Looking At Pretty Graphics Of Dot Com Demographics

chris_robison writes "A talented guy wrote a great example of the quality of talent that is going to waste in these economic "hard times". An unemployed friend of mine put together a kickass tool which lets you query a database of craigslist statistics and generate graphs comparing various things such as job postings and apartments for rent. Although the stats are geared toward San Francisco and the Bay Area, it does make for some interesting reading, even if you aren't from around there. Here's his explaination of what he did (included below)" "hey kids.

I'm unemployed and bored.

With all the talk about dotcom booms and people moving away and all these really general statements people are making; i was curious as to what's really going on now, what went on four years ago and what effect did the boom really have on this community.

So.. i wrote a script that went through the craigslist archive on egroups and tallied the number of postings each day for each category then i stuffed it in a database and made a grapher tool.

It's kinda neat cos you can basically see some somwhat hard data on what the san francisco bay area has been doing over the past four years. you can graph job postings from various industries against things like apartments for rent or housing wanted postings, also for sale postings and resumes.

Some of the interesting things I found is that the number of housing wanted postings seems to be slightly down recently but pretty much unaffected by the drop in jobs. perhaps people are always in a state of wanting to move to a city.

One thing to bear in mind, this data isn't one hundred percent accurate for a few reasons... people do repost their information multiple times in a given month, sometimes people post a number of avaliable apartments in a single posting and craigslist has become significantly more popular over the years in question. however, I do still think that it makes for a decent general indicator of trends in our community. (I'm considering doing some kind of normalizing based on the total volume of posts- I need to think about it some more)

(Unfortunately, personal listings aren't archived. I guess that's a good thing... but I guess it also would have been cool to graph activity on the personals categories against some of the categories that reflect the general state of the economy. (maybe when people aren't tied up in career they start to think about more important things, or maybe not...) )

Either way, the data is there, you can look at it for different time periods and categories. draw your own conclusions and have fun!

The url is here:

http://www.signal11.com/charts/chart-o-m atic.cgi

take it easy..

--adam "

Comments

jobs - housing.

[garcia]

just b/c you lost your job does not mean that you are quite ready to pick up and leave immediately. Most people are going to try and find a job in the general vicinity *first*, then if they cannot find anything a relocation would be necessary. I would assume that is why there is little change in that department.

Re:Not all dot-commers are capable.

[garcia]

most of the people were caught up in a seemingly endless supply of capital.. There was so much out there and it just seemed like there were too few people to fill all the spots.

It was almost as if people found the pot of gold a the end of the rainbow.. Problem was that the sun disappeared behind the clouds and only the miserable rain was left. :(

I do feel bad for those that were employed. Just b/c they didn't have the skills necessary does NOT mean that they were the ones at fault. It was those that were sinking in millions to get a company off the ground knowing that it was near worthless.

on the IT job or worker shortage

[diamond0]

This month's issue of Communications of the ACM features a reader forum titled "How to Address the Global IT Worker Shortage."

Ralph Castain of Fort Collins, Colorado wrote the following, which began on the same page (12) as Google's ad, "Google Seeks Expert Computer Scientists"

As someone who has been involved in industry and academia over the last few years, I find the current IT "shortage" to be somewhat self-inflicted due to several factors:

• Super-specialized requirements. Many companies express no interest in investing in employee training. Hence, we are treated to job listings requiring a combination of skills unlikely to be held by anyone outside that specific company. For example, a recent local job ad required candidates to have at least five years of experience with a highly specialized, industry-specific software package; three years of experience with a specific software-development package; and one to three years experience in that particular industry. When contacted, the human resource manager blamed the IT shortage for her difficulty filling the position.
• Low salaries/limited experience. A scan of recent job ads at one popular Web site showed an average salary range (where quoted) well below industry standards in the U.S. In addition, experienced programmers (for example, those with more than five years) report being rarely contacted for interviews, even when meeting all other knowledge requirements. This raises the question of whether there really is a shortage within the industry, or a shortage only of entry-level personnel willing to work for below-standard wages.
• Inflated job listings. Companies have become notorious for the placement of job listings on popular Web sites they have no real intention of filling. For example, a large multinational company recently placed more than 100 IT job openings on a Web site over the course of a two-week period. At the same time, the company announced massive layoffs, salary reductions, and forced vacations due to declining sales. How likely is it that any of these listings will ever be filled? Yet the IT shortage studies include such listings in their statistics, thereby distorting the overall picture.

