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A Critique of the EFF's Open Audio License

Brett Glass writes: "This weekend, the EFF is staging a public concert in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park to promote its "Open Audio License" (OAL), a music license based loosely on the GPL. But is a license intended for software a good starting point for a license for music? And is the EFF's license a good choice for composers and performers? This critique discusses the intended and unintended effects of the EFF's license, and suggests alternatives that might be more beneficial (and more palatable) to musicians, composers, and performers." Some of Glass' critiques seem a little silly - they're intended goals of the license, not flaws.

In fact, let me make a brief response to Glass' points as he makes them in the critique -

OAL gives away too much: No response to this. It's for the artist to decide.

No credit to performer: Silly criticism. An intended aim of the license. The performer is free to seek an alternate license from the author if he/she wants to profit off of the song.

Potential damage to reputation: Silly criticism. An intended aim of the license. Like the GPL, this license assumes that free and open should be free and open to everyone for every purpose, even those you find distasteful. "Oh my god, someone is using my GPL'ed program called grep to search for abortion providers in the phone book!"

Viral nature: Silly criticism. An intended aim of the license. Again, if you want to incorporate chunks of someone else's work in your own, you are free to a) be infected by the OAL, or b) seek a different license from the author. Free with restrictions, or, presumably, pay the author for a different deal. Without this license, only b) is available. The OAL only ever provides a possible alternative for people wanting to use a work.

ASCAP and BMI don't enforce the OAL: This is an issue to take up with ASCAP or BMI.

Irrevocable: Silly criticism. Even without this clause, you couldn't "take back" the license, at least for people who've already made use of your work - they took advantage of the license at the time.

Most of the rest of Glass' criticisms are general criticisms of any Free license - it gives away the rights of the author. Well, duh, that's what it's supposed to do. These are criticisms of the aim of the license rather than flaws in the license. What Glass is lacking here is a general BSD-type license for music to compare this against...

25 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Music lies between text and code. by westfirst · · Score: 5, Insightful


    The guy who wrote Free for All had a long explanation about why the book wasn't free. He points out that text and opinions are best copyrighted because copyright doesn't affect the facts themselves. If you want to reuse the facts, you're free to do so. You just can't reuse the exact form.

    But music is kind of different. Songs do grow as other people add stanzas, verses and what not. So I can see the advantages of the OAL. This guy is complaining too much. Sure, you give up some rights when you use it, but you gain others. What's the big deal? Everything in life has tradeoffs.

  2. It's not a "critique" if it comes from Brett by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Brett just doesn't like any form of free media or software that can't be "taken private". He's also very strongly opposed to the idea of free media, software, etc., if it takes the profit from commercial practicioners who would produce the same thing for a high price.

    Brett would prefer if we'd all put out free media that he can take private, commercialize, and not return anything to the creator. I just don't see what's in it for anyone but Brett. Most people don't take him seriously.

    Bruce

    1. Re:It's not a "critique" if it comes from Brett by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you insist.

      And yet here you are, posting for the first time in over half a month (save for replying to two posts which refer to you by name in their subject lines).

      Yes. I find that these days I can be published in better venues. They get me more views, and a broader spread of readers than slashdot, while on Slashdot I'm generally preaching to the converted. That's fine, but I'm after new converts and can reach them better elsewhere. And I'd still be replying to posts with my name in them, except that the search function on the new slashdot software no longer will return hits sorted by time, and I can't find them any longer.

      Feel free to tell me otherwise, but I'd say it looks an awful lot like you do take him seriously, enough to try to marginalize him as a selfish kook.

      I posted because there are a lot of newbies on Slashdot who might not know Brett and his history. It's not out of order for the more experienced readers to help them out.

      Think nobody was taking him seriously when he was cleaning your clock in the Silicon Valley roundtable?

      A number of the other panelists did not feel he belonged there, and although the SV folks admitted they screwed up by inviting him, and were quite chagrined about it, their own policies did not let them uninvite him. I probably spent too much time replying to him.

      You seem to be distorting his views

      Try to prove that I am distorting his views. For every assertion you make, I guarantee that I can show you in his online writing that he says exactly what I represent he says.

      and by extension, people who dislike the GPL license by acting like they want to take everything private, commercialize it, and not return anything.

      Yes, I think that taking public software private is a selfish act.

