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X-Rays Of A TiBook's Interior

A reader writes: "A fine application of expensive medical equipment: producing neat desktop pictures by taking an x-ray of the guts of a PowerBook G4. Guy Mullins has the details." The actual photos are on a separate site.

16 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. XRay.... by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't xrays wipe drives? I think I can see the hard drive in the xray - in the middle at the bottom - the CD drive is on the left, and the batteries are on the right I reckon.

    Anyone know what effects XRays have on magnetic media? I always used to post floppies with a 'magnetic media, do not xray' sticker on em?

    Fantastic images tho.

    1. Re:XRay.... by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

      >Don't xrays wipe drives?

      Nope, but they can ruin your photo film.

      Of course, if your hard drives were subjected to a really *powerful* x-ray source, they'd melt. ;-)

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:XRay.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The luggage ones are entirely enclosed in a large metal box. The entrance and exit have those plastic coverings which probably are lead filled. The medical ones do not have nearly the same type of protection so stray x-rays will radiate the nurse if they're not behind the shield.

    3. Re:XRay.... by clifyt · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually its an urban legend that air port xrays will do this. Its the conveyor belts that these things run on that does the demagnitization. Nothing to do with the xray.

      These things use electric motors to pull them, which create electromagnets (errr...the electromagnets create the motor). Even so, you'd have to have media almost directly on the belt over top the motor for a while before it came close to damaging anything. A laptop is going to be more isolated because of the casing (yeah yeah, I know most of them are plastic anymore). And still, its been several years since airports had any of these where the strength was strong enough to damage anything.

      For the most part, they let folks go with these because of this urban legend to keep the lines moving. Until I got the real scoop on these things, I'd have my powerbook waiting ready to go so I could show them its running and they let me go. Fuck, what if I had molded symtex (or however you spell it) into the second battery port. I'm paranoid as it is...I WANT these guys to stop everyone and run the sucker through the xrays - though in their defense, the xrays also do bomb material sniffing and occasionally they will not only ask to see your machine running, but they will ask for a wipe - they take an alcohol wipe and run a gas chromatography on it right there in seconds. Good job security dudes!

    4. Re:XRay.... by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which tends to make me think the medical ones are a wee bit more powerful.

      It's not the power, per se, it's that a medical imager is capable of dispersing X-rays over a much wider range of area, some of which are going to irradiate the operator.

      The X-ray machines in an airport are shielded (ever notice the heavy looking rubber skirts that your bags go through on either end?), and the x-rays are directed at a very narrow section of the conveyor belt.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    5. Re:XRay.... by mosch · · Score: 4, Informative
      This article is a nationwide study on the x-ray dose levels that patients are exposed to during various medical procedures. You'll see that it confirms the numbers I stated above.

      Further inspection reveals that airports actually use two different strength scanners. Checked luggage goes through a high-intensity scanner, such as an Invision Technologies CTX baggage scanner. This scanner starts with a low power beam, but can send a focused beam (1cm containing 100-300 milliRoentgens) on suspicious areas if closer analysis is required. The focused beam is actually a Computed Tomography scan, of the type that takes 5000milliRoentgens to do to one's head, so it's still less powerful than the medical version.

      According to FAA Regulation 108.17

      If the X-ray system exposes any carry-on or checked articles to more than 1 milliroentgen during the inspection, the certificate holder shall post a sign which advises passengers to remove film of all kinds from their articles before inspection.
      But you'll note that airports all tell you it's safe to let your film and camera go through the carry-on luggage x-ray. That's because they expose your luggage to less than 1 milliRoentgen. If they can't see what they need, they still have Explosive and Narcotic Detection Systems, and manual searches available.

      So you see, I wasn't throwing numbers around. I was making factual statements, you useless troll.

  2. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've had a couple of assembled battery packs apart because off the shelf was not available and each time it was an assembly of standard batteries soldered together.

    OTOH I'm sure there are some custom batteries out there.