As opposed to a shortage of IT professionals in the U.S., the recent experience of a local headhunter is much closer to the norm. After placing a job listing on a Web site for a SQL server DBA, the headhunter was deluged with more than 300 resumes and 100 phone calls within a 24-hour period. A similar experience followed another listing for a C++ programmer.

The fact is many of us in the corporate world outsource our IT needs to foreign companies and professionals simply because this practice is cheaper. Programmers from foreign countries are willing to work for much lower wages than their U.S. counterparts, especially if they stay overseas. The inefficiencies caused by such remote operations are more than covered by the savings in compensation.

IT shortage? Rather than trusting questionable statistics, I'd recommend asking the people in the job market and the head-hunters.

Ralph Castain, Fort Collins, Colorado

Their talent was wasted during the *boom*

[Anonymous Coward]

You have it backwards. It was during the boom when people were wasting their talent, creating useless software and websites, justified by insane business plans. These hard times are a correction. Their unemployment is a sign to people laid off from the boom that they have wasted their previous years, and they need to find something next that truly will be useful.

Re:Maybe it's just jealosy

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone can be talented at their job, their is no doubt about that. And I'd agree that dot-commers were probably paid more than people in other industries of the same talent level.

But, as much as it's PC to say that the lowliest of the low is (Surprise!) smarter than everyone who thinks they're smart because of their college education, I'd have to differ. Surely, there are some very talented agricultural engineers and biologists who create GE crops. But I don't take it this is what you mean by "farmer". If you think the average construction worker, or welfare recipient, or farmer, has deep reserves of intelligence that they are just not willing to show to people on their high horses, you should try hanging out with some of these people.

I've met many such people in my life. One thing is clear. Most of them would've taken dot-com jobs if they could have. But they lacked the skill set, and they lacked the drive to obtain the skill set.

The reason why people thought the dot-commers were so smart is because, as much as it seems counterintuitive today, many of them were in fact smart. They were not smart because of what they did. Once you learn http protocols and the principles of servers and templates, etc, it's not that difficult. They were smart because they picked up these things faster than anyone else.

To be the first to move on to the moderately complex world of internet programming, that is why they stood out. It is the same reason that we John Carmack, who always pushes the envelope, and that we don't worship John Romero, who spent three years trying to play catch-up and finally releasing a shitty game.

I'll also admit that many of these people were egomaniacs. But many of them were not. You can't lump all of these people together.

Dot-commerce gave us much great technology, this is good. The internet is not going away, but the adoption rate of this technology fell sorely behind the amount of technology that was being produced. It will be a shame that the technology created by many of these companies will simply be re-done in the future when sufficient demand actually exists for it.

Another good thing is that most of the people left aren't money chasers. What sickened me the most about the dot-commers was the fact that many of them were only there to get rich. Most of these people have since been disenfranchized, their high and mighty (and lucrative!) position is now no longer what it used to be.

So now we are left with people who do this because it is what they love to do. That is why I program, and why I continue to take an interest in internet technology.

Armchair engineers have moved out.

[heroine]

There's definitely a difference in the quality of the emails I get from software engineers these days. They're much more technically adept.

Seems as if most of the computer scientists working for .coms neither had the interest nor the ability to solve real computer science problems and have now switched to non-technical, and for them, more interesting careers. Wired ran a story about how many armchair engineers from the 90's went back to school and followed their true passion to become actors, artists, and writers.

You might say the quality of software being written today is slightly up compared to the 90's because the only people programming are the ones who really want to do it.