      Actually, it's about freedom

      Wrong. The BSD license is not about freedom. It's about one party giving a gift, and the other party taking it. Some BSD folks have forgotten that their software is based on the work of the U.S. Army through its DARPA grants to U.C. Berkeley. The taxpayers paid for the software, and was given to everyone as a gift. Most GPL software these days originates in private enterprise, and is written to solve an immediate business problem, other GPL software originates as a hobby or academic work. And a little of it is supported by government grants, for example Donald Becker's work on ethernet drivers was funded by NASA. But much less than with BSD.

      the GPL tells me, "Better get a second job, because no matter how much time and money you spend improving this code, as soon as you release it, people are going to download the code for free rather than pay you a nickel."

      If you just write software and do no other business, that may indeed be the case. People who profitably develop GPL software use it to facilitate some other business of their own. For example, a lot of the kernel development is paid for by hardware manufacturers who market Linux systems. Even Linus works for one.

      The corpses of the Linux companies

      Look around you. Linux use is growing 33% per year in the worst economic downturn in recent memory, and more people are doing business with Linux today than ever before. The fact that some companies went out is mostly because they could not compete, especially with the big companies coming into Linux. Most companies go out of business, you know, no matter what the industry. By the way, Progeny is putting money in the bank every month. We had to cut it to the bone to achieve that, but it's turning real profit when others only have a pro-forma profit. My investors in Linux Capital Group may well profit on their investment, the jury is still out.

      the all-time low stock prices of the remaining ones

      Well, a lot of the investors thought some of these companies had a "lock" on Linux. We don't want them to have a lock, and the investors have realized that. Not that the rest of the market is doing much better.

      the decision by the owners of this very web site to start selling proprietary software

      Hey, if I were VA I would have sold the company already. Their business plan denied that larger companies would get into Linux. If they want to produce a mix of propreitary and Open Source software now, there's nothing wrong with that. You're confusing me with RMS - I want Free Software and proprietary to co-exist, he wants it all to be free. But we both use the GPL.

      the fact that GPL software is always left chasing the taillights of others in the industry

      Oh yes, that's why Microsoft is copying the Tux web server features into IIS, and is still chasing the taillights of Linux in attempting to make its own systems reliable. XP turns out not to be nearly so stable as they said - its kernel crashes a lot.

      A programmer asked how someone like him would make a living (i.e., not have to take on a second job) in a GPL world, and Bruce told him that he should start thinking about getting into the support or documentation business.

      Sure, sell support or extra documentation for his own software. What's wrong with that? Did you think he wasn't going to support his own software? Or did you expect him to do that for free? He doesn't have to.

      I still think he's Brett.

      Bruce

  3. Music is not Code by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder how they even begin to get away with comparing this to GPL.
    Music is so simple to reverse engineer that it is fundamentally open source. You listen, write down the lyrics, and pick out some chords. You can't really totally copy someone else, but you can get away with stealing a lot. Everybody does. So much for some sort of viral license.
    OAL is all about musicians living in the "free as in beer" world ushered in by Napster. But it is also stupid. It's all about giving away rights without getting anything at all in return. With computer code, at least there are a some people out there who might modify your code and make it better. There is nothing similar in the music world.
    The music industry is going to continue on pretty much as it has in the past. It'll sue where it thinks it can, but it's never going back to the pre-napster days. And it's not about to shift paradigms either. The only way things are going to change will be some revolutionary security technology (unlikely) or a complete revision of copyright law into some entirely new beast (who knows?).

  4. Re:Who is Brett Glass? by reverius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    An advocate of the BSD license? Reading his critique definitely could have persuaded me otherwise.

    One of his primary arguments is that the artists (musicians) are giving something away (music) without any hope of compensation (money).

    Isn't this kind of like the BSD license, which forces the artists (programmers) to give something away (source code) without any hope of compensation (contribution back to the community)?

    I thought the primary difference between the GPL and the BSD license (besides all the holy-war crap) was that the GPL requires you to GPL anything built off of it, whereas the BSD license allows your stuff to be built-upon without contribution back to the original.

    For instance... Microsoft (and others) have made use of BSD's TCP/IP stack, because it's licensed under the BSD (and therefore MS doesn't have to open-source all of their code built off of it like the GPL would require).

