Trident Micro Update

grendelkhan writes: "According to Linux Today, Trident is denying that they are no longer supporting open source developers for XFree86." This message from Eich clarifies the events leading up to this. Looks like Trident chips will continue to be supported, one way or another.

Comments

Oh I Feel Like an Ass

[Cylix]

Well I went through the process of sending their customer relations department a nice letter.

I calmly informed them if quality drivers for their products ceased to emerge in the marketplace that I would seek other alternatives.

At the time I felt like an informed reader and now I feel like an ass.

Re:Oh I Feel Like an Ass

[max cohen]

I think this is a good lesson for everyone, reminding us of the importance of checking the facts or delving further into the issue when a story is posted on Slashdot before sounding off on it. However, don't feel too bad about what you said. The official reply from Trident didn't address the XF86 developer's request to sign an NDA without the "source code exception clause." Until that is addressed, I don't think the issue has been fully resolved.

Re:Oh I Feel Like an Ass

[rknop]

Don't feel like an ass. If you politely and calmly worded it, it still applies.

Trident may come out and say that they aren't refusing support to open-source software. But that's marketspeak if it is impossible for Open Source developers to get access to programming information without signing an NDA that prohibits source distribution. "We support open source software, but we won't give programming information to people who distribute source" is inherently contradictory.

Believe their actions, not their words. So far, their actions are not favorable, if the reports of the XFree86 developer not being able to get information are correct. We'll see if they turn around. Your letter was almost certainly still appropriate.

-Rob

Re:Oh I Feel Like an Ass

[Restil]

Which is the entire purpose behind writing a NICE letter instead of a nasty flaming one. At least when you write a well supported polite, yet negative letter and your source of information turns out to not be completely accurate, you're able to say "oops, sorry my bad" and back off gracefully instead of REALLY looking like an idiot.

Its in Trident's best interests to have linux based drivers available, even if they don't want to support them in any way. They have a product to protect and I can understand why they don't want to post the specs publicly, but they realize that in time, given enough effort, someone will eventually reverse engineer their products. The point is, by the time that happens, those products will be obsolete and newer versions will be available. As long as the specs are available under an NDA, the drivers can still be released and the driver source, while maybe revealing more information than a binary driver would, still keeps hidden much of the internal workings of the device, until such time its no longer that important.

However, if Trident decided to completely turn their back on open source developers and suddenly a related OS were to gain a significant hold on the market, they'd be forced to play catch-up, but as long as they have drivers available, even unsupported by the company, they're on an even playing field, with no harm done.

-Restil

It doesn't appear to be over just yet

[fobbman]

From Egbert's linked email:

"Alan Hourihane has tried to obtain documentation for the latest Trident chipsest (CyberBladeXP and CyberBladeXPm) without success. He offered to sign an NDA with 'source code exception clause' a clause which allowed distribution of unobfuscated source developed with the help of documentation otherwise covered by the NDA.

Trident appearantly didn't accept a 'source code exception clause'."

Just being the casual observer that I am, I would question if it is in fact settled. Trident has yet to provide the documentation requested by the XFree86 group in the manner in which it has been received prior to this chipset. All Trident has provided is some PR spin about their "policy" not changing. This is often times done by companies to try and do some damage control.

Until they provide the documentation needed they still need to be pressured.

Re:Open Source with NDA- yes, it's possible...

[Svartalf]

...just twisted.

You can release the source- and in many situations, you can fix it, so long as the bugs aren't with the interactions with the device. In that case, you need to enter into an NDA with the company to get the data. So long as they're willing to allow people to be involved as they show interest, then there's little problem- otherwise you end up with the joke that NVidia pulled with the Utah-GLX driver support.

It's doable, just nowhere near as useful as releasing everything to let anybody work on it.

Getting someone else to ask

[hrieke]

I've said this in the last posting of the story, but it was at the bottom so I don't know how many people saw it:
We should have IBM, Micron, or who ever else uses these chips in their laptops to ask Trident to release the documentation that is needed to develop a driver for FreeX.
It's harder to ignore IBM than it is a single developer.

Not really clear...

[chill]

If I read all of the above correctly...

Trident's policy has been, and still is, to require an NDA. That NDA prohibits source code distribution of a driver based off information obtained under NDA. Apparantly, from the successful development of drivers for past Trident chipsets, this part wasn't enforced.

Now, Trident seems to be enforcing that part -- by not providing information to XFree86 developers on the CyberBladeXP and CyberBladeXPm chipsets. The XFree86 developers wanted to amend the NDA to allow source distribution.

Since there has been no change in the NDA, only in enforcement, Trident is claiming that they provide the same support as before. Technically, they do -- sign the NDA and provide binary-only drivers and they'll provide docs.

So, if you support the idea of source code availability for video drivers, keep an eye on the graphics chipset used in your next potential laptop. If it is Trident, look elsewhere.