  3. Re:Interesting... by Bryan+Andersen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Generally yes, though some are using prizmatic cell shapes but they are more costly than the good ol' cylindrical cell. If you go with a non standard cell size or shape it costs more per unit due to lack of volume. The standard cell sizes are also available from many different manufacturers. That means you have second and third sources available in case your manufacturer of choice fails to meet your demand for some reason.

  4. Mirror by Night0wl · · Score: 4, Informative

    TiGutz in Blue
    TiGutz plain

    The 3m and 9m files will half to wait for later ;p
    Sexy stuff.

    --
    Computational Madness in a round package.
  5. Re:Interesting... by beable · · Score: 2, Informative
    Out of curiosity, are laptop batteries always made up of a large number of linked, smaller, cylindrical batteries?
    All batteries are made up of a number of cells. What people commonly call a "battery" (like an AA, a C, a D, or an AAA), is actually a cell. If you look at your car battery, you might be able to see that it is made up of six cells. Each one has its own compartment, and its own plug on top for adding more water if it gets low.

    The reason for this is that a cell puts out about 2 volts. To get a higher voltage, you have to connect several cells in series to make a battery. For a car, you need six cells to make twelve volts. For a telephone exchange, you need 24 cells to make about 50 volts. You can also connect several batteries together in parallel to get more current or more power.
    --
    ...
  6. Re:X-Rays and computers? by CMiYC · · Score: 3, Informative

    No. X-Rays are just light. If it caused a problem, you wouldn't be able to take your computer on a plane. Nothing in a computer is affected by x-rays.

  7. And that is a good thing too. by dmaxwell · · Score: 3, Informative

    I once had to obtain a new battery for P75 laptop and that battery could not be had from anywhere. However, the cells were in Batteries Plus' catalog and they were able to rebuild the battery for me.

    I used to work as a technician for a firm that rented environmental instrumentation and we recelled batteries all of the time. It is a common practice for more than just laptops.

  8. Re:Interesting... by Crazy+Diamond · · Score: 3, Informative

    And of course a 9V battery is also just 6 cells underneath the outer covering. Your car battery is 6 cells but it is a lead-acid battery which produces ~2V per cell whereas normal batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) use a dry cell which produces ~1.5V. NiCad cells are ~1.2V.

  9. Details from TiXray.orig by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Informative

    The TiXray.orig file is in DICOM format, and I imported it into GraphicConverter. If anyone's interested, this is what GraphicConverter put in the comments:

    Image Type: ORIGINAL\PRIMARYStudy Date: 20010424Acquisition Date: 20010424Image Date: 20010424Study Time: 154340Acquisition Time: 154532Image Time: 154531Accession Number: TiModality: CRManufacturer: Lumisys Institution Name: Institution Address: Referring Physician's Name: Referring Physician's Telephone Numbers: Station Name: OPACS_SENDERStudy Description: Name of Physician(s) Reading Study: Operator's Name: Administrator Admitting Diagnoses Description: Manufacturer's Model Name: Lumisys LS135 Patient's Name: PowerBook^TitaniumPatient ID: Apple Patient's Birth Date: 20010101Patient's Sex: O Other Patient IDs: Ethnic Group: Additional Patient History: Body Part Examined: Device Serial Number: clt35403.datCassette Orientation: PORTRAITCassette Size: 35CMX43CM Relative X-ray Exposure: 1713View Position: Study ID: c0a865080gq5m8Series Number: 1 Image Number: 1 Photometric Interpretation: MONOCHROME2 Pixel Spacing: 0.172\0.172 Study Priority ID: MED Requesting Physician:

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  10. Re:Proof that slashdot is deleting comments by jamie · · Score: 2, Informative
    This comment was not deleted. When we converted from Slash 1.0 to 2.2, we had to run an import script to go over all our old .shtml files and pull their comments into our database. It must have missed this one. Probably, it missed more than one.

    Figuring out why, and going back to figure out what other comments we might have missed, is one of our priorities for this coming week.