    Seems to me that this music license that Glass is critiquing is actually much more like the BSD license than the GPL.

  5. as a musician I think this is ridiculous by metalhed77 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i am a musician, and in a band. I do want to be paid for my music, and I want copyright restrictions, i don't want people to obtain free copies of my work. Why? because I want money. Think of it this way, serious bands need money, because they devote all their time to making music, If my band could do that, we'd be much more productive. Oh sure you could cry that the bands are too rich, well that's the select few that are major bands.

    When you buy an album forget that your paying the RIAA tax, your supporting a band that you love. This does nto mean you should let down the fight against the opressive RIAA and their tactics, but don't let hte music be the casualty in this world. Bands are poor, bands need as much money as they can get to perpetuate themselves unless they don't mind working a dayjob.

    --
    Photos.
    1. Re:as a musician I think this is ridiculous by metalhed77 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      wanna pay $200 for a live ticket? most people don't, so most of the money comes from album sales. Most fans don't ever get to see a band they listen to live, people can casually buy a CD but not go casually to a concert. (well most people dont'). for instance i bought the daft punk CD but will never see them live.

      --
      Photos.
    2. Re:as a musician I think this is ridiculous by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You assume that having professional musicians is a good thing, and that the only way they can make money is through album sales. Neither is necessarily true.

      You're not necessarily right. Personally, I think having professional musicians is a good thing, and since this is so completely subjective, there is no absolute answer.

      Ever hear of live performances? CD's are nice and all, but there's no substitute for a live band playing their hearts out.

      This doesn't scale well -- releasing a song online for mass distribution at 25 per mp3 may earn the artist just as much as a boatload of $200 concert tickets. Simply put, concerts can only hit limited groups of people. In addition, such a system would hurt artists who can make amazing music but have terrible stage fright. And it would hurt hobbiest musicians who compose their work entirely with computers -- stage shows of a person pressing a button on a computer and then standing around while people listen to the song, well, that's not much of a performance, even though it may be a great song.

      I think choice is exactly what we need, and this new license can only help. But I do not think this new license needs to be pushed as the "correct" way to do music. It is only one of many ways, and musicians (and music fans!) should be free to do as they choose.

    3. Re:as a musician I think this is ridiculous by hairybacchus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Just becuase your "art" is useless and mine is functional does not make us any different
      That is an ignorant and biased supposition. Music, theatre, and the visual arts have always served the purpose of elevating people above the dull hum of their everyday lives. Some especially powerful works have even changed the way people thought about themselves and the world around them. They are far from "useless". True talent *is* scarce - just go on MP3.com and listen to any random selection of songs. If one's skill happens to lie in music composition, why should that person not be rewarded for the fruits of her labor? To be a serious musician requires a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice. I don't know where you got the idea that musicians feel they have the "right" to have money thrown at them just because they are musicians - it just isn't true. Only stupid people believe that.
      The difference is that I have to go to work for hours and create art every single working day of the week. You on the other hand are only asked to create art for a few hours every so often. You have ZERO right to make money just because you think you deserve it. You have to earn it just like the rest of us.
      If you think being a successful musician takes "a few hours every so often", then you have never tried. I have to go to work and make stupid and meaningless (but functional) programs and then, when I get home, I have to balance my life between time spent writing music and rehearsing with my band and maintaining my relationships. And if I can turn that into a career that I actually enjoy and actually enriches my life, then more power to me. There will be nothing undeserved about it. People who make money in music most definitely earn it, no matter how deplorable you might find their tastes. If the musical landscape is ugly and vapid it is only because the consumers have made it that way by buying Britney Spears and Limp Bizkit. And hey, man, the RIAA did not force *anything* down *anybody's* throat - they merely offered and people were too lazy to say "No." I'm sorry you're so biased against someone making a profit from music - but it should and will continue to happen. The OML will simply not be adopted by anyone who plans to spend the rest of their lives making music.
    4. Re:as a musician I think this is ridiculous by Troy2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Just becuase your "art" is useless and mine is functional does not make us any different.

      Having gone through 6 years of intense programming, and followed it with 3 years of intense music production, I'm in a somewhat unique position to comment on the above paragraph.

      I agree that programming and music are both art. However, I take serious offense to your comment about music being a "useless" art.

      Are you ready to read?

