING
YA'LL HEART'S OUT.. YA'LL IS A BUNCH OF MUTHA FUCKING
CRACKERS!!!!!AND IF YA'LL GOT SOMETHING WRITE
MY ASS SO I CAN CUSS YA'LL UGLY ASS OUT AGAIN TO YA'LL
BITCH'S KISS MY ASS LILMAMMA20032001@YAHOO.COM WRITE
MY ASS IF YA'LL GOT THE BALLS BITCH
LADY THAT HAD A DREAM THAT DIE BITCH'S. YA'LL IS JUST
ASS HOLE AND IF YA'LL CALL HER ANOTHER NIGGA I'LL FIND
YA'LL MY DAMN SELF AND KILL YOU MUTHAFUCKERS PEACE OUT
BITCHESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Important Stuff:
Please try to keep posts on topic.
Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating
what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be
moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your
threshold on the User Preferences Page)