    To the trolls who started this meme, if you are interested in getting these problems fixed rather than just raising a fuss, the next time you find something like this, please submit a SourceForge bug. Thanks. Meanwhile, extended discussion of Slashdot's bugs on a story that's not about testing the Slash code is offtopic and should be moderated as such.

  11. Re:X-Rays and computers? by sinster · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I was in college, the probability was closer to 1 in every 1000 scans. These days, the airport xray machines are much stronger than back then. I can't cite a new probability, because I don't know the new radiation strength, but it must be lower than 1 in 1000.

    The critical question is, "Will you notice the damage?" We're talking about a one bit error, here.

    Take your average PC. You've got pretty much three firmware chips in there: one for the system BIOS, one for the hard drive firmware, and one for the video controller. No matter which firmware suffers the error, there's first a question of whether or not the error is in a memory cell that ever gets accessed, and second whether or not the error changes the value in a way that makes a difference. If we're talking about one of those lame bootup graphics that a lot of manufacturers like these days, you'll probably never notice a one bit error. And if we're talking about code that drives a piece of hardware that you don't have installed (or dont use) you won't notice that error either. But if you get an error in your POST code, you're dead. System BIOSes these days are pretty fluffy. Lots of extraneous stuff in there. Video firmware is also pretty fluffy, but not nearly as bad as system BIOS. And drive firmware is quite tight. Almost any error you get in there will be in some code that gets executed.

    But on the other hand, the Intel opcode set is full of lots of unused bits. There are a whole lot of examples where flipping a bit from 0 to 1 doesn't change the opcode or operands. And recall that we're talking about errors that can only change a 0 to a 1; there is no way that xray damage could change a 1 to a 0. If the bit that gets damaged is already a 1 (~50% chance of that) then your dead memory cell is still functioning exactly the way you want... until it comes time to do a firmware upgrade.

    So that brings us to the last two issues: given that damage occurs, and given that its noticeable, then how long will it take for you to notice it, and will you ascribe the damage correctly to the airport xray machine? Many users are perfectly happy to ascribe crashes and corruptions to Windows. And while Windows certainly accounts for more than its fair share of errors, on a machine that crashes once every 40 hours, are you going to notice and correctly assign a failure that makes it crash every 39h30m?

    Lastly, we're not talking about a bit suddenly changing from 0 to 1. Normally a buried gate transistor will hold its charge for around 150 years (each transistor will be different). No insulator is perfect. You zap it with a single photon, and maybe you've chopped a year off that. Of course, a xray machine isn't going to output a single photon. It's going to bathe your machine in a tremendous number of photons. So maybe one airport xray machine will drop you from 150 years to 130 years (I'm pulling that 20 year figure out of my butt, pretty much, but it's within an order of magnitude of being right). Do it again, and we're down to 110 years (it'll always reduce the life by the same number: a single xray photon opens a single ionizied path in the silicon dioxide, and that single ionized path will saturate at a small fixed current). So after 8 hits in the airport xray machine, you've probably got a number of one bit errors. And then the discussion above about whether or not you'll notice the error and whether or not you ascribe it correctly comes into play.

    PS: these days, most microcontrollers, PICs, CPUs, MMUs, and other assorted large chips also have EEPROM cells on board. But in any particular computer, the technology used to design the EEPROM cells in functional chips is usually 5 to 7 years ahead of the technology used to create EEPROM cells in memory chips. That means that if your CPU is using a .2um technology (that tells us that the transistor channel will be .2um x .4um in EEPROM memory cells), then your bulk EEPROM is probably using a .5um or 1um process. That means that not only does your bulk memory have far more EEPROM transistors, but that each one is 6.25 to 16 times as large. For this reason, we can ignore the probability of getting a one bit error in your CPU when discussing the likely places for errors to occur. But a rigorous discussion would require that we pay attention to all EEPROM cells in a computer.

    --
    -- Nolite audere delere orbiculum rigidum meum.