      I can't write a song that will add any two numbers. I can't write a song that enables the listener to run through corridors and chase other listeners down with rocket launchers.

      I can, however, write a song that helps give a person insight into their relationships with other people. I can write a song that makes someone laugh, or smile.

      At this point, it still might not be so obvious to you that music is important. Why do you think people bother to make music, anyway? Lets look to one of my biggest musical inspirations. Bjork, in a recent interview, talked a little bit about why she began producing solo CD's (at the age of 26 or 27 - she's 35 now). You can watch the entire interview here: damnit, the site couldn't handle the traffic but just in case someone comes through with a mirror, check out http://63.67.107.43/bjork/. I'll have to paraphrase: She explained that very often a book, a song, a movie, or a story, would be exactly what she needed to feel better about something that was bothering her. Something of a magical cure, I guess? She looked at the names of people on CD's and books, and realized how much they had sacrificed just to create their works and have them distributed. All that work just to make her feel better. She set out on a mission to do the same for others, and 4 CD's later she's far along that path.

      I look back on my obsession with programming, and its quite clear to me why I devoted so much time to it - its a perfect creative outlet and a very effective escape from reality. When you're 72 consecutive hours into a coding binge, you're in a different world. The unpredictability of social situations are at a safe distance. You don't think about things like your appearance, your odor, whether or not people like you, whats happening in asian sweatshops, or what sort of evil is being planned in those 12 levels of management above you. You are in control of the world - there's you, your keyboard, mouse, data structures, control statements, functions, registers, libraries, memory, a video card, a sound card, some speakers, and a monitor. There is nothing else. (And people wonder why ego-centrism is a characteristic commen to so many coders, heh)

      I got a job in the industry, and quickly learned that when someone is paying you to code, your creative options are a bit more limited. Unless you're the lead programmer, the best you can hope to do is come up with a creative way to solve whatever problem is being put in front of you. For me, this amount of creative control wasn't enough. It wasn't fun. Programming, which had been my ultimate creative outlet, was now just a chore. Sure I was making money and could pay my rent, but I lived at the office. Whats more, I worked at a computer all day on things related to my job - the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was spend more time at the keyboard working - even if it was on personal projects. There's only so much time one can spend sitting at one of these things. I was no longer able to enjoy programming as I once had, so I returned to college and got back on my parents payroll. (A side note, overaggressive intellectual property clauses in employee contracts make outside-the-job coding projects even more difficult.)

      When you throw something like an intense addiction to programming into the garbage can, there is no escape from reality. You've got to fucking figure it out. This is when books, paintings, music, and other traditional art forms came into my life. They helped! I was trying to deal with the fact that some girl wasn't calling me back or (gasp) responding to my emails, and Bjork sang to me "Give her some time, give her some space", and everything was better. I was sad about something so intangible, that it took Beck's "Mutations" to turn my frown into a grin. I was so upset with everyone in America being so goddamn *motionless* - I wanted to move! So I immersed myself in the aggressive dancefloor rhythms that are collectively known as "Jungle" or "Drum and Bass". I don't suppose you understand the therapeutic value of dancing until you're dripping with sweat?

      A more generic example: Some people simply feel better when they hear a beautiful voice.

      My father used to play classical music for me as a child, and I would pretend to be the conductor (plastic straw in hand, flowing with the beat). I spent some time in high school (coincidentally the same time I began programming) writing music with Cakewalk 2.0 and a midi-based synth workstation (Korg X5). However, music never really stirred me deeply until after I began confronting the reality of my life, in college, on the planet earth.

      The difference is that I have to go to work for hours and create art every single working day of the week. You on the other hand are only asked to create art for a few hours every so often. You have ZERO right to make money just because you think you deserve it. You have to earn it just like the rest of us.

      I've come to realize that, through music, I have the ability to effect people's lives in a positive way - and in such a unique way! I enjoy it immensely, its fufilling for me as well as others, and (fuck you!) its challenging! I'm not Britney Spears - I don't work on music "every so often" - I *live* in my studio. I'm writing music just about every day - to the point where I go through withdrawal when I'm on vacations (like this weekend, for instance).

      Schlockmeisters in LA and New York can cookie-cut and sell over a million pop album's in a matter of months - but that music is fast food garbage. Its filler. Its an advertisement for itself. And for some strange reason, the only thing that ever seems to be gleaned from it is that the most important things in life are sex, money, and being cool. How convenient for the rest of the entertainment industry, which specializes in these products.

      The real problem is, organizations like the RIAA have built up the notion in your (and my, and the whole world's) head that being "creative" is some magical ability that few people possess in any quantity.


      In my entire life, I've met about 10 other people who take music as seriously as I do, and who devote as much time to it as I do. I've met about 10 million other people. Being creative is not a magical ability, you are right - and it could even be argued that making music is not a magical ability. There *is* something special about everyone - but not everyone devotes themselves to music so wholeheartedly that their incomes depend on it. Those who chose to are entitled to do so, though you may believe they are not.

      Nevermind that for hundreds of thousands of years humans have been artistic just fine without the need for superstardom. Today you we taught that musicians/actors/artists/etc. are so special and rare that we must pay a hefty percentage of our GDP to thier masters simply because who knows when such talent will ever been seen on this earth again, right? Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but we are all talented, we are all artists. We can't help it.

      The ones who teach "celebrity" have always been the ones selling it. Most of the "superstar musicians" you're exposed to in American pop culture aren't really musicians anyway - they're puppets. You can't blame musicians for that sick circus.

      Making money off of art is like making money of of breathing. Everybody does it, no one has some "right" because they happen to have asthma. By trying to make a living off of music, you are simply perputrating the notion that music is something that is rare enough or difficult enough to make a living doing. You are contributing to the death of music and humanity's musical soul far more effectivly than any sort of "Open Music License", my friend.


      As I said earlier, everyone has the right to chose their profession, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. Given that this is a country defined by its capitalism, none of us will be able to make any money unless we sell something. Our programming skills, maybe. Our salesmanship. Our unique ability with scissors and hair.

      Both the GPL and OAL licenses are absolutely great for stimulating interest and creativity in the fields they apply to. However, neither will help pay the rent.

      I do plan on releasing some music under the OAL (now that I've heard about it) and when I get back into coding, I'll probably release some code under the GPL too. I've released code before too, you know - before I really knew what the GPL was all about.

      My advice to musicians? Work your fucking heart out and sell the fruits of your labor. If you end up with lots of experiments gone wrong, or just lots of doodles, or you just don't really give a shit about what happens to a particular piece of your music, don't let it sit in your vault - release it under the OAL. Someone, somewhere, will learn something from it. Just make sure you don't plan on using any samples of it in future works for sale :).

  6. Re:Looking for an honest answer by Nurgster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Judging from the critique (I'm yet to read the license itself), the OAL would prevent them from selling CDs.

    THe most important critisizm of the OAL in that article is the whole issues of covers. Even with the GPL, each contributors efforts is acknowledge (They do, after all, retain copyright). That doesn't happen with OAL (apparently).

    Let's say, for example, that composer X writes a song with good lyrics, but a really bad melody. performer Y comes along, keeps the lyrics but writes a much better harmony for the song (take Machineheads cover of 'Message In A Bottle' as an example, not that there's anything wrong with original, I just prefer the cover myself). According to the critique, performer Y would get no credit for the song, but composer X might earn shitloads of money from the popularity of the new version.

    That is a major flaw with the license...

    --
    "Faith is the last resort of a desperate man" - Me
  7. Does this solve the biggest problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The basic problem artists have with the music industry isn't the inability to make music for free. Musicians have always been able to do that. Trading riffs is part of the culture. The problem is the fact that the music cartel won't make the artist's music avaiable without him or her signing over the rights to it.

  8. silly? by s20451 · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Some of Glass' critiques seem a little silly - they're intended goals of the license, not flaws.


    That's not a bug, that's a feature!

    To claim that a critique is "silly" because you disagree with the author's point of view is rather condescending, and does not contribute to meaningful debate. Is the purpose of this license to create a moral imperative to release music for free (much as RMS uses GNU as a platform to argue the immorality of commercial software)? If so, the issues Glass raises merit serious discussion.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  9. Traditionally... by blkros · · Score: 4, Insightful
    music was free, and not copyrighted. Tribal music was for everyone to share. The old folk musicians, union organizers,anarchists, etc., made songs and let anyone use them, and build on them or even change them. Music wasn't about big bucks until the big companies got into it. It sounds like the OAL is trying to steer us back to sharing music, it may not be perfect, but first attempts at complicated stuff usually isn't.
    From the summary of the critique(the page is slashdotted so I didn't read it) it sounds like the critique is not about the method of sharing, but, rather, about the sharing itself. If you don't want to share your stuff--don't. Just don't tell other people that they can't, or shouldn't.

    --
    Damnit, Jim, I'm an anarchist, not a F@#$!^& doctor!
  10. This is an excellent question by abe+ferlman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here is a short critique of Glass's article:

    Glass uses ad hominem attacks against John Perry Barlow, but fails to instruct us in any way as to why Brett Glass is any more credible than John Perry Barlow- in fact Glass strongly urges that anyone looking for legal advice regarding this legal license look elsewhere.

    --
    microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
  11. Re:GNUArt ! by emok · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After discussing it with RMS [stallman.org], we agreed it would be possible:

    I agree with most of RMS's views, and I applaud the GPL. However, why do people give him veto power over their own ideas? I can understand discussing a subject like this with him, since he has probably thought about it more than the rest of us, but I get the idea that many people are unwilling to try an idea unless RMS approves it. As with anything, people need to sift through RMS's ideas and decide for themselves which are gems and which are just BS.

  12. That's not what it's intended for. by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I can't moderate up the AC who replied to this, so I'll just copy his response.

    That isn't what the OAL is meant for. If you want to release a teaser, you use a different license.
    Exactly. Thanks, AC. "Blamanj", I'm guessing that you only read the "critique", not the OAL iteslf, and thus you didn't pick up its intent.

    Bruce

    1. Re:That's not what it's intended for. by blamanj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are correct, I was responding to the critique. But as I read the OAL, it still appears flawed.

      For example, IANAL, but the scope of public performance appears to be completely undefined. If I release the song FOO on a MP3, does public performance mean playback of that particular MP3 only? Does it mean some band can perform the song live as long as the quality of their sound system doesn't exceed that of the original encoding?

      I think this is a good issue, and I commend them for starting a public discussion, but I think it's far to complex to be dealt with satisfactorily in the few paragraphs they have written.

  13. Foul! by Brett+Glass · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Looking at the text of the "story" above, I see that the Slashdot editor who approved the story appended a personal attack on me and what I wrote to the text that I submitted. Do others besides me see this as an abuse of editorial privileges? It seems to me that if this person disagrees with me (which is fine; that's what discussions are all about), he should post his views as comments as everyone else does.

    --Brett Glass

  14. The Price by ahde · · Score: 2, Insightful
    of developing music and software is about the same.


    A $1000 computer with a monitor, CDRW and high speed internet connection (and heaps and heaps of GPL software) runs about the same as a guitar, amp, 4 track and mic. The really big difference is that I don't need all the software that would otherwise cost a bundle if it wasn't free to make my music.


    It scales about the same too. A top 40 album with a producer, engineer, mixer, full band, studio time, etc. runs about the same as a cvs repository, hosting, several computers, office space, QA, etc.

  15. There's no way in hell ... by uebernewby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll ever release my music under this license. Why not?

    grants the worldwide public permission to:

    Modification

    This means, you can mess my song up and release it under the same name. Like hell you can. Remix it if you must and release it under your own name, but don't make me responsible for what you do to it.

    Note that this clause isn't saying the same thing as: you have the right to sample from this track and create a new track from the samples you've made - under your own name, which I'd have no problems with (unless people start sampling complete riffs, which isn't quite my taste), it's saying "redo a track released under this license any way you see fit and then release it as a "fork" of said track." This may be fine for software, but music has a very different dynamic, which I think the EFF people are forgetting. Artist + Track of which integrity has been preserved are much more important in music than it is in software.

    --

    News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
  16. Another Musician/Coder on navigating licenses by ronabop · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I've been a musician for 21 years, a coder for 16 years, and I've worked in (and with) a variety of licenses in that time. Some good, some bad, some indifferent.

    I find music and code to be virtually identical in nature: It is the structured ordering, presentation and manipulation of simple primitives, to create a more complex body of work, so it makes sense to me to have similar licenses.

    Is this kind of license needed for music? Definitely. Just like the coding profession, some pieces, indeed, some jobs, are entirely dependant on using free tools, be they code libraries or sample libraries. As noted, every major operating system today now ships with free (GPL, Q, BSD, or similar) tools and components, which can be copied and distributed without any royalties. Some software products have succeeded in obtaining large market $hare, some have not.

    Those products that have lined the pocket of IT professionals (including mine) were built both with privately owned IP, and public (GPL, Q, BSD etc.) IP. Those that were built strictly with only private or only public IP did not become successful or profitable based on the IP they used... that's a red herring in this discussion. The nature of the license does not dictate the profitability or success of a software, or music, product.

    So what is the impact, if I choose this license, to me? Well, just like the GPL work I've done, it means that others can do what they want.

    Does it prevent me from releasing other work? Of course not. I can OPL/GPL some work, BSD other work, and use a restrictive EULA for other work. Since I'm not a one-hit-wonder kind of guy (I'm a professional, I "publish" a lot), this isn't a problem.

    Is my ability to capture revenue altered by my choice of license, be it in code libraries, or in songs? Of course it is. But it's my choice.

  17. good analogy by abe+ferlman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People just don't understand. I don't mean they don't see it my way- I really mean they don't understand. Most people have never had a serious discussion about property rights and the way that the government grants monopolies to creators with the stated goal of fostering innovation.

    Another more pithy way to put it is this: We don't subsidize the pony express now that mechanical transportation is available.

    The bottom line is scarcity. gnovos is trying to say that some people think it's the talent that's scarce even if copies of their works are free, but that people are wrong and talent is not in fact scarce. This is basically right on the money. If talent *is* scarce, then the music industry needs to find ways to reward talent that make sense, like charging for live performances and other things that can't happen without talent, rather than trying to jealously contain free copies of recordings.

    --
    microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
  18. This analogy does not hold by mjackso1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You also probably signed an agreement when you took your job that released your copyright and designated your creative output as "works for hire". That's great for you! Unfortunately, there are many, many fewer businesses willing to pay a salary for a in-house composer to write music works for hire. Just because you signed away your copyright doesn't mean all programmers do. I know at least one former coworker that signed a deal where he retained rights to all his work.

    "You on the other hand are only asked to create art for a few hours every so often. "

    This is patently false. Most composers are not asked to create their art. They create it and then try to sell it. In circumstances where this doesn't obtain (recording contract, commissioned work), meeting the demands of the request for music is no less arduous than programming (don't try to tell me otherwise; I've done both). Even writing a decent 3 minute pop song is hard work. Much like programming, music does not spring fully formed from a wellspring of creativity. It requires practice (education), good basic themes (design), and editing (debugging). And, if you try it live, unlike programming, you have to be able to reproduce it in real time. Also, unlike programming, it's hard to find someone to compensate you for that time.

    My fundamental objection to your argument has to do with your contempt for musicians and the difficulty they face. How many people write/play music as a day job to support their dreams of being a programmer? How many do the reverse?

    Many people are satisfied to play music as a hobby, for friends or family, or take the occasional weekend warrior gig. For these people, something like the OAL is great. That's fine. Many devote their lives to it, hoping against hope that they'll be able to eke out a meager living. For these people, it would be insane to release under such a license. A statistically insignificant number make piles upon piles of money (though not NEARLY as much as their labels make off of them). For these lucky few, we can hope that they understand that their fans want the joy of sharing the music with their friends, a la the Grateful Dead. The real fact of the matter is that without musicians in the 2nd and 3rd categories, you wouldn't have anything decent to do while you hack away. So don't be a fucking ingrate, dig?

    I do heartily agree with you that everyone is talented, and everyone is an artist. But we all have different talents in different quantities, and talent without hard work is worthless. Hard work takes time, and if you don't get compensated for that time, you don't eat.

    There's no free lunch. Even authors of GPL software are getting money from someone for doing something, or they'd starve.

  19. Re:Not for everything. by mrogers · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In that case, keep your song to yourself. No teenagers with ukeleles will ever hear it, copy it, or mess it up. But if you choose to publish your 'memory' and sell copies of it to teenagers with ukeleles, it will become part of their lives as well as your own: fair game to be copied, parodied and modified by anyone who hears it.

    Or are you saying that other people don't have the right to make songs that reflect their experience of life, just because part of that experience involves your songs?